Helmet Head

I'm curious as to what dashed bike lane stripes (as opposed to solid) means in various areas.

Hawkear

I voted the third, but dashed bike lanes obviously mean nothing according to local law enforcement (and we know they are all experts on the law!).

Bekologist

The example below means, to bikes: "Bikes move left to new lane; caution, cars may cross."

And to cars: "Caution; bike lane crossing, bikes repositioning for intersection. Cars continuing straight, move left."

mac

I don't know and voted for that. My guess is that it means bikes & cars can both cross over? I don't pay too much attention to bike lanes anyways here in L.A. A lot are terrible.

noisebeam

Bikes are always allowed to cross over BL stripe, dashed or not.

The dashed gives permission for motorist to merge into/across BL. Merge means yielding right of way to any vehicle already in BL.

Al

noisebeam

See my response to this poor design in:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...postcount=1521

If a RTOL breaks away the cyclist should merge before it does, not during which is how right hooks happen.

Al

Brian Ratliff

Perfectly said. This, I believe, is how the public interprets the dashed strip as well. This is also the interpretation given to solid lines separating other special use lanes (such as HOV or bus lanes).

Brian Ratliff

I would agree that this design is subpar. It usually occurs as an add-on to roads which did not used to have the right turn only lane. If you look in the background, you can see that this road used to be stripped as a two lane with a right+straight turn lane where the right turn only lane is now. Across the intersection, there is a wide section of road where the single lane + bike lane transitions back into a two lanes + bike lane configuration. So while this configuration is subpar, I would argue that it is better than having a bike lane to the right of a right+straight through lane.

One could argue that it is better for the bike lane to simply disappear, however, if the bike lane disappeared without a sign giving instructions on how cyclists are to negotiate the intersection, most cyclists (the ones who primarily benefit from bike lanes) would simply cross the intersection traveling to the right of the right turn only lane. So while the dashed lines might transition a bit too sharply, they do a good job of guiding the cyclist to the correct lane position and guiding the cars to merge into the bike lane. An experienced cyclist who transitions earlier will not be affected, and the less experienced cyclist will be guided across the right turn only lane in an expedient and official manner; any driver has no excuse to be surprised.

The way right turn only lanes work on new road construction here, is that the bike lane stays on a straight path and the the right turn only lane breaks out and becomes a completely separate lane to the right of the bike lane. This forces the driver to merge purposefully into the bike lane, instead of simply merging by default, as the design above is doing. This method of negotiating right turning cars with straight going cyclists is the preferred method in the Portland area, to judge from new road construction projects.

noisebeam

I agree. I had this reaction as it was posted in another thread as an example of a 'good design'. I don't think BL proponents should be showing this as a good example. If it was presented as a 'workable design' I wouldn't have had as strong a reaction.

Al

Paul L.

In many places the dotted lines are accompanied by signs saying cars yield to bikes. So that would be my vote.

patc

Special use lanes are special use lanes... only bike-lane haters think special rules apply only to bike lanes.

Brian Ratliff

Good point.

Treespeed

+1

TRaffic Jammer

I know about the DO NOT cross solid line but at the top of my street where there is oodles of parking it came to my attention last night that the line is completely solid. So under that definition there should be no cars parker there at all as they would have to cross the line to park. Now on the same stretch of road/path...when you get to an intersection the line is dashed, so maybe.... cars can cross here in they're normal driving pattern vis-a-vis turning the corner. BUT you can cross that line to park? Seems odd.

noisebeam

Take a look at p.23 in this .pdf from Pima County, AZ (Tuscon):
https://www.dot.co.pima.az.us/tpcbac/sharetheroad.pdf

It doesn't address the stripe vs. not issue, but it does say cars should not merge into BL for right turns, which I think is wrong recommendation. It is much safer if cars merge (yielding ROW) into BL before turn, whether the last 20ft of lane stripe is dashed or not.

Of course the graphic shown is correct, drivers should not right hook (i.e. yeild ROW) but the best way to right turn as motor vehicle is to merge into BL well before turn. On a heavily cycled route this may mean safely merging in front of a cyclist and temporarily slowing them down (or giving cyclist option to pass on left)

Al

Bekologist

why the kneejerk response Al? You had to transpose your criticism of it to this thread? I didn't place any quality assessment of it here.

However, 'workable' 'good' 'effective' all apply in my mind, this was a rework of existing pavement. I'm just one guy, caveman biker dude. I'm no expert, but I wonder what exactly you 'experts' consider 'good' bike accomodations at intersections? nothing???

