Blue Order

I've been thinking about the absence of courtesy in traffic interactions lately. I did a fair bit of walking today. On one corner, I was waiting to cross the street, and a truck in the middle lane stopped for another pedestrian, and then gave me the right of way, too, but I told him to go on because other cars were approaching. I could have just stepped out into the street and taken the right of way, probably throwing in a few steely-eyed alpha dog stares at the approaching vehicles while I was at it, but I didn't. Instead, I waited about 5 seconds for the cars to pass, and then crossed the street.

A few blocks later, I again had the right of way, but a bike was approaching from about a block away. I could have stepped out into the street, taken the right of way, again throwing in a few steely-eyed alpha dog stares at the approaching bicycle, and made him stop and let me pass. But I didn't. Instead, I let him pass, and then crossed the street.

Why didn't I just take the right of way? It was, after all, legally mine.

Because I was extending a courtesy to the bicyclist (and to the truck driver a few blocks back). It was easier for me to cede the right of way than it was for the bicyclist to stop, so I ceded it. Same with the vehicles a few blocks back. I lost about 5 seconds on each corner-- no big deal-- but it made their day a bit easier.

I think that's what's missing in so many bicycle/motor vehicle interactions. Even in mv/mv interactions, really. Just a simple lack of common courtesy. Nobody is willing to give anybody else on the road a break. And all so they can save what-- a few seconds time? I read way too many comments here about staring down motorists with patented alpha dog stares, but nothing about cooperating together on the roads. I can't help but wonder if that kind of dog-eat-dog attitude is self-perpetuating, and hurts cyclists more than it helps.

Comments? Observations?

Falkon 

If I stop at a red light and a car is behind me, I wave them to pass. Why? well, Notion or not, they accelerate faster, so I figure I should let them go ahead.

-=(8)=-

Almost any of my posts lament the uncivilness in todays society.
Everyone is in a hurry and even going to wait at a drive thru window
is of the utmost urgency. It is pointless to try to change peoples views.
I just accept that that is sadly the way it is and conduct my affairs
accordingly.

Gurgus

Too true. Whats the rush? You're just going home to sit on the couch and watch re-runs of "Law and Order" anyways. Take your time, stop and smell the roses.
I take my time (it drives my wife crazy). I just don't see the point of rushing everywhere. The end result is the same and I don't know about you, but I'm in no hurry to get there.

randya

It is an inherently American trait to try and outdo the next person, rushing from place to place, trying to be first, all very competitive.

I beleive we're trained this way in our schools - in everything from math and science to athletics - which are still based on 19th century Prussian schooling techniques.

sbhikes

Don't you know your behavior constitutes wimpy acquiescence and an internalization of the Notion that you should get out of the way? You're giving in. How can we win the battle against the Notion if you compromise your rights all the time like that?

foible

I like the premise of this post but I'm going to play devil's advocate for a bit. Using the right of way is the predictable thing to do, predictable is safe, and being safe is the courteous thing to do. A crash screws up everybody's day.

In practice I agree with this thread, if you come to an agreement with the other participant over who has priority then you're still being predictable, still being safe, and even being polite.

Roody

I see nobody disagreed with you, so you have to troll a little deeper. I'll humor you and try to provide another viewpoint. Of course, you've already declared that anybody who disagrees with you is a savage, so you have pre-replied to my post.

Seriously, I think that civility is highly overrated when it comes to traffic. For example, if I was the driver and saw pedestrian Diane poised on the curb, holding herself back with one foot in the air, I would wonder if she really was yielding the ROW, or if she was just unaware of my presence. I would stop for her, she would wait for me, the whole transaction would be ambiguous and uncertain. As an equally "polite" driver, I would probably get into one of those pointless "Oh no, I insist, you go first" arguments, with lots of feeble little waves and glances. These mostly make me want to choke myself.

Basically, civility can turn around and bite you in the butt. Right of way rules work much better than "politeness" all around. For example:

• A driver or cyclist stays in place to let a right turner in after the light turns green. Traffic behind them is delayed while the turner waits there, hood stuck out into the outer lane, looking for the chance to take the inner lane. By being courteous to one person, the first driver delays 30 or 40 others. How is that courteous?
• The 4 way stop dilemma. Everybody is so polite that nobody can get through the intersection. The 4 way is cleared more efficiently when everybody follows the ROW rules.
• On a multilane road, a driver stops to let a pedestrian cross in the middle of the block. The pedestrian is then creamed by the car in the inner lane that didn't see him.

