Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-23-06, 01:23 PM   #1
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,716
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Hit and runs continue... east county San Diego...

From the local paper:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...m23briefs.html

January 23, 2006

JAMUL – A bicyclist was seriously injured yesterday when he was struck by a hit-and-run driver who stepped out to look at the bleeding man before driving off, officials said.

The victim was a 45-year-old San Diego man who had been riding his bike south on Lyons Valley Road, just south of Lawson Valley Road. He was hospitalized with internal injuries, broken lower leg bones and a possible broken thigh, said CHP spokesman Brian Pennings.

The CHP spokesman said a silver-colored, smaller-sized pickup crossed the road's center dividing line and drove into the cyclist about 4 p.m. The impact threw the man off his bike.

A witness heard the man screaming in pain, according to the CHP. The witness said he saw the driver get out of his truck, walk around to examine the victim but do nothing to help him, before driving away.

The truck was described as a flatbed with wooden stakes around the bed. The CHP said it would have front-end damage. Officials are asking the public's help finding the driver: anyone with information is asked to call the CHP at 619-401-2000. – Lisa Petrillo

*******************************************

Great... OK, he's not dead... guess I'll just mosey on now...

What in the world is going on in the heads of these drivers? Leaving a fellow human being hurt on the side of the road... Jeeze!
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-06, 01:45 PM   #2
scarry
Bent_Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SF Bay area
Bikes: Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe he wasn't in the bike lane.
scarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-06, 08:06 PM   #3
jakub.ner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, Ontario
Bikes: 2 Xootr Swifts, Dahon Curve, Oxford Winter Beater.
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
The CHP spokesman said a silver-colored, smaller-sized pickup crossed the road's center dividing line and drove into the cyclist about 4 p.m. The impact threw the man off his bike.
Sounds to me like attempted murder more so than an accident. Someone somewhere on these forums said that to use a car to kill someone is the way to go, because there are no consequences, perhaps that's why the driver didn't finish the job? I'm only half serious about these statements, but I don't see any reason given for this crossing into the opposite lane, other than perhaps "careless" driving (implied?).
jakub.ner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-06, 08:11 PM   #4
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hit and runs seem to be occuring in the Northwest with increasing frequency...it sounds like it's turning into a 'considered' driver response to hitting someone nowadays.

The social fabric of America is fraying badly.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-06, 08:11 PM   #5
jyossarian
SERENITY NOW!!!
 
jyossarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In the 212
Bikes: Haro Vector, IRO Rob Roy, Bianchi Veloce
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd say more like pre-meditated murder if he drove over the center line into the oncoming traffic lane to hit someone, then get out to see if he was dead or not, then drive away. That's just disgusting and that driver should be subjected to the exact same accident.
__________________
HHCMF - Take pride in your ability to amaze lesser mortals! - MikeR



We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!
jyossarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-06, 08:15 PM   #6
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Perhaps this increase in hit and runs is an unfortunate side-effect of strict drinking and driving laws.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-06, 08:51 PM   #7
Markio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
Perhaps this increase in hit and runs is an unfortunate side-effect of strict drinking and driving laws.
"Of two evils we must always choose the least."
Markio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 12:47 AM   #8
Helmet Head
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes:
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think Diane brings up a good point.
I'm not sure that strict punishment for drinking and driving is the most effective approach, though I don't have an alternative in mind.
Helmet Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 06:15 AM   #9
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
actually, the punishments for drinking and driving aren't severe enough.

one drunk driving conviction, a person's license should be suspended for 10 years, or life. America should take cues from the N. Europeans more often....
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 07:27 AM   #10
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarry
Maybe he wasn't in the bike lane.
Gee you're funny. Not in a ha-ha kinda way though. More of a wouldn't want to let you near the kids way.
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 07:46 AM   #11
ItsJustMe
Señior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Posts: 13,063
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
The penalties for hit-and-run just need to be worse than the penalties for anything that might happen to them if they stay.

For starters:
-automatic license suspension for at least (x) years (in addition to those incurred by the incident)
-leaving the scene is an ADDITIONAL charge of assault/homicide/whatever is applicable depending on outcome, besides the charges incurred from the incident.
-driver who leaves the scene becomes automatically liable for ALL costs of the accident, regardless of fault, including medical and legal. If the person winds up in a wheelchair for life, well guess what buddy, you just bought yourself a dependant.

In addition:
All penalties for each portion of an incident should be required to be considered SEPARATELY and served/paid consecutively. I'm sick of seeing penalties for one thing waived because the person is already serving/paying for some other thing related to the incident. If you cause an incident and the law takes your license for 1 year, fine. If you leave the scene and the law says that means another year, then 1+1=2 years, not 1.

Basically, you need to make the penalties for hit-and-run so severe so that people would be TERRIFIED to leave the scene of an incident. You can't count on people to stay around to help just out of kindness, because some people are f***king a$$holes, and will only be motivated by fear. Selecting those who cause traffic incidents probably selects more a-holes than the general population percentage.

