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  1. #1
    bac
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    2,600 dead and 330,000 injured ... REVISED!!

    Hmmm, that seems like an acceptable cost for being able to jabber on the phone while driving, eh? I guess money is the ultimate king and determinate of our safety.

    Since @ least 2,600 (THIS YEAR!) of us cannot ... I'd like to give 2 big thumbs up to the following:

    -The cell phone industry
    -Our government officials

    Hey, 904 injuries and 7 deaths EACH DAY sounds like a bargain to me. ThanX again guys!



    Oppps - forgot to include the linx!!!!

    http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/new...ellphones.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/02/pho....ap/index.html
    Last edited by bac; 12-02-02 at 05:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Hardly surprising. Of course, if anyone believes any of the "research" from car/phone companies, they will say that blabbing on phones was totally irrelevant in all those deaths . Personally I've never understood the obsession with the cell/mobile phone craze. I had one a few years ago and ended up getting rid of it because it was more trouble than it was worth, and ultimately nothing more than an annoyance.

    Can't people just wait five minutes to carry on their conversation? Or are their deep and meaningful conversations (things like "yeah, I'm walkin' down the street) really the extent of their pathetic, miserable lives.
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  3. #3
    Sir Crashalot Airborne's Avatar
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    yeah, but nobody points out 9,000 people a year die of food poisoning.

    http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9605/24/food.poisoning/

    shall we stop eating?

    i talk and drive unfortunately a lot (sales rep) and its a necessary evil. i have had close calls and missed exits from it, so i admit it is distracting.

    the number of deaths though in a car are 2x as high from people adjusting THE RADIO (about 5K a yr - from scare tactic memos from my company on accident stats...).

    and number one? back seat distractions - soccer moms...

    cell phone bans are just another inflated incorrect conspiracy theory designed to take some more of our freedom away.

    remember, you have a better chance of dieing from that bad cheeseburger...
    keep the rubber side down!

  4. #4
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Airborne
    i talk and drive unfortunately a lot (sales rep) and its a necessary evil.
    Here in Queensland where talking on these things while driving is actually banned, many sales reps simply pull over to the side of the road for 2 minutes to have their conversations. It doesn't seem to have killed their careers just yet. At least, not as effectively as a cell-phone inspired crash would kill the career of someone who didn't comply.

    Originally posted by Airborne

    remember, you have a better chance of dieing from that bad cheeseburger...
    The difference being that if I eat that bad cheeseburger, it is my choice and mine alone. If some **** blabbing on the phone runs me down, it wasn't my choice at all. Are we talking about freedom here?
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  5. #5
    Sir Crashalot Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chris L


    Here in Queensland where talking on these things while driving is actually banned, many sales reps simply pull over to the side of the road for 2 minutes to have their conversations. It doesn't seem to have killed their careers just yet. At least, not as effectively as a cell-phone inspired crash would kill the career of someone who didn't comply.



    The difference being that if I eat that bad cheeseburger, it is my choice and mine alone. If some **** blabbing on the phone runs me down, it wasn't my choice at all. Are we talking about freedom here?
    got me on the first point. thats my company's policy too (to pull over - i have limited my use recently to highways only...one step at a time... damn type A personality...

    but bad cheesburgers? you have no choice there (!?!). when was the last time you spotted food poisoning? i think you MAY have a shot of a swerving motorist coming at you. you got NO CHANCE when it comes to poor food at a restaurant for example, and a 3x better shot of getting killed by it too. my point is, i think the powers that be are not keeping their eyes on the ball.
    keep the rubber side down!

  6. #6
    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    ok, about 5 years ago i had a one-hour car commute on the highway to work for 6 months! uh, that was miserable! anyway, i bought a cell phone for the explicit purpose of using it on the drive to make use of the time as well as quell the boredom, so i understand the mentality behind cell-phone usgae...

    it has to do with attitude: if you blindly accept that massive auto usage is just a fact of life and you are willing to ignore/downplay the associated dangers and you are expecting to spend 2 or more hours per day in your car, then using a cell phone while driving fits in to the lifestyle: since i'm going to be in the car so often, why not?

    anyway, i now believe that the risks are not worth the convenience and cell phones usage should not be allowed while driving -- i know from personal experience that it is a distraction and also, just because of ettiquette it is usually unacceptable to suddenly throw the phone down and quit talking if something needing your attention arrises - you wait and politely tell the person to hold on - but these 2-10 seconds can be VERY important in driving! -- thus it can be quite dangerous.
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  7. #7
    bac
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    Originally posted by Airborne
    the number of deaths though in a car are 2x as high from people adjusting THE RADIO (about 5K a yr - from scare tactic memos from my company on accident stats...).

    and number one? back seat distractions - soccer moms...

    cell phone bans are just another inflated incorrect conspiracy theory designed to take some more of our freedom away.

    remember, you have a better chance of dieing from that bad cheeseburger...
    My point is that "drivers" don't need yet another distraction on the road. As for your cheesburger issue - we all HAVE to eat. We all do not have to talk on the phone while driving a potentially lethal weapon.

