DeeMaGlee

This from Washington Area Bicyclists Association (waba.org):

Is this really as bad as it sounds? Are there so many people riding bikes on Beach Drive on weekdays to warrant shutting down the road? I don't know; I'm usually at work! It *is* a national park though...In fact, it's the largest urban national park in the country. And isn't the idea behind parks to provide a quiet, peaceful place for relaxation and recreation? Not to mention preservation of wildlife. It seems very bizarre to me to have a line of rush hour traffic winding its way through a national park. What would New Yorkers do if their park service opened Central Park to rush hour traffic? I'm guessing they wouldn't like it. [EDIT: user "jpearl" tells us later in this thread that, "Central Park is open to rush hour traffic. It's dangerous and nobody likes it, but if you've ever seen rush hour traffic on the streets of NYC, you'd understand why".]

I personally see no need for Beach Drive to be opened to traffic when there are perfectly capable roads running parallel to Beack Drive outside the park, such as Connecticut or Wisconsin Avenues west of the park and 16th St or Georgia Ave east of it.

Your thoughts?

Guest

Close beach and encourage cycling on weekdays. Make cars take Wisconsin and CT instead.

Koffee

jpearl

Bad idea. Last thing you want to do is to take traffic that flows relatively smoothly, and compact it onto roads like Wisconsin and CT which are heavily laden with stop lights, cars stopping to turn onto side streets, and cars parked on the sides of the roads. It would be a traffic nightmare, which is not what we need given the traffic nightmare that is already rush hour commuting in the DC Metro area. While I encourage bicycle commuting and commute via bicycle as much as possible myself, some people just don't have the luxury. Unfortunately, while DC has generally good public transportation, it's not as robust as New York City's (but a whole lot cleaner, though).

BTW, DeeMaGlee, Central Park is open to rush hour traffic. It's dangerous and nobody likes it, but if you've ever seen rush hour traffic on the streets of NYC, you'd understand why, and if you were trapped in a car on Central Park West, you'd make for a shortcut through the park fist chance you got.

DeeMaGlee

jpearl: Thanks for the clarification re NY's Central Park.

Studies of Beach Drive's traffic during rush hour have shown that these other roads could easily handle the extra load. IMHO, there is simply no reason in the world to turn a national park into another commuter artery. It's just plain wrong. There are already about 12 arterial routes into the city. How much more traffic could a single-lane, windy road through a park add to these huge arteries like Wisconsin or Connecticut?

In addition, I believe that closing the park to motorized traffic would definitely encourage suburban dwellers in Bethesda, Rockville, or further afield who normally car-commute into DC to commute on their bikes down Beach Drive. This would slightly reduce the number of cars on the road...especially if some government org or advocacy group started promoting the idea...

Some quotes from the study:
In a sadistic way, I wish I commuted to downtown DC on Beach Drive so I could hold up the commute for car drivers. Maybe that would make them think about taking alternate, non-park routes...but I doubt it. I'd probably just get killed by some road-rage idiot.

genec

I hate to be the lone voice here...

But what is wrong with speed "tables?" If these are the things I think they are, they are nothing to a cyclist, but sure slow down the auto traffic.

There are a series of these very wide speed bumps on my commute, in front of a local elementary school. In a car, you can barely do 20MPH across these things... on a bike, you hardly notice the roll up and roll down on the other side... I take them at 18MPH and find them no problem at all.

If this is the kind of action it takes to tame motorists, I am all for it.

DeeMaGlee

genec: I don't know. You might have a point. I know that SUV drivers can cruise over them like they don't exist. I can easily cruise over speed bumps in my (small SUV) Subaru Forester...

If we're going to allow general traffic in the park, why stop there? Why not build a few high-rise condo buildings by Rock Creek so they can enjoy the scenery! A 7-11 would be nice too...

Ok, that's ridiculous I know...

genec

Well I agree that the ultimate idea would be to simply close the road... but no doubt that means widening some other road somewhere.

Regarding the speed tables... they slow down SUVs too. These are very tall and wide speed bumps... bikes just happen to travel at just the right speed to take these easily. Anything moving over about 25MPH will have problems with them... perhaps even bikes... I don't know... I take them at about 18MPH and they worked beautifully.

My wife drives a Land Cruiser and she changed her route to the store because of these things... so they do work. BTW she has a Land Cruiser to go off road as part of her work. She used to use a 4WD pickup.

scarry

The problem is too many cars. Single occupancy cars. Close the damn road.

derath

I hate it when you lose a post before you get to post it.

I have ridden beach drive numerous times during the week and it isn't too bad. Although never during rush hour (usually 10am or later).

It is a shame the gov't isn't more progressive in their thinking. IMO by closing beach drive permanently and starting a bike to work campaign they could help traffic congestion to offset closing the road. A closed beach drive would make for a kickass bike commuting route downtown. You could literally fly all the way down to Georgetown.

-D

PaulH

I agree that a closed Beach Drive would be great for bike commuting. However, I'm not sure that closing it to cars on weekends does anything other than reinforce the stereotype that bikes are basically for recreation.

Paul

DCCommuter

Agreed. It certainly reinforces the notion that bikes don't belong on that road when it's not closed.

dynaryder

I agree with closing it. One of my closest calls was a woman who just had to get by me one time. Rolled up on me leaning on the horn,then buzzed me going into a turn and almost clipped a car coming in the other direction. IIRC,wasn't there some radio guy who also griped about bikes on Beach?

