Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-03-06, 10:10 AM   #1
Portis
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Home alone
Bikes: Trek 4300 X 2. Trek 1000, Trek 6000
Posts: 6,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just watched an interesting film called Grizzly Man. I started a thread about it in books and movies but I soon realized that there is a relationship between this film and cycling.

In the documentary, Tim Treadwell lives with bears in Alaska for 15 seasons before he is eventually eaten by one of them. It is a very stirring film, that really caused me to think about the relationship between real danger and perceived danger.

Many people were interviewed in the film and said he got what he deserved. I pretty much agree, because I think living with Bears and walking among them is very dangerous. But I never lived with them for 15 years. So what do I know?

I also know a lot of people that don't ride and consider cycling very dangerous. Some are even in my own family. It is scary to watch people simplify a person's death by saying they got what they deserved. Sure it seems like Tim Treadwell deserved to be eaten by bears to you and me. However we didn't spend thousands and thousands of harmless hours with the bears either.

Much like spending thousands of hours on a bike before a motorist takes what used to be your safe and healthy acivity and turns it into something that appears foolish and dangerous. It just takes the one incident and your legacy can be tarnished forever. Like i stated in the other thread, it is very scary to think of people speaking publicly (or privately for that matter) about you and saying you got what you deserved because you were being foolish.

I know that most people wouldn't say this about a cyclist, but don't kid yourself. I bet you can think of someone right now that would probably say that about you if you were killed. I can think of a few in my own family that might. For some reason, the thought of that is far more frightening than the thought of being killed.

Last edited by Portis; 01-03-06 at 11:37 AM.
Portis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 10:25 AM   #2
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In many ways they are similar. Bears and cars are both so much bigger than you are that if they want to hurt you then you have little chance.

BUT:

I have never heard of a motorist deciding (rightly or wrongly) that a cyclist was a danger to her cub (child) and taking action on it.

YET:

It does seem that somes a motorist decides that cyclists are invading their turf and taking action on it.

There is one other thing that is rather similar, but not exact. With bears it can depend a lot on the kind of bear. Fooling with Grizzlys is just stupid. They take down Elks for food. A man would make a nice snack. The kind of bears in the lower 48 are entirely different. It might be rather similar as to the kind of roads one rides. I sure would consider riding in the main lanes of a freeway dangerous (a nice wide shoulder is a different story).

Perhaps one could even consider the drivers in different parts of the U.S. differetn kinds of bears. Some fairly safe, others pretty dangerous.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 10:28 AM   #3
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the statistics of people who ride on the road and live is much better than the people who live among bears and live. At least the statistics I have seen say that on average cycling is a safe activity.
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 10:36 AM   #4
eofelis 
The Rock Cycle
 
eofelis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Western Colorado
Bikes: Salsa Vaya Ti, Specialized Ruby, Gunnar Sport, Motobecane Fantom CXX, Jamis Dragon, Novara Randonee x2
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Several years ago I went to Laramie WY with a friend to see Tim Treadwell talk about the bears he was studying. It was an interesting talk, he seemed a bit eccentric, but he felt very passionate about the bears, perhaps similiar to the way some of us cyclists feel about our sport..... maybe he tought the risks he took were worth it to him.
__________________
Gunnar Sport
Specialized Ruby
Salsa Vaya Ti
Novara Randonee x2
Motobecane Fantom CXX
Jamis Dakar XCR
eofelis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 11:21 AM   #5
Daily Commute
Ride the Road
 
Daily Commute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Posts: 4,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe this explains why bears only ride bicycles in tents on ropes high above the ground.
Daily Commute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 11:30 AM   #6
ghettocruiser
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dropmachine.com
Bikes:
Posts: 4,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe this question should have been a poll.

So far, when bears see me coming they run.

