Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 88

Thread: Enough!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Enough!

    Please, no more threads debating the usefulness of debating VC. No more polls discussing if we need threads debating the usefulness of debating VC. No more posts discussing if we need polls debating the usefulness of threads debating the usefulness of VC.

    Try to read some of these threads from the view of an outsider. Someone posts, and by the 2nd page, it's the VC debate. Over and over again.

    VC proponents, please show a bit of restraint in your postings. Many people tend to tune out a long-winded or heavy handed delivery.

    Everyone else, can we please minimize the debate, and stick to the topic of whatever thread you're posting in?


    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    251
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm sick of seeing thead *****ing about other threads..

  3. #3
    Older I get, Better I was velonomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Schenectady NY & Wilmington NC
    My Bikes
    a bunch of them, most made by me, a couple made by others
    Posts
    1,630
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    " I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"


  4. #4
    Gatoraid powered engine 2wheeledsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    NW Houston, TX.
    My Bikes
    A mixed-breed beater util/commute rigid hybrid I frankensteined out of assorted resqued components, called "Streetdancer". Ugly as sin, yet beautiful in function.
    Posts
    290
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He's mad as hell in multible time zones.

  5. #5
    Older I get, Better I was velonomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Schenectady NY & Wilmington NC
    My Bikes
    a bunch of them, most made by me, a couple made by others
    Posts
    1,630
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheeledsoul
    He's mad as hell in multible time zones.



    Ah you youngsters! That was a line and a scene from the movie "Network" (1976)

  6. #6
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
    Posts
    15,071
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle90
    I'm sick of seeing thead *****ing about other threads..
    Too bad

  7. #7
    beginner budster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Somerset, NJ, USA
    My Bikes
    Trek 800, Gary Fisher Advance, Trek 2300 Pro
    Posts
    764
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MERTON
    why all the clocks?
    He needs them to help triangulate his correct Lane Position.

    I'm sick of repeated debates, but then again -- if this stuff didn't keep popping up, how would noobs get up to speed on these? Yeah, they should read the stickies and they should learn to use search. But they don't usually do those things, do they?

    I dunno, if you don't want to read a thread, don't read it. If you don't want to participate in 'endless' debates, don't post. Piece of cake.
    Path of Abundance: Be Kind, be Generous, be Content, be Honest and be Aware.

    The first great gift we can bestow on others is a good example. -Thomas Morell
    A thimble of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains. -Dutch Proverb
    Never pass up the chance to keep your mouth shut. -Anonymous Cowboy

  8. #8
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    POS Tennessee
    My Bikes
    Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
    Posts
    7,596
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah, I'm all about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
    Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.

  9. #9
    Studs Terkel Johnny_Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Maputo, Mozambique
    My Bikes
    2005 Pinarello Paris; Avanti Blade Comp; Tommasini X-Fire
    Posts
    8,724
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MERTON
    why all the clocks?
    He's in a newsroom.

    I'm pretty sure that's Peter Finch and he won an oscar for that role.
    The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.

  10. #10
    bici accumulatori pinerider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario
    My Bikes
    1982 Steve Bauer road bike, 1985 Custom Campy road bike, 1985 Nishiki International Touring Bike, 1992 Norco Bigfoot MTB, 1975 Raleigh Twenty folder, 1992 Vitus 979 road bike, 1996 Bianchi Premio road bike, 2002 Thin Blue LIne CO2 mountain bike,
    Posts
    853
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've managed to avoid just about all threads debating vc and have usually managed to avoid the entire Advocacy and Safety forum altogether! It's pretty easy to do!
    ...!

  11. #11
    Senior Member John Wilke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    3,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pinerider
    I've managed to avoid just about all threads debating vc and have usually managed to avoid the entire Advocacy and Safety forum altogether! It's pretty easy to do!
    Is there a filter option to the Forums? If not, that would be nice !

    jw

  12. #12
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,902
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is why I bowed out of the BL/VC debates last Friday. Bike lanes
    I saw this coming.
    But it will pass and we will have fun again. Its important to keep active discussion on method of cycling safely in traffic - everyone should ignore the labels and focus on the methods, skills, experiences, etc.

    Al

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Davis, CA
    Posts
    89
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pinerider
    I've managed to avoid just about all threads debating vc and have usually managed to avoid the entire Advocacy and Safety forum altogether! It's pretty easy to do!
    Yeah, when I first got here I became mildly interested in VC because it presented some compeling ideas on how to ride. It was pretty easy to figure out the important parts though, and now all of the threads are just so much yak, yak, yak. It's beyond me some times how people can get so emotional over internet arguments.

    A&S is pretty much just VC talk with a few "look at this horrible accident" threads thrown in.

  14. #14
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
    Posts
    4,059
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I move in and out of A&S. Sometimes, I'll leave it alone for days or even a month at a time. Of course, the debates wouldn't be "debates" if there weren't some hard core people who attack VC for the sake of attacking VC. And if people didn't post ideas about why they thought bike lanes were helpful, it would be harder to write criticisms of an idea no one espoused.

    The debates often get mired down into personal attacks, not substantive arguments. In my admittedly biased view, the personal attacks usually (but not always) come from people who oppose VC. I used to point those out and (sometimes) respond in kind. I've tried to stop that. Putting the worst offender on my Ignore List made that easier.