A twisty,2 lane,25mph road is not a place to make time. They should just close it and be done with it.

derath

I don't know. I am all for this advocacy and being equal to cars. But sometimes, especially given the traffic situations, having a separate place to ride would be more beneficial.

if given the choice I would prefer a closed beach drive to having to commute on some of the really congested roads, such as Wisconsin. Closing beach drive i think would help because:

1. beach drive is tough to share to being with. Not only are there no shoulders, but much of it has a curb. On the plus side, especially for the VC crowd, that means we must take the lane. On the negative side it does as much to hurt our cause by pissing off the already irate commuting cagers.

2. Cycling would benefit most IMO by an increase in ridership. For the hardcore riders, coexisting with the traffic is ok. But having a safe place for cyclists would help increase ridership. The more we recruit onto bikes the bigger our voice.

I think closing beach drive permanently could have a great affect on the number of cycling commuters. On a closed beach drive I would bet good money you could blast into town during rush hour faster on a bike than in a car or metro.

Personally I would love to see a closed beach drive that ends up with so many cyclists, we have a virtual peleton every day.

-D

genec

Ah yes, the bike hiway concept...

Slow Train

One argument that proponents of closing the parkway full-time make is that, several years ago, the tunnel by the National Zoo was closed for repairs for several months. Despite the predictions of the gloom and doomers - no traffic snarls were detected along adjoining 16th or Connecticut Avenue!

Guest

First, I don't care about how the traffic flows up and down Wisconsin and CT- there shouldn't be so many cars out there to begin with. Maybe it'll teach them to carpool, take public transportation, or get a bike and join the rest of the cyclists on Beach Ave.

I was thinking if they closed Beach Ave, it would be seen as a major bike route, and it would encourage people to ride to work. I think it would make cycling less as a recreation and more of a commuting option.

I personally hate that path that runs along Rock Creek. It is tore up majorly bad, and I choose to ride the street. When I do, I can average up to 27 miles per hour (my personal best) and ride hard from MD to DC. A speed bump would mess with my rhythm. I don't like the idea of a speed bump. Why should I have to slow down to 18 miles per hour because cars constantly break the speed limit? :-/

Koffee

DCCommuter

Hey, that's a 25 zone and you're averaging 27? Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black!

Guest

Well, you know the speed limit changes from MD to DC.... sometimes the mph is 35 and sometimes it's 25. So I'm still in the safe zone.
Koffee

jpearl

It's very easy to say "close the road" and then tell everybody to ride to work, but this is an ineffective tactic for the following reasons:

- Not everybody lives within bicycle-commuting distance, and that in itself is suggestive since a feasable distance for one person is far too much for another.

- Not every workplace is bicycle-commuter freindly. I had the luxury of working at a design studio in NYC where the principle and I rode to work and kept our bikes in the studio. The company I currently work for is installing a shower, the result of advocacy from high-ranking emplyees who commute by bike. However, some workplaces have no room for bikes in the workplace, and some people need to show up clean and fresh in a suit ready for presentation.

What cycling advocates need to do instead of calling for roads to be closed is to promote bicycle commuter-friendly workplaces. We need to help companies understand how to accomidate the bicycles of employees (just "locking it up outside" is not acceptable for your carbon superbike). Facilities need to be provided both to help bicycle commuters get freshended up for thier day at work and to safely store thier bikes. Maybe bicycle commuters, upon assistance from thier workplaces', should recieve discounts on equipment for commuting purposes such as lights, bags, and safety gear like helmets. Municipalities can print maps for commuters (DC has an excellent one).

In short, before making big demands for road closure, we should be focusing on the finite details that will make bicycle commuting an option for emloyees that isnot only attractive for environmental, economic, and healt purposes, but is also practical and feasable for employers and employees alike. Then, when bibcyle commuting becomes more mainstream, calls to redirect traffic or even just to improve roads for bicycle commuters won't seem like such an abstract call from the obscure part of left field.

Guest

I say we can do both at once.

I think this area of the country has a LOT of cyclists already, even if no other employers in this area offer bike friendly options for their employees. There's no reason to not give better cycling routes and reward employers who encourage their employees to ride in to work.

Koffee

Slow Train

+1

Let's not make this a Chicken or the Egg type of argument. If I were emperor I would decree:

1) That all newly constructed office building provide sufficient, covered and secure parking for cyclists.
2) Sufficient locker room and shower facilities - not only for cyclists but for other exercisers.
3) That new office buildings that don't want to provide this on their own and existing buildings that can't be retrofitted be able to form co-ops to delegate these requirements to a nearby facility such as a gym or bike commuter station.

Closing Rock Creek Park to automobiles would be a major demonstration that government really does want to solve the problem.

If the problem is that we are choking on too many cars than it would seem to be on the first order to stop swallowing any more!

FastFreddy

The point about facilities is important. In a white-collar city like DC, many if not most workers need to be able to wash and change at the workplace to make bike commuting viable.

And it’s not just “car vs. bike” – that transportation corridor is very well served by public transit.

Guest

I don't think public transit is an issue. Even if there were 3 buses and 2 trains that stopped every block, I would not take public transit unless it was absolutely necessary.

Koffee

Slow Train

Think about all that you are missing!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022301902.html

Slow Train

P.S. - my favorite story is the last one! You have got to read it.