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  1. #1
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Hit and runs continue... east county San Diego...

    From the local paper:

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...m23briefs.html

    January 23, 2006

    JAMUL – A bicyclist was seriously injured yesterday when he was struck by a hit-and-run driver who stepped out to look at the bleeding man before driving off, officials said.

    The victim was a 45-year-old San Diego man who had been riding his bike south on Lyons Valley Road, just south of Lawson Valley Road. He was hospitalized with internal injuries, broken lower leg bones and a possible broken thigh, said CHP spokesman Brian Pennings.

    The CHP spokesman said a silver-colored, smaller-sized pickup crossed the road's center dividing line and drove into the cyclist about 4 p.m. The impact threw the man off his bike.

    A witness heard the man screaming in pain, according to the CHP. The witness said he saw the driver get out of his truck, walk around to examine the victim but do nothing to help him, before driving away.

    The truck was described as a flatbed with wooden stakes around the bed. The CHP said it would have front-end damage. Officials are asking the public's help finding the driver: anyone with information is asked to call the CHP at 619-401-2000. – Lisa Petrillo

    *******************************************

    Great... OK, he's not dead... guess I'll just mosey on now...

    What in the world is going on in the heads of these drivers? Leaving a fellow human being hurt on the side of the road... Jeeze!

  2. #2
    Bent_Rider
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    Maybe he wasn't in the bike lane.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    The CHP spokesman said a silver-colored, smaller-sized pickup crossed the road's center dividing line and drove into the cyclist about 4 p.m. The impact threw the man off his bike.
    Sounds to me like attempted murder more so than an accident. Someone somewhere on these forums said that to use a car to kill someone is the way to go, because there are no consequences, perhaps that's why the driver didn't finish the job? I'm only half serious about these statements, but I don't see any reason given for this crossing into the opposite lane, other than perhaps "careless" driving (implied?).

  4. #4
    Banned. Bekologist's Avatar
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    hit and runs seem to be occuring in the Northwest with increasing frequency...it sounds like it's turning into a 'considered' driver response to hitting someone nowadays.

    The social fabric of America is fraying badly.

  5. #5
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    I'd say more like pre-meditated murder if he drove over the center line into the oncoming traffic lane to hit someone, then get out to see if he was dead or not, then drive away. That's just disgusting and that driver should be subjected to the exact same accident.
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  6. #6
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Perhaps this increase in hit and runs is an unfortunate side-effect of strict drinking and driving laws.
    ~Diane
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Perhaps this increase in hit and runs is an unfortunate side-effect of strict drinking and driving laws.
    "Of two evils we must always choose the least."

  8. #8
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    I think Diane brings up a good point.
    I'm not sure that strict punishment for drinking and driving is the most effective approach, though I don't have an alternative in mind.

  9. #9
    Banned. Bekologist's Avatar
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    actually, the punishments for drinking and driving aren't severe enough.

    one drunk driving conviction, a person's license should be suspended for 10 years, or life. America should take cues from the N. Europeans more often....

  10. #10
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarry
    Maybe he wasn't in the bike lane.
    Gee you're funny. Not in a ha-ha kinda way though. More of a wouldn't want to let you near the kids way.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  11. #11
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    The penalties for hit-and-run just need to be worse than the penalties for anything that might happen to them if they stay.

    For starters:
    -automatic license suspension for at least (x) years (in addition to those incurred by the incident)
    -leaving the scene is an ADDITIONAL charge of assault/homicide/whatever is applicable depending on outcome, besides the charges incurred from the incident.
    -driver who leaves the scene becomes automatically liable for ALL costs of the accident, regardless of fault, including medical and legal. If the person winds up in a wheelchair for life, well guess what buddy, you just bought yourself a dependant.

    In addition:
    All penalties for each portion of an incident should be required to be considered SEPARATELY and served/paid consecutively. I'm sick of seeing penalties for one thing waived because the person is already serving/paying for some other thing related to the incident. If you cause an incident and the law takes your license for 1 year, fine. If you leave the scene and the law says that means another year, then 1+1=2 years, not 1.

    Basically, you need to make the penalties for hit-and-run so severe so that people would be TERRIFIED to leave the scene of an incident. You can't count on people to stay around to help just out of kindness, because some people are f***king a$$holes, and will only be motivated by fear. Selecting those who cause traffic incidents probably selects more a-holes than the general population percentage.

