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Old 12-22-05, 01:10 PM   #1
Jinker
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Nytimes article on undercover cops in critical mass rides

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/ny...rtner=homepage

Mmmm... niiiiice.

I have a generally high opinion of police officers as individuals. What I can't stand, though, are the shifts in focus which have been made over the last few years.

Does a CM ride REALLY merit cops going under cover? C'mon....

If you're ACTUALLY looking to prevent vandalism etc. you'd show up with a positive, visible presence. Undercover cops are just there to collect info on individuals.

This combined with greater numbers of surveillance cameras, wire taps etc etc really makes me wonder if we're moving closer and closer to a dystopian future...

How many people have been hurt/killed because of critical mass rides? Why the crackdown?

-Greg
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Old 12-22-05, 01:21 PM   #2
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Yea I saw that. There is also a video that the cops edited out parts that showed the defendent was not guilty.

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Old 12-22-05, 01:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinker
Why the crackdown?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 - George Orwell
When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always -- do not forget this, Winston -- always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever.
Perhaps?
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Old 12-22-05, 02:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinker
This combined with greater numbers of surveillance cameras, wire taps etc etc really makes me wonder if we're moving closer and closer to a dystopian future...
Actually, it's more like a return to the past of the 1960s -- complete with agents provocateur.
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Old 12-22-05, 02:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MicheleC
complete with agents provocateur.
I had to look that one up, though it's fairly obvious now that I did.

Noun 1. provocateur - a secret agent who incites suspected persons to commit illegal acts
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Old 12-22-05, 02:06 PM   #6
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This is an outrage! This means that the Movement is growing in power. The hedgemonic order is frightened. They will begin to really fight soon. Then will come victory. Peace.


There used to be a thing about asking if someone is a cop and them having to answer correctly.
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Old 12-22-05, 02:09 PM   #7
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This is awesome. I always try to give my posts a good once over to edit out the overly bombastic rhetoric. I don't need to worry so much. Obviously I won't offend anyone here with my pro-bike, anti-car culture, and other biases.

I get the impression that most folks reading the advocacy forum are loons, just like me.

-Greg
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Old 12-22-05, 02:20 PM   #8
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A disaffected conspiracy-minded activist video expert makes assertions that the Times picks up and reports as though the assertions are a forgone conclusion. Great minds think alike, or rather, birds of a feather flock together.
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Old 12-22-05, 02:22 PM   #9
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Kinda makes you wonder who is reading Bike Forums?
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean that they are NOT out to get you.
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Old 12-22-05, 02:41 PM   #10
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Nobody spots the guy with a black MTB with POLICE written on it during the rides? Easy to spot....

:-)

Really, what are they worried about exactly? They think we are all a big biker gang. What are we all hard people who go around busting up coffee shops?

God forbid anyone disagree with the president and his war.
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Old 12-23-05, 06:33 AM   #11
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A large trunk bag can conceal a bomb just as well as a backpack does.
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Old 12-23-05, 09:28 AM   #12
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My favourite line form the article is the spokesman for the police who said that one of the the reasons theywere there was to "protect free speech".

"THIS IS THE POLICE!! YOU INTERRUPTED THAT GENTLEMAN, YOU MUST LET EVERYBODY HAVE A TURN AT EXPRESSING THEIR DISPLEASURE AT THE GOVERNMENT! THIS IS THE POLICE!"
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Old 12-23-05, 09:59 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by EricDJ
... God forbid anyone disagree with the president and his war.
And this has what exactly to do with cycling advocacy?
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Old 12-23-05, 10:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinker
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/ny...rtner=homepage

Mmmm... niiiiice.

I have a generally high opinion of police officers as individuals. What I can't stand, though, are the shifts in focus which have been made over the last few years.

Does a CM ride REALLY merit cops going under cover? C'mon....

If you're ACTUALLY looking to prevent vandalism etc. you'd show up with a positive, visible presence. Undercover cops are just there to collect info on individuals.

This combined with greater numbers of surveillance cameras, wire taps etc etc really makes me wonder if we're moving closer and closer to a dystopian future...


-Greg
The CM rides take place on public streets. What reasonable expectation of privacy exists?
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Old 12-23-05, 12:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savas
A large trunk bag can conceal a bomb just as well as a backpack does.
Critical Mass = NONVIOLENT Civil Disobedience. Legitimate domestic dissent is not terrorism, either. If they're worried about bombs, they should be checking the several million cars and trucks that flow through NYC each day, not Critical Mass riders.
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Old 12-23-05, 12:37 PM   #16
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Not a big fan of CM but undercover officers is getting a bit silly I think. Someone should make a TV show about Undercover police officers at CM. Don Johnson could be the dashing and handsome cop and Cheech Marin could be his dumpy partner who rides a recumbent and gets all the laughs.
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Old 12-23-05, 12:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randya
Critical Mass = NONVIOLENT Civil Disobedience.
There's no distinction these days. I went to a peaceful protest (non-bike) that was answered by a brute squad, threats, tazers, and injured civilians. It was ridiculous. The funny thing was watching the evening news; you'd think the police were putting down an armed rebellion. It's amazing how facts can be twisted with a little bit of editing. Case in point.

Last edited by vegcrow; 12-23-05 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 12-23-05, 01:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Savas
A large trunk bag can conceal a bomb just as well as a backpack does.


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Old 12-23-05, 01:07 PM   #19
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These pics are from halfway around the world and prove nothing, other than sure, it can be done. Not a justification for the NYPD singling out Critical Mass for harassment, intimidation and provocation; nor for the presence of NYPD undercover cops on Critical Mass rides.
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Old 12-23-05, 02:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
My favourite line form the article is the spokesman for the police who said that one of the the reasons theywere there was to "protect free speech".

"THIS IS THE POLICE!! YOU INTERRUPTED THAT GENTLEMAN, YOU MUST LET EVERYBODY HAVE A TURN AT EXPRESSING THEIR DISPLEASURE AT THE GOVERNMENT! THIS IS THE POLICE!"
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-23-05, 02:44 PM   #21
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LOL...
...and for those of you who mighta seen some football jerseys lurkin'...

I don't trust anyone in a football jersey
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Old 12-23-05, 02:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randya
These pics are from halfway around the world and prove nothing, other than sure, it can be done.
Eh, that proves nothing at all. For all we know, the cyclist got fed up with motorists and his head exploded.
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Old 12-23-05, 05:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savas
A large trunk bag can conceal a bomb just as well as a backpack does.
The book Bicycles in War by Martin Caidin, details the prowess of the Vietnamese VC (Vehicular Cyclists) in that regard. Lets just say that bike theft was punished instantly. And not as much of the bicycle was left afterwards.
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Old 12-23-05, 06:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randya
These pics are from halfway around the world and prove nothing, other than sure, it can be done. Not a justification for the NYPD singling out Critical Mass for harassment, intimidation and provocation; nor for the presence of NYPD undercover cops on Critical Mass rides.
"The police are not here to create disorder; they're here to preserve disorder." Mayor Richard Daly.
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Old 12-23-05, 06:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artkansas
The book Bicycles in War by Martin Caidin, details the prowess of the Vietnamese VC (Vehicular Cyclists) in that regard. Lets just say that bike theft was punished instantly. And not as much of the bicycle was left afterwards.
Was that the same Martin Caidin that wrote a bunch of mediocre science fiction?
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