So if you have the ROW, use it, and don't take it if it doesn't belong to you. When exceptions to the ROW rules are made, for politeness, expedience or any other reason, there must be clear and effective communication between all parties.

The Rob

It feels very good when a courteous act is rewarded with smiles. The whole day seems to brighten.

On my route to and from work (Milwaukie Ave., for those who know it), there are several crosswalks. It's illegal to cross these when pedestrians are in them or are waiting to cross. You wouldn't know this from the actions of many motorists who drive through them, but I take them seriously. On quite a few occasions I've approached a crosswalk to find pedestrians on the curb watching as vehicles drive through unmindful, and I've stopped to allow them to cross. The looks on their faces (delight and surprise!), and the many "Thanks!" I've gotten, are priceless. It's not one-way, either; many times I've been waved through an intersection by polite and smiling (!!!) motorists when we have chanced to arrive at the same time.

There's always room for improvement, but it's not all wailing and teeth-gnashing out there.

jamesdenver

re: walking

I take the right of way all the time, but I'll discretely make sure the person sees me. Obviously if McDonald's, cell phones take priority over them seeing me, I don't go in front of a car.

The problem with making eye contact is that they know you see them, and will not yield. So often I feign like I'm stepping into the crossing without seeing them.

But if I know they have adequate time to stop, and they see me, I always take the lead and pretend to be obivious, when I'm completely aware of my surroundings.

Call me James Bond.

newbojeff

Got to agree. Though I probably have some type of confrontational run-in with a motorist about once a week, I'd say these are dwarfed by (attempted) acts of consideration on almost every ride. The best example is at stop signs where I very frequently have motorists wave me through, yeilding their turn at the stop.

I agree with other posts about the dangers of confusion when everyone is trying to be polite. I address this with a "point-and-nod" maneuver. When I'm yeilding the ROW or I just want someone to go, look 'em right in the eye, point at them and nod your head. They are on their way, frequently with a wave of thanks, have a better view of cyclists, and all is bright with the world.

(I'll save the story about getting yelled at as a "G-D bike nazi!!" for later, after the anticipated accusations of being a wuss.)

burden

As a pedestrian, I'm rigorous about asserting my rights of way, because drivers here are prone to taking whatever small liberties are available to them, regardless of the needs of folks on foot. The crosswalk, the sidewalk -- these are mine and I'm inclined to defend my right to exist in them without fear and without two-ton moving obstacles. I refuse to "cooperate" with people who have no regard for my well-being or for space which has been explicitly defined as walkable, and who seem to believe that indulging automobile traffic is the purpose of a city and its inhabitants.

It isn't about saving time, nor about being the "alpha dog". If I wanted either of those things, I probably wouldn't be walking.

As a cyclist, I tend to be somewhat more accomodating in negotiating rights of way, because both the driver and I are rightfully in the street -- in the same shared space. I'll assert myself as needed for my own safety, but I don't care about being First.

cc_rider

When I took driver's ed (years ago in New Jersey) I was taught that you should never take the right of way, you should only yield it. Guess they don't teach that anymore.

Good topic, BO.
Every time someone on these forums posts that they don't warn pedestrians on the mup's that they are approaching and passing, that they just buzz on by, I think "Where's the courtesy? How can these people expect any courtesy from drivers if they're not willing to give any to the pedestrians and slower cyclists?"
I'm sure that they are ordinarily nice people, but put them behind a handlebar and they turn in to thoughtless goons.

chipcom 

You hit the nail on the head. A bit of courtesy goes much farther towards making EVERYONE'S experience on the roadways safer and more pleasant than assertivness, aggressiveness and blind obedience to some wacky dogma.

Helmet Head

I regularly yield the right of way to others when I legally/technically could have it if I want it, whether I'm cycling or driving my car. Doesn't everyone?

I don't think anybody does it every time there is an opportunity, and some do it more often than others, but I think most everyone does it once in a while.

I know I'm less likely to do it if I'm in a hurry for some reason than if I'm not. I expect this applies to others as well.

JLauren

I do the same thing, so long as I'm in a position where I can safely wait out and be passed by the motorized traffic. Did this today, even.

