Helmet Head

{{I addressed this in the Bike Lane Debate thread}}

Helmet Head

{{I addressed this in the Bike Lane Debate thread}}

MarkS

I don't disagree, but cast the net further wide -- anything about bike lanes that's odd or interesting as well. For instance, post #2 showed a "fine" bike lane being used to protect people working way off the pavement. To me that's ironic, because if the bike lane is safe enough for me to travel in, then why do these people feel the need to cone off a big chunk while they're working 10 feet away?

Underwear in the BL, "Share the Road" next to road kill, ... etc.

For instance, I can think of some pictures that I wished I had been able to include. The first was lost due to my flaky digital camera. It was an enormous pile of trash bags right alongside a dedicated bike path. I could smell it before I ever got to it. Another is that of a street cleaner running down the center lane of a dedicated bike path (didn't have the presence of mind to snap a shot -- but it happens every Friday).

Heh heh. There was a picture that lacked resolution that I didn't post. I was biking along olympic highway when I noticed all the pebbles in the roadbed. I stopped to unload my jacket and then, looking down, noticed that they weren't pebbles. There were dozens, maybe hundreds of snails in the gutter and path stretching for blocks. I guess they were applying the principle: "Slower traffic stay right".

Edit: I've added the snails image. You will need to blow it up 200% on your screen to see what I'm talking about. All those little white things in the gutters -- they're not pebbles -- they're snails.

sbhikes

Look at this doozy. It's awful. I can't imagine why anybody would use such a terrible death trap.

By the way, they put this in in 1976 for some big deal bike route way back then.

MarkS

I can't tell -- If you're being facetious, you're supposed to use one of the many fine emoticons to tip off the hard-of-thinking.

It looks great from here. Clean. Wide. Of course, they all look great when there's no cars on them . <-- EMOTICON IN USE

Is that a one-way street? (can't see if the cars on the left are facing us). I don't see any striping on the left hand side ... in which case ... what happened? We'll keep you safe going to work but not coming back?

sbhikes

Yes it's a one-way street. There's a mirror-image street one block over.

Sorry for the lack of emoticon. You see, HH was finally so persuasive that I've seen the light. I found Jesus. I realize the error of my ways. You won't find me in that death trap. Nope, I'll be hugging the center of the left lane on that street like a real vehicle.

Helmet Head

Diane, if you wanted to design that street specifically to increase the likelihood of a motorist right hooking a cyclist, you wouldn't have to change a thing.

yama

This is a bike lane in a German town. Looks very nice at first sight. Speed limit on the road is 30 km/h (equals ca. 20 mph I guess). It's going downhill, so can easily achieve speeds higher than the actual speed limit.



How fast would you drive?

But if you dare to use this bikelane, you are lured into a dangerous trap, because you can't see whats around the corner because of the vegetation. The same is true for the oncoming motorists from the right.
At the intersection the lane sweeps to the right onto the sidewalk right into oncoming traffic:




90% of the motorist don't stop in front of the lane but stop at the line of sight next to the road, so you can imagine what happens.

MarkS

Maybe 10MPH (16KPH) ? Its beautiful -- too beautiful. How do they keep pedestrians off? It looks like they have the path going exactly where pedestrians are going to want to walk, with no accompanying sidewalk. What is that red surfacing? Is it red cement? Special asphalt? If its cement, then it must be scored every few feet, which may suppress the desire to go faster.

Yipes! A motor path going across a bike path, and no signage? Where's all that much-vaunted German engineering prowess when you need it? Basically, its a sidewalk, no matter what they call it.

Thanks for the pictures!

galen_52657

I like all the wrought-iron fencing along the bike 'path' and around the trees. That would be fun to fall and whack yourself on....

Dchiefransom

If you want to make it look like half of MY right hook incidents, just remove the bike lane and make two normal traffic lanes. Have the cyclists ride right down the center of the right hand lane.

sbhikes

That is absurd. And how do you think it would work better with no lanes to guide the traffic?

Why is it that you see a piece of asphalt as wide as any traffic lane and just because it says "bike lane" on it you suddenly paint it with the brush of anti-bike lane terror? Anybody riding in that bike lane will be where you would place them if the right hand lane were a regular lane, and yet just becasue of the paint you scream "right hook right hook!"

Follies is the perfect name for this thread.

MarkS

Diane, this was a thread showing real life bike lanes and oddities related to them. Its rude of you to barge in and change the topic. HH was willing to take the BL debate somewhere else, so why don't you do the same?