It might be good to put into law that the penalties for hit-and-run must automatically be adjusted to be more severe than the penalties for any traffic-related charges that may be levelled against the driver if he stays. Then the only people who would (logically) flee the scene would be those who have outstanding arrest warrants for serious crimes, or something like that.

You're always going to get people who think they can get away with it, or who are to drunk or paniced to think logically. The solution to that is to make sure that as few people as possible get away with it (you can never catch everyone), and to take offenders licenses away for so long that drunk/panicy people are effectively off the street for life.

We need to start treating traffic incidents for what they are: being careless with a deadly weapon. For all the people who rail on gun-toting types, at least most gun owners are very careful with their weapons. Just because cars weren't built to kill doesn't mean people can get careless, and it doesn't bring back to life tens of thousands of people a year (far more than die even in all but the largest wars).

Unfortunately, people tend to look at a traffic incident, think "that could have happened to me, I drive like that" and immediately conclude "therefore the person is blameless" rather than "maybe I should be more careful."
ItsJustMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 07:53 AM   #12
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobber
Gee you're funny. Not in a ha-ha kinda way though. More of a wouldn't want to let you near the kids way.
Didn't notice the sarcasm smiley, did you.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 09:16 AM   #13
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
I think Diane brings up a good point.
I'm not sure that strict punishment for drinking and driving is the most effective approach, though I don't have an alternative in mind.
How about those tracking devices used on offenders, you know, those anklets? Tells police where you are at all times, like the one they slapped on Martha Stewart?

So you get convicted of DUI, you get your license revoked, and you get an anklet. You drive a car and a cop zeros in on you, you go to jail.

Just a thought.
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 09:33 AM   #14
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I made that point because recenly a local woman was convicted of manslaughter for killing a pedestrian. Thing is she hit and ran, but then called up the next morning saying she thinks she might have hit someone but wasn't sure at the time but now that she can see there's a dent she must have hit something. Because she was on her way home from a party the night it happened everyone assumed (and she was observed drinking at the party) she was intoxicated and wanted to wait for it to wear off rather than get a DUI.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 11:43 AM   #15
scarry
Bent_Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SF Bay area
Bikes: Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakub.ner
Sounds to me like attempted murder more so than an accident. Someone somewhere on these forums said that to use a car to kill someone is the way to go, because there are no consequences, perhaps that's why the driver didn't finish the job? I'm only half serious about these statements, but I don't see any reason given for this crossing into the opposite lane, other than perhaps "careless" driving (implied?).
Ken Kifer was killed that way.
http://www.kenkifer.com./death.htm

Quote:
Tragically, Ken Kifer died on September 14, 2003 after being hit by a drunk driver just 6 miles from his home near Scottsboro, Alabama. He was 57.

Jimmy Don Rodgers, 29, driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, was speeding as he drove his pickup truck south. Ken was riding his bicycle north. Rodgers hit Ken shortly before 8pm on Saturday, September 13. He died the next morning.

Rodgers had been released from jail just four hours before hitting Ken. He had been held for 12 hours on charges of DUI (Driving Under the Influence) and a violation of the open container law. He has been charged with murder.
scarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 11:47 AM   #16
scarry
Bent_Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SF Bay area
Bikes: Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
Didn't notice the sarcasm smiley, did you.
Thanks, he must of not noticed the bike lane debate that's been swirling around here, either.
Good thing I didn't mention helmets.
scarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 11:50 AM   #17
2wheeledsoul
Gatoraid powered engine
 
2wheeledsoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NW Houston, TX.
Bikes: A mixed-breed beater util/commute rigid hybrid I frankensteined out of assorted resqued components, called "Streetdancer". Ugly as sin, yet beautiful in function.
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
The penalties for hit-and-run just need to be worse than the penalties for anything that might happen to them if they stay.

For starters:
-automatic license suspension for at least (x) years (in addition to those incurred by the incident)
-leaving the scene is an ADDITIONAL charge of assault/homicide/whatever is applicable depending on outcome, besides the charges incurred from the incident.
-driver who leaves the scene becomes automatically liable for ALL costs of the accident, regardless of fault, including medical and legal. If the person winds up in a wheelchair for life, well guess what buddy, you just bought yourself a dependant.

In addition:
All penalties for each portion of an incident should be required to be considered SEPARATELY and served/paid consecutively. I'm sick of seeing penalties for one thing waived because the person is already serving/paying for some other thing related to the incident. If you cause an incident and the law takes your license for 1 year, fine. If you leave the scene and the law says that means another year, then 1+1=2 years, not 1.

Basically, you need to make the penalties for hit-and-run so severe so that people would be TERRIFIED to leave the scene of an incident. You can't count on people to stay around to help just out of kindness, because some people are f***king a$$holes, and will only be motivated by fear. Selecting those who cause traffic incidents probably selects more a-holes than the general population percentage.