    Would your attitude change if your mother or brother were among the dead or seriously injured this year?

  8. #8
    Sir Crashalot Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bac


    Would your attitude change if your mother or brother were among the dead or seriously injured this year?
    i'd still use my cell phone in the same fashion. sorry
    keep the rubber side down!

  9. #9
    山馬鹿 Spire's Avatar
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    People might die, but I absolutely must chat to my friend or conduct business. Business is more important than human life.

    Give me a break!

    Follow New York, ban cellphones in cars.
    http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.

  10. #10
    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    well, maybe not for the right reasons, but i do think the trend will continue and more states will ban conventional cell-phone usage while driving, but as in Europe, "hands-free" cell phone usgae will still be legal. i'm assuming that's the case in NY, but not sure.

    many cell phone companies actually support this as they have another accessory to sell while simultaneously improving their image (not linked to being unsafe). and other groups like AAA and insurance companies will probably view the safety gained as worth the requirement that "real" users buy a hands-free unit.
    why drive when you can ride?
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  11. #11
    山馬鹿 Spire's Avatar
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    Many studies have concluded that the danger does not come from the holding of the cellphone, but the act of talking on it. The addition of the hands-free unit only has a nominal safetly advantage. Somebody talking on the phone is distracted from the road (whether it is a hands-free or regular phone). The same is true talking to a person in the passenger seat, but the difference generally is that the person in the passenger seat is also watching the road to some extent.
    http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.

  12. #12
    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    Spire, i agree, but banning hand-hand cell phones is the most important step.

    i did a quite search and yes, the NY ban is "to ban use of handheld cell phones while driving"

    from http://www.womanmotorist.com/ftrs/ny...nes-2001.shtml
    The law does permit drivers to use hands-free kits while talking on cell phones, which creates an opportunity for mobile electronics retailers, who tap into this new market.
    and yes, as i guessed above, companies are already hot to tap the NEW market for hands-free car cell-phone usage:

    from http://www.inetmi.com/whatsnew/pressrel/06-29-01.htm :: NEW YORK CELL-PHONE BAN NOT THE END OF COMMUNICATION IN CARS: Michigan-based Software Company Developing Solution for Reducing Driver Distraction
    "Hands-free devices are only part of the solution," said Dr. Will Fitzgerald, I/NET chief technology officer. "As the number of in-car devices and off-board services available to drivers multiply, safe driving requires a system that can carry on a natural dialogue with a driver and that knows about what is going on in a car, including potential distractions. Even voice commands are distracting if you struggle to remember what the commands are."
    i think within 5 years the majority of US states will have adopted a similar law if not the federal government. but the total outlaw of cell phone usage in cars is unlikely as the cell-phone and car companies have a lot of money to lobby with --- and Americans don't want to give up their convenience --- but buying an extra "hands-free" unit most of the die-hard cell phone users (like sales guys on the road) can live with
    why drive when you can ride?
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  13. #13
    山馬鹿 Spire's Avatar
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    The problem as I see it, is that ultimately, everybody will be using hands-free units (which I see many off in Montreal). However, this won't reduce the number of cell-phone related accidents (as cited before). In addition to hands-free units there have to serious impositions on using these units so that only people who really need them. The amount that people use cell phones in cars (whether a real phone or otherwise) has to be reduced!
    http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.

  14. #14
    Senior Member digger's Avatar
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    Maybe those accidents were caused by people who ate bad hamburgers, got sick while driving and tried to call an ambulance on their cell phone?



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  15. #15
    bac
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    Originally posted by Spire
    Many studies have concluded that the danger does not come from the holding of the cellphone, but the act of talking on it. The addition of the hands-free unit only has a nominal safetly advantage.
    Yup, I've also read similar studies. However, it's nearly impossible to convince the bulk of the public that hand-held units are unsafe. Just try now to convince this same group that hands-free units are nearly as dangerous.

    Couple that hurdle with the limitless money that the cell-phone industry has to hurl @ the decision makers (how many "studies" do you think that industry is going to create?), and this is turning into a battle that may not be winable.

    However, every time some mindless "driver" almost wacks me due to his cell phone conversation, I'm reminded why this is a battle worth fighting. That is, unless I'm one of the 2,600 killed this year. Then, someone else will have to take up the fight.