    That's another option. If a few forum members annoy you for whatever reason, put them on your Ignore List. If what they're saying as no persuasive value (like the posts of the person on my list), then you don't have to worry about other people believing their posts. But if what they're saying has persuasive value, respond to it with something more persuasive.

    I think some of the most helpful posts are the examples of specific pieces of roadway with questions about how cyclists should traverse them or what kind of facilities (if any) are appropriate. That keeps the bike lane skeptics from talking about 25 mph roads and bike lane proponents from talkiing about cycling on freeways.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 01-16-06 at 10:22 AM.

  15. #15
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
    Posts
    4,059
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Each side of the debate should also work better to police itself. If you see someone you generally agree with cross the line into personal attacks or stupidly inflamed rhetoric, tell them either with a PM or a post.

    When my criticisms of one anti-VC'er's personal attacks also got too personal, others pointed that out to me. I've done the same for other people on my side of the debate. In one extreme case, I even started a thread about why I thought analogizing segregated cycling facilities to Nazi policies was deeply offensive. Finally, don't give "atta-boys" to posts that contain a strong personal attack but no substance.

    Sorry about the double post, the forum is having database problems and I couldn't tack this on to the end of my last post.

  16. #16
    Vino 4-ever FastFreddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    My Bikes
    road, mtn, and several commuter bikes
    Posts
    289
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Before I started visiting Bikeforums.net, I was familiar with the concept of VC. But I had no idea that people would get so worked up over a topic that seems – to me anyway – rather mundane. I still can’t grasp why this stirs so much passion. Any theories?
    Sheriff: You have a lot of experience with bounty hunters, do you?
    Mattie Ross: That is a silly question. I am here to settle my father’s affairs.
    Sheriff: All alone?
    Mattie Ross: I am the person for it. Mama was never any good at sums and she could hardly spell “CAT”.
    --from the movie True Grit (2010)

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FastFreddy
    Before I started visiting Bikeforums.net, I was familiar with the concept of VC. But I had no idea that people would get so worked up over a topic that seems – to me anyway – rather mundane. I still can’t grasp why this stirs so much passion. Any theories?
    For the same reasons that the roadies get all riled up any time Shimano vs. Campy or Triple vs. Double or Steel vs. other material comes up. People in general will think that what they are doing/using is the best. They'll generally disagree with someone who states otherwise. Thus, the start of many debates. A lot of BS results from these disagreements but every once in a while something useful is stated. I usually read through the whole debate anyway even if I just read the same thing last week.

    And please no one take offense to this. I'm just as guilty as any of the people I just described in terms of fueling the fire. Debating about bike is about 5% as fun as biking. And that's saying a lot. I'd rate driving somewhere in the .01% range.

  18. #18
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
    Posts
    4,059
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Another reason that it riles people is that it's important. Bike lanes, depending on your perspective, can greatly increase or decrease the fun and safety or riding. For example, I can get through my downtown pretty quickly now. But if cops expected me to stay in bike lanes, it would both slow me down and put me in a more dangerous part of the road. Yeah, that gets me riled up.

  19. #19
    Warning:Mild Peril Treespeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Seattle Refugee in Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    Cilo, Surly Pacer, Kona Fire Mountain w/Bob Trailer, Scattante
    Posts
    3,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Expat.
    Maybe we can quit debating VC on the A&S forum after you get everyone on the BMX forum to spell correctly, the SS&FG forum to stop bashing Pistas, and the Road forum to go a whole day without talking about poseurs. Good luck with all that and then get back to us.
    Non semper erit aestas.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Treespeed
    Expat.
    Maybe we can quit debating VC on the A&S forum after you get everyone on the BMX forum to spell correctly, the SS&FG forum to stop bashing Pistas, and the Road forum to go a whole day without talking about poseurs. Good luck with all that and then get back to us.
    Hmmm. Maybe I can get Osama Bin Laden to turn himself in too.

  21. #21
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Cracker Factory
    Posts
    24,352
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yada, yada, warden!
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  22. #22
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    My Bikes
    several
    Posts
    4,206
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Congratulations Expat, you have started the first thread about threads about polls about threads about VC!

  23. #23
    mac
    mac is offline
    They see me rollin' mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    2005 Cannondale T2000
    Posts
    785
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Actually, reading the threads about VC here has made me a better cyclist and kept me safer on streets. i.e. I now completely avoid right-hooks by taking the lane at the light. I also avoid bike lanes which are painted in an unsafe manner. Etc.

    VC is very relevant to Advocacy & Safety. If you don't like the topics, then don't read them. Maybe the "General Cycling Discussion" forum might be more to your liking.

  24. #24
    Senior Member John Wilke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    3,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mac
    Actually, reading the threads about VC here has made me a better cyclist and kept me safer on streets. .
    Not me. The SUV that hit me left tire marks on the left seat stay, bending it and launching me into the field next to the road. If I was riding 6 inches to the left, I'd be in the passenger seat instead of the nice soft field of poison ivy. I'll stay to the right, thanks.



    jw

  25. #25
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mac
    Actually, reading the threads about VC here has made me a better cyclist and kept me safer on streets. i.e. I now completely avoid right-hooks by taking the lane at the light. I also avoid bike lanes which are painted in an unsafe manner. Etc.

    VC is very relevant to Advocacy & Safety. If you don't like the topics, then don't read them. Maybe the "General Cycling Discussion" forum might be more to your liking.
    If VC works for you, that's good. I just don't think every A&S thread needs to turn into a debate about it.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •