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Old 01-03-06, 06:30 AM   #1
ItsJustMe
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Are cars making people into sociopaths?

Via TreeHugger.com:
The Anti-Social Bastards in our Midst

George Monbiot of the Guardian [...] suggests that ".the extreme libertarianism now beginning to take hold here begins on the road. When you drive, society becomes an obstacle. Pedestrians, bicycles, traffic calming, speed limits, the law: all become a nuisance to be wished away. The more you drive, the more bloody-minded and individualistic you become.
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Old 01-03-06, 07:47 AM   #2
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Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
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Old 01-03-06, 08:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuckertonRR
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
As well as the rest of posts consisting of self -righteous OT cager bashing and moralizing about corrupt car culture.

At least take this OT moralizing and preaching about the evils of everybody else's bad habits to more appropriate forums such as:

Foo - for Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

Politics & Religion - Discussion of two very hot topics, politics and religion.

Jokes & Humor - Life sucks without humor. Post your best (and worst) jokes here.
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Old 01-03-06, 08:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TuckertonRR
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
Maybe. I only hang out in Commuting and Advocacy. I thought this was interesting, though I don't agree with him. Mods of course will move it if appropriate.
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Old 01-03-06, 08:26 AM   #5
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The tirades against "neo-libertarianism", etc. were hot air. OTH, the quotes from Jeremy Clarkson and reports of vandalism to speed cameras were cautionary. I think it worth following up, and wouldn't have noticed if the post had been under Politics.
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Old 01-03-06, 08:35 AM   #6
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I wouldn't call it libertarianism, with regard to bicycles, its unbridled arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war.

Car drivers are the epitome of its "all mine and I want it now". They have to have the biggest, fastest car, to impress everyone about how they've made it big, reluctance to share the road with anyone, especially cyclists since, of course, they are the coolest, most important people in the world, and its a class thing because they percieve cyclists as street people or losers who can't afford a car.

Well, I guess its just a microcosm of the way we treat the rest of the world. Our foriegn policy is driven by arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war. We have learned well from our leaders.
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Old 01-03-06, 10:13 AM   #7
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The original quote does seem to hit a large number of nails square on the head!
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Old 01-03-06, 10:28 AM   #8
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To be clear, I don't believe at least half of what this guy says, but I do think he has some good points. Something scary DOES happen to many people when they get into a car. People who would be very courteous in line at the supermarket can become practically (or actually) homicidal. I think it's worth thinking about why, and keeping the phenomenon in mind when thinking about advocating cycling rights, and when confronting drivers.
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Old 01-03-06, 10:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho
Car drivers are the epitome of its "all mine and I want it now". They have to have the biggest, fastest car, to impress everyone about how they've made it big, reluctance to share the road with anyone, especially cyclists since, of course, they are the coolest, most important people in the world, and its a class thing because they percieve cyclists as street people or losers who can't afford a car.
Does this obvious overly generalized tirade apply equally to drivers of Priuses by Toyota, or Mini Coopers by BMW or the Chrysler PT Cruiser? Also, I might ask, does your generalization apply also to cyclists when they get behind the steering wheel of a car? Or, as so often happens with fanatics, are you exaggerating a bit?
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Old 01-03-06, 10:49 AM   #10
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I (a big anti-car fanatic) don't believe that cars make people into socioaths. I believe that a few people express their psychopathology through automobiles. Others choose guns, religion, politics and, yes, bicycles.
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Old 01-03-06, 10:50 AM   #11
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Well last week the Department for Transport published the results of the study it had commissioned into the efficacy of its speed cameras(3). It found that the number of drivers speeding down the roads where fixed cameras had been installed fell by 70%, and the number exceeding the speed limit by more than 15mph dropped by 91%. As a result, 42% fewer people were killed or seriously injured in those places than were killed or injured on the same stretches before the cameras were erected.
Another reason to get a helmet cam?
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Old 01-03-06, 10:50 AM   #12
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Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.

I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute.

Thanks

Charles
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Old 01-03-06, 11:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webist
Does this obvious overly generalized tirade apply equally to drivers of Priuses by Toyota, or Mini Coopers by BMW or the Chrysler PT Cruiser? Also, I might ask, does your generalization apply also to cyclists when they get behind the steering wheel of a car? Or, as so often happens with fanatics, are you exaggerating a bit?
Apologies. I took for granted that most on this board were sophisticated enough to appreciate the concept of rhetorical hyperbole, but apparently not. So, in order not to offend you or others, let me be more precise. Everywhere in my post where I wrote car driver, or driver, substitute "aggressive, law breaking automobile drivers with no regard for the safety of themselves and others".
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Old 01-03-06, 11:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.

