City of Cyclists
#1
無くなった
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sci-Fi Wasabi
Posts: 5,072
Bikes: I built the Bianchi track bike back up today.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
City of Cyclists
Wow - just watched this 20 min about biking in Copenhagen, and it looks truly amazing. I thought we had it good in Minneapolis, but we've got nothing on them:
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik...y/uk/index.htm
Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...
Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik...y/uk/index.htm
Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...
Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...
#2
lunatic fringe
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere, Columbia County, OR
Posts: 1,111
Bikes: 1980 Schwinn World Sport, 1982 Schwinn Super Le Tour, 1984 (?) Univega Single Speed/Fixed conversion, Kogswell G58 fixed gear, 1987 Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I watched that video recently and wanted to post a thread about it but the forum was going through the server changeover. It is well worth the time spent downloading..... I am on a cable connection and it took 5 minutes to download the 85mb file. I was impressed with the fact that 90% of the population owns a bike and over 30% use a bike to commute to work. The producers of the video point out that it took 30 years of continuing effort by the elected officials to get where they are today and goals have been set even higher for the future. Our municipal officials in this country could learn a lot from this film and local advocacy groups would be well advised to make sure that bicycle coordinators within government are shown how well it works in Copenhagen.
The video was reviewed on BikePortland.org on April fifth. There are also two download links on the BikePortland blog.
Dogbait
The video was reviewed on BikePortland.org on April fifth. There are also two download links on the BikePortland blog.
Dogbait
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by Dogbait
...it took 30 years of continuing effort by the elected officials to get where they are today...
#4
lunatic fringe
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere, Columbia County, OR
Posts: 1,111
Bikes: 1980 Schwinn World Sport, 1982 Schwinn Super Le Tour, 1984 (?) Univega Single Speed/Fixed conversion, Kogswell G58 fixed gear, 1987 Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by randya
And the investment of ~25% of their transportation budget. In the US, you're considered lucky if 1% of your local or state transportation budget goes towards bicycling.
Dogbait
#5
POWERCRANK addict
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Acton, West London, UK
Posts: 3,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by HereNT
Wow - just watched this 20 min about biking in Copenhagen, and it looks truly amazing. I thought we had it good in Minneapolis, but we've got nothing on them:
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik...y/uk/index.htm
Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...
Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik...y/uk/index.htm
Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...
Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...
thanks - very interesting
__________________
shameless POWERCRANK plug
Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!
shameless POWERCRANK plug
Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!
#6
Senior Member
I didn't watch the video but just thought I'd share some insight gathered during a short trip to Sweden and Germany at the beginning of this year. At our facility in Eskilstuna, Sweden, I was impressed at how many bicycle commuters were since I'm the only one at a much larger facility in PA. I got talking with a girl who commuted by bike and learned that those who commuted by bike only rode a few kilometers and she was impressed that I ride over 20kms round trip every day. Her opinion was that if those who biked had that long of a commute, they would not be biking.
Basically, the fact that our cities tend to be much larger and the fact that many people don't live in the same town as where they work (compared with the opposite impression that I got from the Europeans) means that we have less bicycle commuters. As long as people in the US don't consider a 30 minute drive to work excessive, not many are going to start biking to work. Bike facilities are not going to change that. I'd say about half of the cyclists I saw in Sweden were not even using the provided side paths (basically sidewalks but smoother and a little wider but shared with pedestrians).
Basically, the fact that our cities tend to be much larger and the fact that many people don't live in the same town as where they work (compared with the opposite impression that I got from the Europeans) means that we have less bicycle commuters. As long as people in the US don't consider a 30 minute drive to work excessive, not many are going to start biking to work. Bike facilities are not going to change that. I'd say about half of the cyclists I saw in Sweden were not even using the provided side paths (basically sidewalks but smoother and a little wider but shared with pedestrians).
#7
無くなった
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sci-Fi Wasabi
Posts: 5,072
Bikes: I built the Bianchi track bike back up today.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you'd watch the video, you'd see how they had all sorts of consessions for the bikers, not just facilities. The traffic lights are set to let the bikers go first, bike lanes have a curb on both sides keeping them from cars and peds...
Basically they've set up the entire infrastructure for bikes as the main form of transportation. I was impressed...
Basically they've set up the entire infrastructure for bikes as the main form of transportation. I was impressed...
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,258
Bikes: BikeE AT, Firebike Bling Bling, Norco Trike (customized)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Having just watched the video, I am very impressed. I was aware Copenhagen was a very bicycle-friendly city, but it was educational to see just how much importance it is given by local politicians and how naturally integrated cycling is among the citizens.
Some interesting observations I made, aside from the extensive infrastructure and facilities provided, was that most of the commuters did not wear helmets, but did use their hand-signals, seemingly for the benefit of their fellow-cyclists as opposed to motorists, congestion of cyclists on certain routes. There also was a distinct lack of honking or aggressive driving by motorists---wouldn't THAT be nice---and a remarkable carelessness about locking bicycles. That was indeed a surprise. We, in Toronto, have a bike sharing program, but I particularly liked Copenhagen's coin-operated (just like shopping carts) system.