    It might be good to put into law that the penalties for hit-and-run must automatically be adjusted to be more severe than the penalties for any traffic-related charges that may be levelled against the driver if he stays. Then the only people who would (logically) flee the scene would be those who have outstanding arrest warrants for serious crimes, or something like that.

    You're always going to get people who think they can get away with it, or who are to drunk or paniced to think logically. The solution to that is to make sure that as few people as possible get away with it (you can never catch everyone), and to take offenders licenses away for so long that drunk/panicy people are effectively off the street for life.

    We need to start treating traffic incidents for what they are: being careless with a deadly weapon. For all the people who rail on gun-toting types, at least most gun owners are very careful with their weapons. Just because cars weren't built to kill doesn't mean people can get careless, and it doesn't bring back to life tens of thousands of people a year (far more than die even in all but the largest wars).

    Unfortunately, people tend to look at a traffic incident, think "that could have happened to me, I drive like that" and immediately conclude "therefore the person is blameless" rather than "maybe I should be more careful."

  12. #12
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobber
    Gee you're funny. Not in a ha-ha kinda way though. More of a wouldn't want to let you near the kids way.
    Didn't notice the sarcasm smiley, did you.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  13. #13
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    I think Diane brings up a good point.
    I'm not sure that strict punishment for drinking and driving is the most effective approach, though I don't have an alternative in mind.
    How about those tracking devices used on offenders, you know, those anklets? Tells police where you are at all times, like the one they slapped on Martha Stewart?

    So you get convicted of DUI, you get your license revoked, and you get an anklet. You drive a car and a cop zeros in on you, you go to jail.

    Just a thought.
    No worries

  14. #14
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I made that point because recenly a local woman was convicted of manslaughter for killing a pedestrian. Thing is she hit and ran, but then called up the next morning saying she thinks she might have hit someone but wasn't sure at the time but now that she can see there's a dent she must have hit something. Because she was on her way home from a party the night it happened everyone assumed (and she was observed drinking at the party) she was intoxicated and wanted to wait for it to wear off rather than get a DUI.
    ~Diane
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  15. #15
    Bent_Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakub.ner
    Sounds to me like attempted murder more so than an accident. Someone somewhere on these forums said that to use a car to kill someone is the way to go, because there are no consequences, perhaps that's why the driver didn't finish the job? I'm only half serious about these statements, but I don't see any reason given for this crossing into the opposite lane, other than perhaps "careless" driving (implied?).
    Ken Kifer was killed that way.
    http://www.kenkifer.com./death.htm

    Tragically, Ken Kifer died on September 14, 2003 after being hit by a drunk driver just 6 miles from his home near Scottsboro, Alabama. He was 57.

    Jimmy Don Rodgers, 29, driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, was speeding as he drove his pickup truck south. Ken was riding his bicycle north. Rodgers hit Ken shortly before 8pm on Saturday, September 13. He died the next morning.

    Rodgers had been released from jail just four hours before hitting Ken. He had been held for 12 hours on charges of DUI (Driving Under the Influence) and a violation of the open container law. He has been charged with murder.

  16. #16
    Bent_Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Didn't notice the sarcasm smiley, did you.
    Thanks, he must of not noticed the bike lane debate that's been swirling around here, either.
    Good thing I didn't mention helmets.

  17. #17
    Gatoraid powered engine 2wheeledsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
    The penalties for hit-and-run just need to be worse than the penalties for anything that might happen to them if they stay.

    For starters:
    -automatic license suspension for at least (x) years (in addition to those incurred by the incident)
    -leaving the scene is an ADDITIONAL charge of assault/homicide/whatever is applicable depending on outcome, besides the charges incurred from the incident.
    -driver who leaves the scene becomes automatically liable for ALL costs of the accident, regardless of fault, including medical and legal. If the person winds up in a wheelchair for life, well guess what buddy, you just bought yourself a dependant.

    In addition:
    All penalties for each portion of an incident should be required to be considered SEPARATELY and served/paid consecutively. I'm sick of seeing penalties for one thing waived because the person is already serving/paying for some other thing related to the incident. If you cause an incident and the law takes your license for 1 year, fine. If you leave the scene and the law says that means another year, then 1+1=2 years, not 1.