I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute.

Thanks

Charles
What? Anybody got a BS translator handy?
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Old 01-03-06, 11:30 AM   #15
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I really wasn't trying to troll with this posting. I genuinely think it's interesting to think about. However, it appears that some people are unfamiliar with the concept of discussing different points of view without resorting to yelling and hyperbole.
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Old 01-03-06, 11:37 AM   #16
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+10 Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho
I wouldn't call it libertarianism, with regard to bicycles, its unbridled arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war.

Car drivers are the epitome of its "all mine and I want it now". They have to have the biggest, fastest car, to impress everyone about how they've made it big, reluctance to share the road with anyone, especially cyclists since, of course, they are the coolest, most important people in the world, and its a class thing because they percieve cyclists as street people or losers who can't afford a car.

Well, I guess its just a microcosm of the way we treat the rest of the world. Our foriegn policy is driven by arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war. We have learned well from our leaders.
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Old 01-03-06, 11:41 AM   #17
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If it was posted on a car interest board it would be trolling.

But here, on a cycling advocacy board, it is an opening for good dialoge, as dangerous drivers are about the #1 concern of me and many other cyclists and would be cyclists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.

I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute.

Thanks

Charles
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Old 01-03-06, 11:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TuckertonRR
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?

This has been a topic in the car free forum. For my lengthy wordy response to this topic go to this link:

Please explain the contempt (thread)...
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Old 01-03-06, 11:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.

I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute.

Thanks

Charles
I agree with your comparison. The anonymity of the net lets us say things that we would probably not say to someone face to face (although, when I post, before I press "submit" I try to step back and ask myself, would I say this directly to a person?).

Unfortunately, the anonymity of driving a car allows us physically assualt and endanger others in ways that we would never do (I hope) outside of a car. The latter is much more dangerous.
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Old 01-03-06, 12:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by buzzman
This has been a topic in the car free forum. For my lengthy wordy response to this topic go to this link:

Please explain the contempt (thread)...
Your "lengthy wordy response" was beautiful.
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Old 01-03-06, 12:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Roody
I (a big anti-car fanatic) don't believe that cars make people into socioaths. I believe that a few people express their psychopathology through automobiles. Others choose guns, religion, politics and, yes, bicycles.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish by bringing common sense into this argument?
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Old 01-03-06, 01:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by chipcom
What? Anybody got a BS translator handy?
Yea, but all it ever spits out is gibberish.

Actually, I see his point. How much have everyone here said in anoymity which they would not have said to someone's face? Same goes with the anoymity stemming from driving. When people cannot interact with another person (or animal, for that matter) they can lose the distinction between "person" and "thing." This allows for abuse (either physical or verbal) which would not be proper between two people to occur as if the subject was an inanimate object. Sounds like a worthy sociology paper to me.
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Old 01-03-06, 02:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
Yea, but all it ever spits out is gibberish.

Actually, I see his point. How much have everyone here said in anoymity which they would not have said to someone's face? Same goes with the anoymity stemming from driving. When people cannot interact with another person (or animal, for that matter) they can lose the distinction between "person" and "thing." This allows for abuse (either physical or verbal) which would not be proper between two people to occur as if the subject was an inanimate object. Sounds like a worthy sociology paper to me.
LOL, Chipcom kinda makes my point. Seriously, I am not trying to put out troll bait myself. I am interested in writing a paper and I am looking for people's felt impressions. This is more a psych paper than sociology. I am looking for input on all sorts of fora, all over the net, not just this one.

Thx

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Old 01-03-06, 02:52 PM   #24
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It's not the cars, it the "rat race". Rush rush ! Nobody has any patience anymore.

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Old 01-03-06, 03:07 PM   #25
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No, a certain number of people are already Sociopaths and some of these people drive, more people on the road, more sociopaths driving, not more people being turned into sociopaths. Trust me if everyone had to ride you'd notice all of the cycling sociopaths too. There just currently aren't enough of them on the road yet for us to notice.
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