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Variable Gas Tax Collected at the Pump

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Variable Gas Tax Collected at the Pump

Old 03-22-06, 10:01 AM
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Variable Gas Tax Collected at the Pump

As most of you are probably aware, federal and state taxes are collected on each gallon of gasoline used as a motor fuel. The tax rate is identical, irrespective of the the type of vehicle into which the fuel is being pumped. A small fuel efficient car, a Honda Civic for example, is charged the same rate as a large, wasteful H2 Hummer.

I find this situation to be inequitable, there is no penalty for owners of large inefficient vehicles, that are purchased out of vanity, and cause high levels of pollution/road damage/accident injuries. I believe that this situation can be remedied, in part, by imposing variable gasoline tax rates at the pump. A variable gas tax would help to encourage the use of efficient cars and discourage the use of vanity rides like the SUV.

My proposal:

Install a small electronic transponder, similar to an electronic toll tag, at the filler neck of each vehicle. The transponder would identify the type of vehicle into which fuel was being pumped. A sensor on the gas pump nozzle would read the filler neck transponder info and charge the respective tax. A Honda Civic, for example, may be charged 25 cents/gallon, while an H2 Hummer would be charged $1/gallon.

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Old 03-22-06, 10:09 AM
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That's, well, pish, isn't it? Why do you find that situation inequitable? Sure, someone in a Civic will pay the same rate of tax as someone in a Hummer, but that Hummer driver is going to be paying MORE TAX, aren't they?

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Old 03-22-06, 10:32 AM
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I think it would be more fair and more practical to have a large excise tax (similar to sales tax) based on gas mileage. For every mpg under 50, there should be a $2000 tax. For example, a car that gets 20 mpg would be taxed $60,000. A car that gets 60 mpg gets a $20,000 tax rebate.
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Old 03-22-06, 10:32 AM
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You bring up a good point. Actually the high mileage vehicles should pay more.
After all, they are using the same highways for more miles, and paying less tax.
A Prius should pay double the amount of tax a H2 pays.
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Old 03-22-06, 10:33 AM
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I think a point was made here that this would not work. Drivers or large SUVs and small cars would not be able to refill their tanks safely at the same station without fearing name-calling or being sprayed and set on fire .
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Old 03-22-06, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by FXjohn
You bring up a good point. Actually the high mileage vehicles should pay more.
After all, they are using the same highways for more miles, and paying less tax.
A Prius should pay double the amount of tax a H2 pays
.
No.

The burning of gasoline creates social expenses that are not paid by the person buying the gasoline. In economics these are called externalities, as you probably know. These externalities include pollution of water and air, auto accidents, lost wages and taxes due to auto accidents, health problems such as asthma, and several others.
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Old 03-22-06, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FXjohn
You bring up a good point. Actually the high mileage vehicles should pay more.
After all, they are using the same highways for more miles, and paying less tax.
A Prius should pay double the amount of tax a H2 pays.
I like your thinking - a Prius is an inherently more dangerous vehicle than an H2, and one that makes me angry every time I see one. Why? Because it's a hybrid. And that just doesn't work.
I can just imagine the board meeting...
"Right lads, we need to look like we're doing something about saving the planet"
"How about a small car made of lightweight materials and using a newly developed, super efficient engine, we'll be clever about the aerodynamics too..."
"Two words - Audi A2 - and its bombing in the sales charts"
"Ah, yes"
"How about we invest some serious cash in fuel-cell technology?"
"Well, the Germans have been doing that for years and have yet to come up with anything sales-worthy"
"Of course, I forgot"
"How about an electric car?"
"I think the limited range would make it unsaleable outside cities where folk interested in that sorta thing would be cycling anyway"
"hmmmm"
"okay, how about this - we make a car that's the size of a normal family saloon, yet has a tiny engine and an electric motor"
"well that sounds stupid, but explain your reasoning"
"well, see, there's folk who want to look like they're doing something but don't actually care in reality. We make a car which *could* be driven on an electric motor, but probably won't be, have a complicated setup to recharge the huge lead-acid batteries eating up bootspace, and consequently have something that weighs about the same as a small SUV but label it 'eco friendly' because it doesn't always rely on petrol - what do you think?"
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Old 03-22-06, 10:47 AM
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"Prius" transponders for your Humvee will be on the market in no time.