    Basically, you need to make the penalties for hit-and-run so severe so that people would be TERRIFIED to leave the scene of an incident. You can't count on people to stay around to help just out of kindness, because some people are f***king a$$holes, and will only be motivated by fear. Selecting those who cause traffic incidents probably selects more a-holes than the general population percentage.

    It might be good to put into law that the penalties for hit-and-run must automatically be adjusted to be more severe than the penalties for any traffic-related charges that may be levelled against the driver if he stays. Then the only people who would (logically) flee the scene would be those who have outstanding arrest warrants for serious crimes, or something like that.

    You're always going to get people who think they can get away with it, or who are to drunk or paniced to think logically. The solution to that is to make sure that as few people as possible get away with it (you can never catch everyone), and to take offenders licenses away for so long that drunk/panicy people are effectively off the street for life.

    We need to start treating traffic incidents for what they are: being careless with a deadly weapon. For all the people who rail on gun-toting types, at least most gun owners are very careful with their weapons. Just because cars weren't built to kill doesn't mean people can get careless, and it doesn't bring back to life tens of thousands of people a year (far more than die even in all but the largest wars).

    Unfortunately, people tend to look at a traffic incident, think "that could have happened to me, I drive like that" and immediately conclude "therefore the person is blameless" rather than "maybe I should be more careful."
    +1 +1 +1

    Actually enforcing the laws already there would be a damn good start.

  18. #18
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    hit and runs seem to be occuring in the Northwest with increasing frequency...it sounds like it's turning into a 'considered' driver response to hitting someone nowadays.
    I've been noticing two rather alarming increases. Hit-and-run and head-on/wrong-way collisions. Maybe they're not increasing but just getting more press coverage. It just seems like every week there's at least one story of someone crossing into oncoming traffic or someone driving away from the scene of an accident.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Perhaps this increase in hit and runs is an unfortunate side-effect of strict drinking and driving laws.
    I can see this: driver hits someone and doesn't want to get caught with alcohol on his/her breath. Also, I think cycling is getting a bit more notice, so the newspapers pick up on bicycle-car accidents more readily. I know that this is happening in the Portland area. Portland is so publicly committed to increasing the number of people bicycling that every time there is an accident or an altercation, it brings rise to the "increasing numbers of cyclists causes friction" type articles. Accidents, which before would get a little blurb in the "local incidents" section of the paper, if anything at all, now get full press coverage, along with a bit of commentary on the social aspects of the increasing number of cyclists out on the road.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  20. #20
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Didn't notice the sarcasm smiley, did you.
    Yeah I did. I still think it's in poor taste. Assclowns come in all shapes and sizes though. I happen to be a large round one.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Paul L.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    I made that point because recenly a local woman was convicted of manslaughter for killing a pedestrian. Thing is she hit and ran, but then called up the next morning saying she thinks she might have hit someone but wasn't sure at the time but now that she can see there's a dent she must have hit something. Because she was on her way home from a party the night it happened everyone assumed (and she was observed drinking at the party) she was intoxicated and wanted to wait for it to wear off rather than get a DUI.

    Maybe if they just made it so a hit and run automatically equaled a DUI people would figure they get it either way and it would be better to wait.
    Sunrise saturday,
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  22. #22
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    IANAL... I think that fleeing the scene of an accident should incur a charge of at least depraved indifference. That should at least ellevate the seriousness.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Just this morning there was another hit and run of a motorcyclist... again a motorist believing that running is the solution to what ever poor action caused the accident in the first place... as though bad decisions compound to make a "right."

  24. #24
    Scum, Freezebag! Mo'Phat's Avatar
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    Man oh man. I'm riding this road for the first time on Saturday, and I read this today?!!

    genec That hit and run of the motorcyclist happened about 2 miles from my house on a road I ride quite a bit (78 at Cloverdale...1.5 miles west of the Wild Animal Park). For the record, ***edit***I wrote a whole misinformed synopsis of the accident, removed my head from my rectum, did some research, and here's the latest:

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...n26hitrun.html
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  25. #25
    Scum, Freezebag! Mo'Phat's Avatar
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    Yay, turns out he was on crystal meth, was charged with gross vehicular manslaughter, felony hit-n-run, and dui. Off he goes to Federal PMITA prison.
    Mo'Phat's Rules to Live By:
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    Rule #13: Always make sure she has a better time than you do.

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