Cars don't usually see me coming.
ghettocruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 01:03 PM   #7
Helmet Head
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes:
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
The kind of bears in the lower 48 are entirely different.
The black bears found in California (Yosemite), Oregon, etc. are relatively harmless, but the browns/grizzlies in Wyoming (Yellowstone) and Montana (Glacier) have been known to "snack" on humans all too often.
Helmet Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 02:10 PM   #8
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
The black bears found in California (Yosemite), Oregon, etc. are relatively harmless, but the browns/grizzlies in Wyoming (Yellowstone) and Montana (Glacier) have been known to "snack" on humans all too often.
Sorry, my bad, forgot about the grizzly population in Montana. Also agree on the relatively. Actually on the one hand I've seen black bears put up with quite a lot from humans. On the other I've also seen their strength. If you get a black bear angry you are apt to die or at least be hurt very badly.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 02:17 PM   #9
Treespeed
Warning:Mild Peril
 
Treespeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle Refugee in Los Angeles
Bikes: Cilo, Surly Pacer, Kona Fire Mountain w/Bob Trailer, Scattante
Posts: 3,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think this is a question of education and experience. I've hiked in Grizzly country in Alaska, but I was prepared and didn't go hiking towards the one grizzly I did see. Same as when most of us ride, stay out of the door zones, don't aggravate aggressive drivers, etc. A better analogy to hugging a bear would be riding on an urban interstate. Though I think the OP is right that many folks would consider riding in any traffic analogous to poking a bear and that we will all eventually get what is coming to us. It's pretty sad.
__________________
Non semper erit aestas.
Treespeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 05:28 PM   #10
atbman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds UK
Bikes:
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Heard a talk at my advocacy group's agm by a Tierra del Fuego - Alaska rider. Leaving aside the headwind for the first 1000 miles, he was advised to make a noise while travelling thro' bear country in the mountains so that they would hear him and move away.

Didn't quite work when he was doing about 45/50mph down off the Rockies and found a grizzly mother bear and cub(s) in front of him as he rounded a bend. Decided not to make a noise and zipped through the group. Said he left brick-shaped objects behind him for next few hundred yards
atbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 06:11 PM   #11
Cyclaholic
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
 
Cyclaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Bikes: several
Posts: 4,269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Living among bears is just like practicing vehicular cycling. Sure, you take all the precautions and behave in what you think is a safe and predictable way but all it takes is one miscalculation by either you or a driver and only then you realise just what the difference is between a 150 - 300lb human body on a bike at 15 - 25 mph, and a 2500 - 3000 lb vehichle at 45+ mph, but then it's too late.
Cyclaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-06, 07:36 PM   #12
2manybikes
Dog is my co-pilot
 
2manybikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Bikes: 2 many
Posts: 15,563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Commute
Maybe this explains why bears only ride bicycles in tents on ropes high above the ground.

it must be !!
2manybikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-06, 11:38 AM   #13
foible
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From what I read Tim Treadwell had more in common with daredevils than scientists. To make a bike analogy, he's like a kid riding his bmx off a roof. I would much rather be compared to any of the nameless but non-eaten bear researchers that take proper safety precautions.
foible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-06, 12:12 PM   #14
Portis
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Home alone
Bikes: Trek 4300 X 2. Trek 1000, Trek 6000
Posts: 6,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by foible
From what I read Tim Treadwell had more in common with daredevils than scientists. To make a bike analogy, he's like a kid riding his bmx off a roof. I would much rather be compared to any of the nameless but non-eaten bear researchers that take proper safety precautions.
Good reply.
Portis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 08:21 AM   #15
pseudobrit
1.9lb/in
 
pseudobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Susquehanna shoreline
Bikes: LeMond, CAAD9/1
Posts: 1,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L.
I think the statistics of people who ride on the road and live is much better than the people who live among bears and live. At least the statistics I have seen say that on average cycling is a safe activity.
I think a sample size of one for the "people living with bears" poll is a bit low.

I mean, 15 years seems like a good amount of time out there without getting killed. And it just so happens that the average is now 15 years. So if the average person plays with bears, they could statistically expect to spend an accumulated 15 years doing so before getting killed. Nothing to worry about, right?
pseudobrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 09:19 AM   #16
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Grizzly Man, a Werner Herzog film, i think. What if Aguirre had to deal with bears (did he?)