It's a picture i took yesterday, fer cristsakes, what do you want, pulitzer prize winning bike lane pictures?

noisebeam

It was a strong response, not kneejerk. As courtesy, I very careully tried to direct discussion to the BL thread. Did you not notice the links I provided lead/directed to my critism in the BL thread where I hoped discussion would continue?

Why the strong response? Because while I am in general against BL, I am in favor of carefully planned and implemented bike facilities. This means that a specific design in put into place for a specific location, instead of applying standards that don't always fit. I think showing BL designs as you photographed hurts BL advocacy by lowering the expectations of specific and good design, instead of helping it.
Al

JRA

Yea, exactly.


In Missouri, cars not only have permission but are encouraged to merge into the BL before making a turn, whether the stripe is solid or dashed.

Bikes can leave a BL whether the line is solid or dashed and cars can enter a BL whether the line solid or dashed, so, solid or dashed, it doesn't matter.

They can make the line orange and purple for all I care. It's just some paint on the pavement. It's not like it's a wall or anything.

I'm as free as a breeze
And I ride where I please
Saddle tramp, saddle tramp

Helmet Head

Not in CA and many other states. Striped or not, you have to have a good reason to leave the bike lane:


21208. (a) Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under any of the following situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, vehicle, or pedestrian within the lane or about to enter the lane if the overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane.

(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid debris or other hazardous conditions.

(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

(b) No person operating a bicycle shall leave a bicycle lane until the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be affected by the movement.


https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm

Helmet Head

It's not a recommendation, it's a statement of the law. The law in AZ, at least. (I believe OR and MA law is similar, other states too). In AZ, motorists are prohibited from merging into bike lanes when turning right. In CA, they are required to merge into bike lanes when turning right.


28-815. Riding on roadway and bicycle path; bicycle path usage

A. A person riding a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:

1. If overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. If preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. If reasonably necessary to avoid conditions, including fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals or surface hazards.

4. If the lane in which the person is operating the bicycle is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

B. Persons riding bicycles on a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

C. A path or lane that is designated as a bicycle path or lane by state or local authorities is for the exclusive use of bicycles even though other uses are permitted pursuant to subsection D or are otherwise permitted by state or local authorities.

D. A person shall not operate, stop, park or leave standing a vehicle in a path or lane designated as a bicycle path or lane by a state or local authority except in the case of emergency or for crossing the path or lane to gain access to a public or private road or driveway.

E. Subsection D does not prohibit the use of the path or lane by the appropriate local authority.

https://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS



21717. Whenever it is necessary for the driver of a motor vehicle to cross a bicycle lane that is adjacent to his lane of travel to make a turn, the driver shall drive the motor vehicle into the bicycle lane prior to making the turn and shall make the turn pursuant to Section 22100.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21717.htm

TRaffic Jammer

so that's not confusing at all to travelers wether in cars or touring on bikes.... bloody hell

Ignatz

I'm in the California Bay Area and I've always considered the dashed portion of the bike lane stripe to be basically meaningless. Auto drivers are allowed to enter the bike lane to make a right turn within two hundred feet of the corner regardless of the type of striping. I couldn't find it in the regulations themselves but the following quote is from the drivers handbook on the CA DMV website;

"BICYCLE LANES
A bicycle lane is shown by a solid white line along either side of the street, four or more feet from the
curb. The white line will usually be broken near the corner and the words “BIKE LANE” will be
painted in the lane. Do not drive in a bike lane unless you are making a right turn and are within
200 feet of the corner or other driveway entrance."

My guess is that by changing the line to a dashed one as the bike lane nears a corner the intent is to tell cyclists to be aware that cars may be entering the bike lane to make the right turn and to let auto drivers know that they can enter the bike lane.

genec

The dashing signifies a merge area... that motorists should merge into the lane to make their turn and cyclists should merge out of the lane unless also turning.

This by the way is vastly different from "allowed to enter or allowed to leave," as motorists may enter BL in other areas too, such as to cross into a driveway and cyclists always my leave a BL

noisebeam

So there is a grey area between crossing vs. merging it seems. Does crossing mean ones car needs to be perpendicular? Does it mean that one should not make forward motion when crossing the line? What about 90% forward motion and 10% crossing motion?

Also where newer BL striping is applied the last 20ft of the stripe before a side street right turn is often dashed - that seems to give the message to drivers to merge into the lane before turning. (what really happens is motorist clip the corner of the dashed line.) But the dashing is not always done for sidestreets even with new repainting one side street will get the 20ft of dash, the next one which may be a slighlty smaller side street gets none. Does this mean that motorist should merge into BL where dashed, but make a sharp right hook where there is no dash?

Al

sbhikes

It means lane ends. Merge with caution. And it means that to both cars and cyclists.