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  1. #1
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    You've gone out for a bike ride and come across this street and bicycle accomodation. Where do you position yourself? slight uphill grade, traffic is moving at about 30, not a lot of traffic.

    Where do you position your bike? Why? Is there an ambiguous lane position on this street, and how would you defend your choice of default lateral lane position? Is it realistic?

    (picture was taken during an actual bicycle ride scenario this afternoon. The pertex didn't keep me dry today.)
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    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  2. #2
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    I would probably be at the front wheel of the bicycle diagram. Well away from car doors, but out of the flow of car traffic.

  3. #3
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    I would be just to the right of the line, left of the little crease, but since this is an SC puzzler I imagine I'd have to be out in the lane, centrish of course, paying more attention to what is coming up behind me than what is in front of me so I can move back into the BL when traffic approaches...or am I even allowed in the BL at all?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    Just to the left of that little crease, in the bike lane.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  5. #5
    Veni, Vidi, Vomiti SteveE's Avatar
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    It looks like there might be a car blocking the bike lane up ahead. Probably not all that far down the road. If so, then I would start to adjust my path so that I was clearly in the roadway before I reached the car. My approach is to make sure that I don't have to make any sudden movements in to traffic. So I always look ahead and make sure that I can pass any stopped vehicle without having to either stop or dart out into traffic.

    If there's no car in the lane ahead, I would ride just to the right of the white bike lane stripe, taking up as much of the lane without getting into the car lane.
    "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ...'holy *****...what a ride!'"

  6. #6
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    See the arrow in the bike lane? If I was on a two-wheeled bike I'd aim for the left point. On my three-wheeler I'd still aim for it, but my left wheel would be a little further left.

    I have no problems with door zone issues as I keep an eye on the parked cars and stay in the left portion of the bike lane. It's really not so difficult to avoid door zones that you must practice any kind of center lane bias stuff. After all, many streets are so narrow you are in the door zone when you drive your car. It's not the huge death trap the A&S forum makes it sound.
    ~Diane
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    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  7. #7
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    probably in the bike lane, out of the door zone

    I consider myself VC but I'm not anti-bike-lanes if they're there and they're clean/safe/out of the door zone

  8. #8
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Maybe its perspective but it looks like the lane pass the double yellow's too narrow for a car going the other way. I'd be riding there then.

  9. #9
    Older I get, Better I was velonomad's Avatar
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    My answer is based on my theory that most motorists drive with some tunnel vision. IMO thier field of view ( and center of concentration) is between the centerline and the fog line. however I think a bicycle is an unusual enough object to a motorist that they notice it when it is close to thier field of view. ( same theory as to why highway signs are bright colors and business signs often have bright or flashing lights on them.
    As in most situations where a bikelane or smooth paved shoulder is provided I ride about 12 inches to the right of the whiteline.I want overtaking motorists to know I there, without having to interupt the flow of traffic. If I am too far from the travel lane I will
    be out of their field of view and if they turn right they may not see me. Secondly I am approaching parallel parked cars, I have enough room to clear doors no issue there . However a motorist pulling out into the travel lane isn't likely to be looking in the bike lane for an oncoming bicycle as much as they will look at the travel lane for an oncoming car. again I want to be close to the travel lane so that I am in thier field of view.

  10. #10
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    I would get to the far left and ride towards oncoming traffic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
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  11. #11
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Sort of like this - (well, it was the best artwork I could quickly find)

    Last edited by DnvrFox; 01-15-06 at 06:38 AM.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  12. #12
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    The opposite side, Slvoid, is a narrow traffic lane and a 4 foot bicycle accomodation, next to a sidewalk, without any driveways or parked cars on that side. 1 street entrance on the opposite side in about a 3/4 mile stretch.

    at least you're still in the bike lane, Denvrfox.....
    Last edited by Bekologist; 01-15-06 at 10:37 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  13. #13
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Between the line and the crease, just to the left of the front tire in the stencil.

  14. #14
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    See the arrow in the bike lane? If I was on a two-wheeled bike I'd aim for the left point. On my three-wheeler I'd still aim for it, but my left wheel would be a little further left.

    I have no problems with door zone issues as I keep an eye on the parked cars and stay in the left portion of the bike lane. It's really not so difficult to avoid door zones that you must practice any kind of center lane bias stuff. After all, many streets are so narrow you are in the door zone when you drive your car. It's not the huge death trap the A&S forum makes it sound.
    I disagree on the door zone. I've only been hit three times in over 40 years of cycling, and they have all been doorings. The first and worst occurred when I was about 13, I learned a big lesson about riding in the door zone that day. I sprained both my wrists when I went down, bent the frame of my prized new Peugeot, and if there had been any traffic coming I would have been toast. Hitting a door on a bicycle is a lot different that doing it with a motor vehicle. Dooring accidents are more common than you think, as most dooring accidents go unreported. And these days, it's a lot more difficult to see into the parked cars to determine whether a person is in the car, due to the increased use of tinted reflective glass treatments and high back head rests in most new cars. I should think that the low profile of the trike would also make it harder to see into vehicles, and I would be even more cautious if I were riding a recumbant of any type.

  15. #15
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    I'd ride just right of the stripe.

    But I'd pull out into the traffic lane, about center of it, when approaching an intersection.

    I'd also move left if I saw a driver waiting to pull out of a sidestreet or driveway, if there was a chance that he was having trouble seeing me over there.