I try to stay out of the bear zone!

I've run into two bear so far while bicycling, a black bear this year out in the way-backwoods of the Olympic peninsula, and a big brown sow in Montana once... I just started whoopin and hollering to clear the track. They've been less trouble than traffic for me personally so far.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 01:55 PM   #17
Steele-Bike
RAGBRAI. Need I say more?
 
Steele-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Branch, Iowa USA
Bikes: 1998 Mongoose NX7.1, 2008 Kona Jake, GT singlespeed (year unknown).
Posts: 868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There have actually been bear sightings in Iowa in recent years...mountain lions, too. I reckon the hogs outta watch out.

How about hugging a bear in traffic?
Steele-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 03:28 PM   #18
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudobrit
I think a sample size of one for the "people living with bears" poll is a bit low.

I mean, 15 years seems like a good amount of time out there without getting killed. And it just so happens that the average is now 15 years. So if the average person plays with bears, they could statistically expect to spend an accumulated 15 years doing so before getting killed. Nothing to worry about, right?
Yeah, I guess 100% of people who lived with bears in our study died doesn't sound as impressive if you say there was only 1 person in the study.

Personally I have a lot more experience cycling than living with bears so I guess my "gut" feeling is cycling is safer as cycling actually gives you a health benefit. I suppose living with bears could give you a health benefit to come too think of it depending on how fast you could run.
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 04:40 PM   #19
2manybikes
Dog is my co-pilot
 
2manybikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Bikes: 2 many
Posts: 15,563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
It's more dangerous to hug a bear riding in the road.

Was the bear taking the whole lane? Bears have rights too!!

Was he a VBC? (vehicular bear cyclist) not to be confused with a bare vehicular cyclist. That sounds dangerous too.
2manybikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 04:45 PM   #20
Portis
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Home alone
Bikes: Trek 4300 X 2. Trek 1000, Trek 6000
Posts: 6,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L.
I suppose living with bears could give you a health benefit to come too think of it depending on how fast you could run.
Reminds me of the two guys that were camping in Yosemite one time. A huge Grizzly came rolling into their camp with hardly any warning. One of the guys immediately reached into his tent and pulled out his tennis shoes. The other guy said, "what the hell are you doing? You can't outrun that bear." He looked up and said, " I don't have to. All I have to do is outrun you!"
Portis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 09:18 PM   #21
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400
Posts: 2,988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Here's what we do with bears in WI. A friend of mine shot this in Sept., her first bear 535 Lb
dedhed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-06, 09:39 PM   #22
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steele-Bike
There have actually been bear sightings in Iowa in recent years...mountain lions, too. I reckon the hogs outta watch out.
The real deal Lions will be returning to Iowa City but not until Nov 8, 2008. Mark that date down; the Lions will be looking to feast on Iowa Hawks.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-06, 11:03 AM   #23
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedhed
Here's what we do with bears in WI. A friend of mine shot this in Sept., her first bear 535 Lb
Was there supposed to be a picture or was this a polar bear? In which case hunting at the zoo can get you in big trouble .
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-06, 01:03 AM   #24
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400
Posts: 2,988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L.
Was there supposed to be a picture or was this a polar bear? In which case hunting at the zoo can get you in big trouble .
It wouldn't let me post a html doc. so I had to send it from home from work try again.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MVC-021S.JPG (41.8 KB, 10 views)
dedhed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-06, 02:07 AM   #25
budster
beginner
 
budster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Somerset, NJ, USA
Bikes: Trek 800, Gary Fisher Advance, Trek 2300 Pro
Posts: 760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I heard that if you're hiking (or biking) in grizzly country, that you should attach numerous tiny bells to your clothing, so the bears will hear you coming.

I've also heard that you should be on the alert for grizzly bear signs along the trail, such as pawprints, trees where they have sharpened their claws, or poop. Grizzly bear poop is easy to identify: it has lots of tiny bells in it.






budster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:18 PM.