Bekologist

Naw, Dianes' bike lane scares the heck out of me. Are those pine needles off in the distance?

noisebeam

Here is a temporary follie due to construction. They should put up a sign well in advance to let cyclist know to merge left and to let motorist know cyclist will be doing so. It caught me off guard and I didn't have time to move into main travel lane earlier enough. In the video you can see me my shadow and me signaling left and looking over my shoulder twice. The sun was right behind me and I couldn't see very well (not at all in mirror). I need to make a left turn shortly after so I moved into center of lane and stayed there after the truck passed.

Video (420kb, right click, save target as..., open from local drive)

Now of course one could argue I should ride over it, but when approaching at speed one can often not tell how bad it is until too late. The real danger is the tire swallowing crack to the left of the plate.

ps-keep this on track and your childish behavior elsewhere.

Al

Helmet Head

It's one thing to disagree with me. It's quite another to still, after all this time, not be able to look at that photo and at least understand WHY I would call it a folly (and since I do, I feel explaining why is within the spirit of this thread).


Of course. The key effect in this case is how the paint that declares that part of the pavement to be a bike lane affects right-turning motorist behavior, especially in the presence of bicyclists.

As has been noted, right hooks can happen even to cyclists riding vehicularly in a centerish position of the rightmost right-or-straight lane (some motorists, instead of slowing down and getting behind you, will still pass you in the left lane, and then cut right in front of you, often misjudging your speed).

However, my point was that if you wanted to increase the likelihood of right hooks on such a street, you would designate the section where cyclists should ride to be a bike lane, thus discouraging motorists from driving there behind the cyclists even more, and encouraging the right hook behavior. In the first case, turning left from a lane to the left of a straight-or-right lane is blatantly wrong, and most motorists know this (not that it stops all of them). But turning left from a lane to the left of a bike lane is not as blatantly wrong (in fact, is the law in some states, like OR and AZ), so even more motorists are likely to do it.

That's why I said if you wanted to design that street to increase the likelihood of right hooks, you would leave it as is. Disagree if you want, but at least understand that the basis (in this case) of my argument is not the effect on the bike lane on cyclist lane positioning, but the effect of the bike lane on the behavior of right-turning motorists.

Helmet Head

I am going to use this to support one of my assertions in my latest post to Brian in the Bike Lane Debate thread. Thanks.

I-Like-To-Bike

OoH-ooh! Another Rude-ee whining like a little girl about someone else's post not meeting his own interpretation of un rude-ee netiquette. Diane posted a a picture of a bike lane just like the OP with her comments, what's so dang rude-ee about that? Other than that she doesn't get all odd about the sight of a bike lane? What is YOUR problem that those who don't share your visions must be banished to the Wasteland/Wonderland for re-eduction by inhumane HH debating techniques?


Why don't you take your rude-ee whining about bike lanes to the same bike lane thread Wonderland with HH and wallow in the oddities with him?

MarkS

Dear I-Like-To-Whine,

You would know more about whining like a little girl then I would, since you do such an incredible amount of it. It gets so tiring, that you are the only one in the forum that I've ever put on my ignore list. Just removed you yesterday. That was a mistake.

I never complained about Diane's photo. That was fine, though not especially interesting. I was referring to her unnecessary insult in post #37 -- with no photo.

One of the things that makes HH more convincing is that he is civil, and attempts to use logic and reason. I'm not 100% convinced that BLs should be removed, but I'm more moved that way by his discussion then ad hominem attacks and labeling.

I-Like-To-Bike

If you are moved and convinced by HH's "logic and reason" that is YOUR problem.

LittleBigMan

We're a bit off topic....

Wait, I'm hungry...what...what were we just talking about?

Helmet Head

One of the differences between you and me is that you personalize everything, even "logic and reason".
Either something is logic, or it isn't. There is no "Mark's logic" or "HH's logic" or "ILTB's logic".

Yes, we sometimes refer to "X's logic" meaning "the logic presented by X", but if it is logic and reason, then why wouldn't you be moved by it? And if it's not logic and reason, then why refer to it as if it is?

Why does it matter who presents it? So many of you are resistant to being "moved and convinced" by logic and reason simply because of who is presenting.

Consider the field of politics, and George Bush and Bill Clinton. There are some people who are moved by almost everything Bush says, but almost nothing Clinton says. Others are the opposite. Not me. I'm moved by some of the things they both say, and I find much of what both say to be neither logical nor reasonable. I don't care who is saying it, what matters to me is what is being said.

Take this post as another example. Can you evaluate whether it is logical independent of the fact that it was written by me, or not?

genec

1976, eh? How about the bicentennial... for which the "Bikecentennial" was created... an effort to make some huge transAmerican connections across the US. I rode several of those routes while touring in the early 80's.

Google for more info... however I did not see a specific Bikecentennial site... just folks writing about it.

I-Like-To-Bike

Follies, or was it Foolies? Whatever, mention the word B-L and the usual Foolies rant about the same old follies.

Bekologist

mmm...brownies.