    I would consider this to be vehicular cycling. Would you?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  16. #16
    Recovering Retro-grouch CRUM's Avatar
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    Having been doored several times when I was younger, I would be just inside the white line maybe a foot or so. Being doored really really hurts.
    Keep it 'tween the ditches

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  17. #17
    Gatoraid powered engine 2wheeledsoul's Avatar
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    Speed at around 30 and very low traffic, and with a poorly maintained bike lane (as in the creases and cracks to catch wheels in) with parked cars in it, and one in the distance parked further away from the curb than the others (never know when a car will throw a door open or pull out in front of you)... I think I'de be better off taking the regular lane. Looks like a cloudy day, too, so I'de fire up the lights.
    Yeah. Why hasn't Serge tossed his two pennies in yet?

  18. #18
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheeledsoul
    Speed at around 30 and very low traffic, and with a poorly maintained bike lane (as in the creases and cracks to catch wheels in) with parked cars in it, and one in the distance parked further away from the curb than the others (never know when a car will throw a door open or pull out in front of you)... I think I'de be better off taking the regular lane. Looks like a cloudy day, too, so I'de fire up the lights.
    Yeah. Why hasn't Serge tossed his two pennies in yet?
    Actually the whole road is not very well maintained, not just the bike lane. I think that crease on bike line looks worse then it actually is. The one on the road is by far worse. If you take the regular lane, you have far greater chance of crashing because of the one on the road, not the bike lane. As for the car, it looks like it's either pulling out, or is trying to parallel park.
    I would ride in the bike lane, between the crease and the white lane.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
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  19. #19
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheeledsoul
    Speed at around 30 and very low traffic, and with a poorly maintained bike lane (as in the creases and cracks to catch wheels in)
    I can only wish for roads as nice as that bike lane around here, especially this time of year!
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  20. #20
    Warning:Mild Peril Treespeed's Avatar
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    I'd be in the just to the right of the white line, but signalling to move over as I would most likely be making the left to go over the Fremont bridge and up Dexter, and I always found that it was easier to start moving over while it was one lane instead of the three it opens up into at the intersection. Actually it's a bit of silly bike laneage, as the majority of bike traffic is heading either left or straight so the bike lane ends soon and the bike lane sets you up on the far left of left turning traffic which never made sense to me. The other point to make is that this area (Fremont) sees a ton of bike traffic and motorists are quite used to seeing cyclists in the bike lanes and merging into traffic from the nearby Burke-Gilman trail. So motorists are used to a variety of lane positions from the gutter bunnies, the child trailer haulers, and the fully kitted roadies. It's not in the OP's question, but driver tolerance of cyclist lane choice variables makes a big difference in having options of where to place yourself.
    Non semper erit aestas.

  21. #21
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    a ways out the bike lane does end, well shy of the Fremont intersection now, Treespeed, creating a full use of lane scenario closer to the bridge, with signage indicating 'bikes allowed full use of lane. I think the end of the bike lane stripe shows up in the picture-


    However, the post's question about lane position doesn't consider any future lane positioning, but the immediate road conditions facing the bicyclist. Forward thinking is always good, but the Fremont intersection is well away enough as to be not considerable for the sake of Serge's Puzzler #1.

    Good eye on the street identification though!!
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  22. #22
    Gatoraid powered engine 2wheeledsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
    Actually the whole road is not very well maintained, not just the bike lane. I think that crease on bike line looks worse then it actually is. The one on the road is by far worse. If you take the regular lane, you have far greater chance of crashing because of the one on the road, not the bike lane. As for the car, it looks like it's either pulling out, or is trying to parallel park.
    I would ride in the bike lane, between the crease and the white lane.
    Yeah, that crack in the middle of the road seriously blows. But the place just left of the BL stripe looks smooth enough; and riding there gives plenty of dodging room. Like Chip said, plan for Murphy.

    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    I can only wish for roads as nice as that bike lane around here, especially this time of year!
    Ditto that! The few 'bike lanes' we have around here are the suck. Too narrow, full of trash, potholes, and parked cars.

  23. #23
    Warning:Mild Peril Treespeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    a ways out the bike lane does end, well shy of the Fremont intersection now, Treespeed, creating a full use of lane scenario closer to the bridge, with signage indicating 'bikes allowed full use of lane. I think the end of the bike lane stripe shows up in the picture-


    However, the post's question about lane position doesn't consider any future lane positioning, but the immediate road conditions facing the bicyclist. Forward thinking is always good, but the Fremont intersection is well away enough as to be not considerable for the sake of Serge's Puzzler #1.

    Good eye on the street identification though!!
    Well in that case, if we are just talking about the here and now, so to speak, I would be riding right on top of that bike lane marker. Good to hear they've put in the, "bikes allowed full use of lane" signage. That's the kind of simple motorist education I'd love to see more of in all cities and especially at merging points like the busy Fremont intersection.
    Non semper erit aestas.

  24. #24
    holyrollin' FlatTop's Avatar
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    I'm surprised to learn that so many here feel that the pictured street/bike lane is poorly maintained.

    In the context of my riding and driving, that would be a wide, smooth boulevard.

    My front wheel would be deadcenter on the point of the arrow, but I'd be scanning the parked cars for occupants and looking ahead for potential traffic.

    Being in the bike lane, I'd probably give no thought to what's behind me, trusting to the sound of a bell or an "on your left" to alert me to overtakers. Failing that, I could probably hear a freewheel clicking if I was in the way of a faster cyclist.

    Likewise I'd tune out the car traffic in the righthand lane, perhaps to my own peril. I'm in the bike lane. Cars are in the car lane unless temporarily traversing the bike lane in order to park.

    Since bike lanes are meant to support casual cyclists like myself as well as serious cyclists, I gladly welcome any and all critiques of my point of view in this situation, particularly from more experienced riders.

  25. #25
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Looks like a pretty nice street to me too... nary a patch and only a small crack.

    Most likely I would be just inches to the right of the stripe...

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