It might be good to put into law that the penalties for hit-and-run must automatically be adjusted to be more severe than the penalties for any traffic-related charges that may be levelled against the driver if he stays. Then the only people who would (logically) flee the scene would be those who have outstanding arrest warrants for serious crimes, or something like that.

You're always going to get people who think they can get away with it, or who are to drunk or paniced to think logically. The solution to that is to make sure that as few people as possible get away with it (you can never catch everyone), and to take offenders licenses away for so long that drunk/panicy people are effectively off the street for life.

We need to start treating traffic incidents for what they are: being careless with a deadly weapon. For all the people who rail on gun-toting types, at least most gun owners are very careful with their weapons. Just because cars weren't built to kill doesn't mean people can get careless, and it doesn't bring back to life tens of thousands of people a year (far more than die even in all but the largest wars).

Unfortunately, people tend to look at a traffic incident, think "that could have happened to me, I drive like that" and immediately conclude "therefore the person is blameless" rather than "maybe I should be more careful."
+1 +1 +1

Actually enforcing the laws already there would be a damn good start.
2wheeledsoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 11:54 AM   #18
khuon
DEADBEEF
 
khuon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Catching his breath alongside a road near Seattle, WA USA
Bikes: 1999 K2 OzM, 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
Posts: 12,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
hit and runs seem to be occuring in the Northwest with increasing frequency...it sounds like it's turning into a 'considered' driver response to hitting someone nowadays.
I've been noticing two rather alarming increases. Hit-and-run and head-on/wrong-way collisions. Maybe they're not increasing but just getting more press coverage. It just seems like every week there's at least one story of someone crossing into oncoming traffic or someone driving away from the scene of an accident.
__________________
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
khuon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 12:40 PM   #19
Brian Ratliff
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
Posts: 10,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
Perhaps this increase in hit and runs is an unfortunate side-effect of strict drinking and driving laws.
I can see this: driver hits someone and doesn't want to get caught with alcohol on his/her breath. Also, I think cycling is getting a bit more notice, so the newspapers pick up on bicycle-car accidents more readily. I know that this is happening in the Portland area. Portland is so publicly committed to increasing the number of people bicycling that every time there is an accident or an altercation, it brings rise to the "increasing numbers of cyclists causes friction" type articles. Accidents, which before would get a little blurb in the "local incidents" section of the paper, if anything at all, now get full press coverage, along with a bit of commentary on the social aspects of the increasing number of cyclists out on the road.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 12:53 PM   #20
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
Didn't notice the sarcasm smiley, did you.
Yeah I did. I still think it's in poor taste. Assclowns come in all shapes and sizes though. I happen to be a large round one.
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 01:00 PM   #21
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
I made that point because recenly a local woman was convicted of manslaughter for killing a pedestrian. Thing is she hit and ran, but then called up the next morning saying she thinks she might have hit someone but wasn't sure at the time but now that she can see there's a dent she must have hit something. Because she was on her way home from a party the night it happened everyone assumed (and she was observed drinking at the party) she was intoxicated and wanted to wait for it to wear off rather than get a DUI.

Maybe if they just made it so a hit and run automatically equaled a DUI people would figure they get it either way and it would be better to wait.
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-06, 01:20 PM   #22
khuon
DEADBEEF
 
khuon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Catching his breath alongside a road near Seattle, WA USA
Bikes: 1999 K2 OzM, 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
Posts: 12,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IANAL... I think that fleeing the scene of an accident should incur a charge of at least depraved indifference. That should at least ellevate the seriousness.
__________________
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
khuon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-06, 11:02 AM   #23
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,716
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Just this morning there was another hit and run of a motorcyclist... again a motorist believing that running is the solution to what ever poor action caused the accident in the first place... as though bad decisions compound to make a "right."
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-06, 03:39 PM   #24
Mo'Phat
Scum, Freezebag!
 
Mo'Phat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Poway, CA
Bikes: 2007 Leader 796R w/ 10sp DA and 2005 Jamis Dakar XLT FS MTB
Posts: 4,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Man oh man. I'm riding this road for the first time on Saturday, and I read this today?!!

genec That hit and run of the motorcyclist happened about 2 miles from my house on a road I ride quite a bit (78 at Cloverdale...1.5 miles west of the Wild Animal Park). For the record, ***edit***I wrote a whole misinformed synopsis of the accident, removed my head from my rectum, did some research, and here's the latest:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...n26hitrun.html
Mo'Phat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-06, 03:45 PM   #25
Mo'Phat
Scum, Freezebag!
 
Mo'Phat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Poway, CA
Bikes: 2007 Leader 796R w/ 10sp DA and 2005 Jamis Dakar XLT FS MTB
Posts: 4,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yay, turns out he was on crystal meth, was charged with gross vehicular manslaughter, felony hit-n-run, and dui. Off he goes to Federal PMITA prison.
Mo'Phat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:05 AM.