Without resorting to name calling, I don't think it's a viable idea.
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Old 03-22-06, 10:54 AM
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Old 03-22-06, 11:00 AM
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Old 03-22-06, 11:02 AM
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The more gas you use, the more tax you pay. What's the problem?
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Old 03-22-06, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by recursive
The more gas you use, the more tax you pay. What's the problem?
I think very high gas taxes (say an increase of more than $5/gal or $1.25/l) would reduce consumption and help pay for the externalities. The only problem is that a high gas tax would be murder on middle class drivers, while hardly fazing the wealthier drivers. A stiff point-of-purchase tax on the gas guzzlers themselves would leave some options for middle- and low-income people.
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Old 03-22-06, 11:11 AM
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YOU GUYS AREN'T EVEN THINKING. There's nothing stopping someone from buying gas in 5 gallon jugs and saying it's for their moped or whatever.
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Old 03-22-06, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cruentus
...My proposal:

Install a small electronic transponder, similar to an electronic toll tag, at the filler neck of each vehicle. The transponder would identify the type of vehicle into which fuel was being pumped. A sensor on the gas pump nozzle would read the filler neck transponder info and charge the respective tax. A Honda Civic, for example, may be charged 25 cents/gallon, while an H2 Hummer would be charged $1/gallon.

Comments?
My solution:

I drive my Mirage to the gas station, fill the tank, drive it home, transfer the fuel to my van with a manual pump. Repeat as necessary.

New business opportunity:

I install a 200 gallon gas tank in a Prius. Fill it at the gas station. Pump the fuel to grateful owners of gas guzzlers for a profit.

Sound good?
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Old 03-22-06, 11:20 AM
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There are real issues commming down the pike for gas taxes. If you use the taxes for roads, hybrids will start eating in to road maintenance budgets. I'd like to see the red states come up to the blue state levels. Gas marketing, seems to erase the gas tax, in that the price that consumers pay is about the same, if you are in a high or low tax state.

The gas tax is by its nature an unfair, regressive tax. That is poor and rich pay the same. The state tax system looks really hard to get a handle on since everyone is making their own rules.

The following list is sorted by the highest to lowest paying states. PM me if you want this in an excel file with the notes from the pdf. All data here is from https://api-ec.api.org/filelibrary/mft010106.pdf.


State "Gasoline(cpg)" "Diesel (cpg)"
Wisconsin* 32.9 32.9
Pennsylvania 32.3 39.2
Washington 31 31
Rhode Island 30 30
North Carolina* 29.9 29.8
Ohio 28 28
Montana 27.75 28.5
Nebraska* 26.1 26.1
Maine 25.9 27
Connecticut* 25 26
Idaho 25 25
Utah 24.5 24.5
New York 24.25 22.5
Kansas 24 26
Oregon 24 24
Maryland 23.5 24.25
Massachusetts 23.5 23.5
Delaware 23 22
Nevada 23 27
North Dakota 23 23
Colorado 22 20.5
South Dakota 22 22
Arkansas 21.5 22.5
Iowa 20.7 22.5
West Virginia 20.5 20.5
D.C. 20 20
Louisiana 20 20
Minnesota 20 20
Tennessee 20 18
Texas 20 20
Vermont 20 26
Illinois 19 21.5
Michigan 19 15
Kentucky* 18.5 13.1
Alabama 18 19
Arizona 18 18
California 18 18
Indiana 18 16
Mississippi 18 18
New Hampshire 18 18
Virginia 17.5 16
Missouri 17 17
New Mexico 17 18
Hawaii 16 16
Oklahoma 16 13
South Carolina 16 16
Florida* 14.5 27.3
New Jersey 14.5 17.5
Wyoming 14 14
Alaska 8 8
Georgia 7.5 7.5