I have forwarded the video and web-page to my city councillor who also happens to be the Chairman of the Toronto Bicycle Committee and sent it to the Mayor as well.
Some interesting observations I made, aside from the extensive infrastructure and facilities provided, was that most of the commuters did not wear helmets, but did use their hand-signals, seemingly for the benefit of their fellow-cyclists as opposed to motorists, congestion of cyclists on certain routes. There also was a distinct lack of honking or aggressive driving by motorists---wouldn't THAT be nice---and a remarkable carelessness about locking bicycles. That was indeed a surprise. We, in Toronto, have a bike sharing program, but I particularly liked Copenhagen's coin-operated (just like shopping carts) system.
I have forwarded the video and web-page to my city councillor who also happens to be the Chairman of the Toronto Bicycle Committee and sent it to the Mayor as well.
#9
無くなった
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sci-Fi Wasabi
Posts: 5,072
Bikes: I built the Bianchi track bike back up today.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by EnigManiac
I have forwarded the video and web-page to my city councillor who also happens to be the Chairman of the Toronto Bicycle Committee and sent it to the Mayor as well.
As far as the helmets, it seemed like at least the faster riders had them. It was mainly the people on the old school cruisers that didn't...
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by Dogbait
Roughly the equivalent of the percentage of those commuting by bike for both. If the percentage of commuters rose to >30% in the US, would they not have the political power and will to increase their share of the transportation budget? Chicken/Egg? As the number of bike commuters has increased in Stumptown over the past 30 years, so has the governments investment in cycling facilities.
Dogbait
Dogbait
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by joejack951
I didn't watch the video but just thought I'd share some insight gathered during a short trip to Sweden and Germany at the beginning of this year. At our facility in Eskilstuna, Sweden, I was impressed at how many bicycle commuters were since I'm the only one at a much larger facility in PA. I got talking with a girl who commuted by bike and learned that those who commuted by bike only rode a few kilometers and she was impressed that I ride over 20kms round trip every day. Her opinion was that if those who biked had that long of a commute, they would not be biking.
Basically, the fact that our cities tend to be much larger and the fact that many people don't live in the same town as where they work (compared with the opposite impression that I got from the Europeans) means that we have less bicycle commuters. As long as people in the US don't consider a 30 minute drive to work excessive, not many are going to start biking to work. Bike facilities are not going to change that. I'd say about half of the cyclists I saw in Sweden were not even using the provided side paths (basically sidewalks but smoother and a little wider but shared with pedestrians).
Basically, the fact that our cities tend to be much larger and the fact that many people don't live in the same town as where they work (compared with the opposite impression that I got from the Europeans) means that we have less bicycle commuters. As long as people in the US don't consider a 30 minute drive to work excessive, not many are going to start biking to work. Bike facilities are not going to change that. I'd say about half of the cyclists I saw in Sweden were not even using the provided side paths (basically sidewalks but smoother and a little wider but shared with pedestrians).
Last edited by randya; 04-15-06 at 06:01 PM.
#12
Dominatrikes
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Posts: 4,920
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The pdf is interesting too:
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/publikation...politik_uk.pdf
I especially like the graph and the paragraph that says when more people cycle, cycling becomes safer overall. So basically, whatever you can do to make more people want to ride bikes will make bike riding safer.
The whole site is much more positive and forward thinking than simply eeking out an existence on substandard roads with alpha-dog steely-eyed stares and defiant lane sharing tactics.
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/publikation...politik_uk.pdf
I especially like the graph and the paragraph that says when more people cycle, cycling becomes safer overall. So basically, whatever you can do to make more people want to ride bikes will make bike riding safer.
The whole site is much more positive and forward thinking than simply eeking out an existence on substandard roads with alpha-dog steely-eyed stares and defiant lane sharing tactics.
#13
Senior Member
Originally Posted by randya
Hypothetically, think about how long you want to spend on your commute. 30 Minutes? That's either roughly 15 miles +/- by car or 7 miles +/- by bike. I agree the American suburbs are not conducive to bicycle commuting, and that's why I would never live in the American suburbs. I've got a 10 minute / 3 mile commute by bicycle to my office. I intentionally chose to live in an inner-city location in order for this to be so. I would never live 30 minutes from my job by either car or bike. Some people in metropolitan NYC commute 3 hours each way. That's just crazy!
#14
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,798
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,325 Times
in
837 Posts
Originally Posted by randya
Hypothetically, think about how long you want to spend on your commute. 30 Minutes? That's either roughly 15 miles +/- by car or 7 miles +/- by bike. I agree the American suburbs are not conducive to bicycle commuting, and that's why I would never live in the American suburbs. I've got a 10 minute / 3 mile commute by bicycle to my office. I intentionally chose to live in an inner-city location in order for this to be so. I would never live 30 minutes from my job by either car or bike. Some people in metropolitan NYC commute 3 hours each way. That's just crazy!
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#15
Dominatrikes
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Posts: 4,920
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Boy I must be really super slow. My 8.5 mile commute (each way) gives me about 1.75 hours of exercise each day.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 605
Bikes: Batavus Old Dutch
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Grrr, watching that made me VERY jealous. I emailed my city district representative and non-profit organization responsible for the current waves of gentrification around here the video in hopes that they *might* get inspired to do something like that here.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
wow... I am impressed... and alternately pissed off about how sh***y things are for cyclists here in America in comparison.