I also try to pay attention to what's coming up behind me, and will adjust my speed so they'll catch me in a place where it's safe for them to pass. Doesn't always work, but I know the roads pretty well, and it's not hard to hammer for a few seconds to get over that hill, or slow down a bit so they can pass me on the straightaway. Did a lot of that today too.

If I see someone coming out from a side street, I'll slow down and wave them on so they don't have to pass me.

Heck, I know I'm a lot slower than the other traffic, even on the 45mph roads . I'll do what I can to "share the road" as safely as I can. A key is to simply and clearly communicate to the drivers what I'm letting them do.

DCCommuter

What drives "common courtesy" is empathy -- you feel for the other person, because you can put yourself in their position, so you're inclined to do something that might help them if it has little or no cost to yourself. A big problem in motorist-cyclist interaction is that most motorists have never ridden a bicycle in traffic, so they have no idea what it's like. Virtually all adult cyclists are also drivers, so cyclists generally have an idea of what concerns drivers, but the perspective of the road from atop handlebars is very different than from behind a windshield. To give an example: recently, I was riding on a local road with a 25 mph speed limit, and I was going 23, and I thought I was keeping a pretty good pace. A few days later I had the opportunity to drive it, and I tried going the speed limit and it felt painfully and unnaturally slow -- and I'm a slow driver.

chephy

I will agree, and not for the sake of strengthening the devil's advocate's case ; I just really believe that. While riding, my boyfried liked to wave cars through if he is turning left on an intersection governed by 4-way stops, especially if he wasn't blocking the lane while waiting. I taught him out of this, fortunately, because it created an immense amount of confusion! There is also a thread here somewhere about how annoying it is to cyclists when motorists wave them through stop signs. I think courtesy means following the rules of the road, and in particular taking the right of way when it's yours.

This is not to say there aren't exceptions to this. But one has to think hard and make sure there is no possibility of confusion before yielding the right of way to someone...

chephy

Congratulations! You should try it more often! Might eventually feel less painful after a while.

genec

But with the speed limit at 25MPH, motorists shouldn't be trying to push it higher. The problem is that motorists often get disconnected from what they are doing because of the isolation of the closed "cockpit" of their vehicle. They are out of touch with their environment.

Try that same street with your windows rolled down and you might find it much easier to drive the speed limit... which then is a courtesy to those living on that street... rather than racing down the street, which is what many drivers are prone to do.

Also simply because one can do it, is not justification for doing it... was the street residential, were kids playing about, was there a school nearby? Just because you CAN drive fast, doesn't mean you should... and that clearly is a problem with a lot of drivers that bask in the "Zoom Zoom" school of driving.

anchojoe

[QUOTE=cc_rider]When I took driver's ed (years ago in New Jersey) I was taught that you should never take the right of way, you should only yield it. Guess they don't teach that anymore.

As a learning driver in the sixties, I also was taught this concept; The right of way cannot be taken, only given.

Halfstep

Although I never took driver's ed, this is exactly what my mother and father taught me and I hope to pass it on to my children.

Most people find it hard to believe, but I always drive the speed limit. Unless I'm driving slower. It is the speed "limit" after all, not the speed "requirement." I've lost count of the number of gaping mouths after I've made that statement at parties.

I totally and completely agree with you, Gurgus. I wish people would sit down and do the math. They might realize how little time they really gain by pushing the speed limit by five or even ten MPH. And that's not even taking into account traffic and lights. It doesn't add up to any time gained.

I just realized I've posted about this before. I'll stop, now. The soap box is open.

Helmet Head

Very true in urban/suburban environments.

But on long drives of hundreds of miles of open road, going 80-90 instead of 60 can get one to his destination hours earlier... Or so I hear... ;-)

The Human Car

As in all things there is a balance but I strongly believe if you want people to be courteous you need to be courteous. And if you get upset by people’s lack of patience in experiencing small delays you need to be willing to experience small delays yourself.

gritface

Me too, but I didn't until I actively started road cycling in traffic. Also stopping at stops signs became a huge deal to me after I started walking frequently.

I've been carrying my 5 month old son in a backpack on the same routes and I get a crazy amount of courtesy that didn't exist before. He's too young for a bike trailer, but I imagine that you would also see more consideration with a child in tow. Then again, it depends on the person (high school student vs. parent) and the level of distraction (music, cell phone, eating food).