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Old 03-22-06, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
I think very high gas taxes (say an increase of more than $5/gal or $1.25/l) would reduce consumption and help pay for the externalities. The only problem is that a high gas tax would be murder on middle class drivers, while hardly fazing the wealthier drivers. A stiff point-of-purchase tax on the gas guzzlers themselves would leave some options for middle- and low-income people.
Very high gas taxes, imposed on large vanity vehicles, would force many people to abandon those vehicles in favor of a more reasonable ride. A downsizing of the national auto fleet would lower annual gas consumption.
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Old 03-22-06, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FXjohn
YOU GUYS AREN'T EVEN THINKING. There's nothing stopping someone from buying gas in 5 gallon jugs and saying it's for their moped or whatever.
As things stand now, motor fuel taxes are not collected on diesel fuel used to operate farm equipment and the like. What prevents someone from buying 400 gallons of diesel fuel, ostensibly for a tractor/combine, and then pumping it into a truck? Huge fines that are imposed for tax evasion are what prevents it.
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Old 03-22-06, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cruentus
As things stand now, motor fuel taxes are not collected on diesel fuel used to operate farm equipment and the like. What prevents someone from buying 400 gallons of diesel fuel, ostensibly for a tractor/combine, and then pumping it into a truck? Huge fines that are imposed for tax evasion are what prevents it.
In an ideal world, yes. Where trains run on time, roads are tarmacced perfectly, pretty girls want to kiss you and red wine flows from the taps like water. I know several farmers who run their cars on "red" diesel intended for their agricultural vehicles. If say, you get caught once every ten, even five years, the money you've saved on tax still isn't gonna be as much as the fine you get. Do you propose that for every case that there's a full and thorough investigation and then these people are fined more than what they've saved? Because that's ridiculous.
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Old 03-22-06, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cruentus
As things stand now, motor fuel taxes are not collected on diesel fuel used to operate farm equipment and the like. What prevents someone from buying 400 gallons of diesel fuel, ostensibly for a tractor/combine, and then pumping it into a truck? Huge fines that are imposed for tax evasion are what prevents it.
Don't bet on unlikely charges of tax evasion being effective for making farmers with Diesel powered luxury pickups become upright citizens on this matter.

I believe untaxed heating oil should also work in Diesel engines, just mix with a little kerosene for the winter. If I'm wrong on heating oil please feel free to correct.
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Old 03-22-06, 11:59 AM
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You're spot on. Over here we use used cooking oil in Diesels too to evade the stupidly-high fuel taxation...
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Old 03-22-06, 12:02 PM
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The only thing more inevitable than taxes is people trying to evade taxes!
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Old 03-22-06, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by misteralz
That's, well, pish, isn't it? Why do you find that situation inequitable? Sure, someone in a Civic will pay the same rate of tax as someone in a Hummer, but that Hummer driver is going to be paying MORE TAX, aren't they?
I suppose it is considered equitable giving gas tax relief to single people driving a sports car or fuel efficient luxury sport sedan to Aspen or the Big Sur over those "wasteful" family breadwinners who drive a car or van big enough to carry their family around town. That's of course assuming that those who would propose collecting a variable gas tax at the pump consider reality at all.
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Old 03-22-06, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cruentus
Very high gas taxes, imposed on large vanity vehicles, would force many people to abandon those vehicles in favor of a more reasonable ride. A downsizing of the national auto fleet would lower annual gas consumption.
My long range plan (when I'm finally in charge of the world) is to start with a tax on gas guzzlers, use the revenues to create truly workable public transportation, and only then hike up the gas taxes to slash the national (Hell, world!) fleet.

I would do the gas guzzler tax first to make it a little easier on middle class folks, until decent transit is in place to replace autos.
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Old 03-22-06, 12:09 PM
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Aye, it's easy to solve the world's problems standing on a soapbox I guess...
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Old 03-22-06, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I suppose it is considered equitable giving gas tax relief to single people driving a sports car or fuel efficient luxury sport sedan to Aspen or the Big Sur over those "wasteful" family breadwinners who drive a car or van big enough to carry their family around town. That's of course assuming that those who would propose collecting a variable gas tax at the pump consider reality at all.
That's why I want a gas guzzler tax instead of higher gas taxes, at least at first. Vans and station wagons, even pickups, are not necessarily inefficient, as you point out.
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