I want to visit there sometime soon.
I want to visit there sometime soon.
Last edited by o-dog; 04-16-06 at 12:56 AM.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,065
Bikes: Shasta Kiliminjaro, Optima Dragon Recumbent
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I wonder what happens on an extremely cold, snowy, or icy day? Is the mass transit all of a sudden, inundated with cyclists? Do a lot of people just skip going in to work (I can handle this)? This country is geographically pretty far north.
__________________
Jim
Make a BOLD Statement While Cycling!
Jim
Make a BOLD Statement While Cycling!
#19
hill hater
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: norton ohio 5.5 miles from center road tow path trail head
Posts: 2,127
Bikes: cannondale t400 1987 model and a raleigh gran prix from 1973
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by HereNT
Wow - just watched this 20 min about biking in Copenhagen, and it looks truly amazing. I thought we had it good in Minneapolis, but we've got nothing on them:
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik...y/uk/index.htm
Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...
Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...
https://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik...y/uk/index.htm
Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...
Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...
Is this a video showing eruopes bike road system? Ive seen pics but never the vid and at moment dont want to download got other stuff downloading. Its like places there were made eclusivly for bikes even where cars share the road.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,258
Bikes: BikeE AT, Firebike Bling Bling, Norco Trike (customized)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The videostated that 70% of cyclists continue to commute by bicycle through the winter, but I imagine on particularly stormy days, some would drive and others would take transit.
On an unrelated note, we must consider one of the fundamental differences between Copenhagen and most American cities (at least the ones I have visited) and that is that residents live relatively close to their places of employment and residential and commercial properties are intermixed. In every American city I have visited (LA, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Cleveland, New Orleans and Atlanta) the business area is deserted after 5pm and those areas were surrounded by often depressed commercial avenues and low-income urban neighbourhoods. The close-proximity Copenhagen and most other European cities as well as others (such as Vancouver) enjoy naturally fosters a pro-bicycling element. Here, in Toronto, we are much the same way. While industrial areas tend to be mostly in the suburbs where cyclig is less-popular, there are vibrant residential communities within walking distance of the business core, extensive condominium developments interspersed with or mere minutes away from the central business corridors and other office buildings are situated in defined residential neighbourhoods. That is why Toronto has almost as many cyclists as Copenhagen has. According to Now Magazine in 2004, there are an estimated 100,000 seasonal bicycle commuters in Toronto and 10,000 year-round. I would dispute those numbers, however, after comparing the number of cyclists seen in the video and the double-decker or sprawling 2,000-place parking facilities Copenhagen needs to accomodate its' advertised 90,000 cyclists. While UofT, in contrast, has a tremendous number of bike locking ring-posts, I doubt there are 2,000 spots throughout the complex like there were in the video. Still, I would hope our bicycling Mayor would make a greater effort to include some of the concepts Copenhagen has adopted and earn the bicycling vote in the upcoming election.
On an unrelated note, we must consider one of the fundamental differences between Copenhagen and most American cities (at least the ones I have visited) and that is that residents live relatively close to their places of employment and residential and commercial properties are intermixed. In every American city I have visited (LA, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Cleveland, New Orleans and Atlanta) the business area is deserted after 5pm and those areas were surrounded by often depressed commercial avenues and low-income urban neighbourhoods. The close-proximity Copenhagen and most other European cities as well as others (such as Vancouver) enjoy naturally fosters a pro-bicycling element. Here, in Toronto, we are much the same way. While industrial areas tend to be mostly in the suburbs where cyclig is less-popular, there are vibrant residential communities within walking distance of the business core, extensive condominium developments interspersed with or mere minutes away from the central business corridors and other office buildings are situated in defined residential neighbourhoods. That is why Toronto has almost as many cyclists as Copenhagen has. According to Now Magazine in 2004, there are an estimated 100,000 seasonal bicycle commuters in Toronto and 10,000 year-round. I would dispute those numbers, however, after comparing the number of cyclists seen in the video and the double-decker or sprawling 2,000-place parking facilities Copenhagen needs to accomodate its' advertised 90,000 cyclists. While UofT, in contrast, has a tremendous number of bike locking ring-posts, I doubt there are 2,000 spots throughout the complex like there were in the video. Still, I would hope our bicycling Mayor would make a greater effort to include some of the concepts Copenhagen has adopted and earn the bicycling vote in the upcoming election.
#22
Prefers Cicero
Originally Posted by oilfreeandhappy
This country [Denmark] is geographically pretty far north.
#23
Prefers Cicero
Originally Posted by nova
Is this a video showing eruopes bike road system? Ive seen pics but never the vid and at moment dont want to download got other stuff downloading. Its like places there were made eclusivly for bikes even where cars share the road.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,258
Bikes: BikeE AT, Firebike Bling Bling, Norco Trike (customized)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
see my thread 'Velo-city Vision' regarding a fanciful, but perhaps plausible plan for Toronto.