  16. #16
    Sprockette wabbit's Avatar
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    I saw that story on the news, about cell phones and it surprises me not at all. I have seen people blabbing on phones and wobbling along the road, when I'm out on rides. Sometimes, I'll say loudly, if their car window is open, "Watch out! That idiot is talking on his cell phone!" I have heard stories of plenty of near misses with cell phone talkers. I am sure that 99 per cent of those conversations are unneccessary. I can see having a cell with you, in case of emergency, but I am sure that most of those people are just blabbing about nothing. I was just corresponding by email with another guy who just had a horrible accident. He was hit by a car by a teenager who was talking on her cell phone. He broke his leg, hip, angle, pelvis, and his bike and everything he was wearing were totally trashed. He went right into the windshield! Fortunately, he's going to be okay, but it'll be a while. Teenagers are already involved in enough accidents in cars as it is, they don't need more distractions. I think it should be banned if the casualties are that high.
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  17. #17
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Once again, public safety is reduced to an economic equation, which I suppose is fine as long as the victim is in SOMEONE ELSE's family. We have an involuntary transfer of wealth from a cell phone user to his/her victim.

    If motorists want the freedom to distract themselves while driving, then they need to held strictly accountable for any motoring mayhem they may cause. Agreeing to settle within legally-mandated insurance policy limits (an anachronistic $35K in California) or pleading that "it was an accident" is NOT taking responsibility for one's actions.





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  18. #18
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    Cell phones are just one of many distractions a driver willingly or otherwise contends with. I've seen a women motoring along at 80 km/h putting on mascara; drivers trying to grab at dogs or kids in the back seat; a car load of teens with the stereo so loud they can't hear themselves let alone an emergency vehicle; people eating; and yes, people talking on the cell phone.

    Whenever I see someone driving dangerously while doing any of the above, I'm overcome with a desperate need to slap them upside the head.

    Whatever happened to driving being a privilege and not a right? I think there ought to be a law against stupid drivers....period.

  19. #19
    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    originally posted by rockymtn_girl
    Whatever happened to driving being a privilege and not a right?
    well that's exactly the problem. most people DO think that driving is a right and they can do whatever they want - "it's a free country, ya know?"

    plus money and business being more important than people or community. if it generates a profit, it must be good. also applies in regards to the environment and many social issues.

    these 2 attitudes that currently dominate US culture are very disturbing...
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  20. #20
    Carfree Retro Grouch hayneda's Avatar
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    I'd rather have a drunk driver behind me than someone on a cell phone. At least most drunks are trying to pay attention lest they get pulled over. I had people with cell phones glued to the ear pass me and never know that I was there.

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  21. #21
    bac
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    Originally posted by wabbit
    He was hit by a car by a teenager who was talking on her cell phone. He broke his leg, hip, angle, pelvis, and his bike and everything he was wearing were totally trashed. He went right into the windshield!
    That is a disturbing story, and I'd like to think that it's an isolated story. However, he was 1 of 904 people who get injured EVERY DAY in the country due to cell phone distracted "drivers". Luckily, he was not one of the 7 that are killed each and every day.

    Knowing that simple fact, it's difficult for me to believe that people still chat on the phone while driving. The only encouraging news is knowing that some of the 330,000 people who are injured each year BY these selfish bone-heads - ARE the selfish bone-heads. Charles Darwin - you are my hero.

  22. #22
    bac
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    Originally posted by Airborne
    yeah, but nobody points out 9,000 people a year die of food poisoning.

    http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9605/24/food.poisoning/
    What about the 330,000 injuries/year? Remember, you could be the next victim.

    I find it difficult to believe that if you were struck by a cell-phone driver, and rendered unable to work, BIKE or even feed yourself - that you would have the same attitude.

    You wouldn't.

  23. #23
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rockymtn_girl
    Whatever happened to driving being a privilege and not a right? I think there ought to be a law against stupid drivers....period.
    Agreed. I seriously believe we need to create a new offence on the roads called "basic stupidity". After some of the things I've seen drivers do around here (these include driving on the footpath!) I'd rather remove these idiots before they kill someone.
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  24. #24
    Punk Rock Lives Roughstuff's Avatar
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    I have serious doubts about the methodology of these studies and i think its just a knee-jerk assumption that "cell phone user=rich guy=blame for all the worlds ills."

    Talking on a cell phone is no more absorbing or distracting than listening/fiddling with the radio or dealing with a carful of spoiled, snotsucking sniveling urchins; and I don't see anyone blaming children or talk radio for auto crashes. I think the best solution is to go to voice dialed sets that are part of the automobile itself, and the problem (if there is one) would be solved.

    roughstuff
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    I'm riding a few months ago, see this blue car off on the shoulder, driver talking on cell. I stop to thank her for not yakking and driving and it turns out she's a manger of one of the local school bus contractors--she'd happily push any cell-talking driver off the tallest building in town!

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