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Old 12-24-02, 12:16 AM   #1
tivoli_mike
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How to prevent dooring through education...

Was chatting with my mother, who grew up in the Netherlands and learned to drive there, about the perils of being doored, and she related something from her driver's ed. In Holland, it was mandatory training for drivers education that drivers would have to open their door with their RIGHT hands. This forces the driver to turn their bodies to the left and hence they look down the road...brutually simple. Is this taught at all in driver's education courses?
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Old 12-24-02, 02:19 AM   #2
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In my view there is absolutely no point trying to educate drivers in this manner. Even forcing them to look doesn't guarantee that they'll be paying attention. And how would such a law be enforced? Especially considering the many laws that are easier to spot in terms of an infringement that are routinely broken.

I think the only way to avoid being doored is simply to ride a sufficient distance from parked cars to make being doored an impossibility.
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Old 12-24-02, 04:37 AM   #3
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Opening the door with the right hand is a clever idea to encourage the driver to look back before opening the door.

Not only does it give at least half-a-chance to bicyclists, it could help prevent the driver from stepping out into an on-coming vehicle.
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Old 12-24-02, 09:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by tivoli_mike
In Holland, it was mandatory training for drivers education that drivers would have to open their door with their RIGHT hands. This forces the driver to turn their bodies to the left and hence they look down the road...brutually simple. Is this taught at all in driver's education courses?
Wow - that is a great idea! It should be taught in driver's ed, but I doubt it ever will in the States. I'm going to try to make this a part of my routine, though.

ThanX for the post!
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Old 12-24-02, 10:00 AM   #5
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Originally posted by tivoli_mike
Was chatting with my mother, who grew up in the Netherlands and learned to drive there, about the perils of being doored, and she related something from her driver's ed. In Holland, it was mandatory training for drivers education that drivers would have to open their door with their RIGHT hands. This forces the driver to turn their bodies to the left and hence they look down the road...brutually simple. Is this taught at all in driver's education courses?
Mike, excellent tid bit... Every-time I've traveled to europe, I've discovered some valuable product or tid bit that makes my life easier in some manner or another.

I do not believe that valuable tid bit you learned will ever be taught in american drivers school. Mostly, because drivers schools are independent companies, teaching the minimum to a diverse customer base.

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Old 12-24-02, 12:01 PM   #6
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If we kill everyone who doors a cyclist the problem will eventually go away :-)
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Old 12-24-02, 07:27 PM   #7
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I was doored once, in Los Angeles, because I used to ride too far to the right.

I must admit I once almost doored an oncoming automobile, because I was a front-seat passenger in a car in the U.K., and the driver had just parked on the RIGHT curb, disorienting my subconscious. I carefully checked the (left side) mirror, just as I would have when driving at home, looked back, and opened the door, as a car approached from the FRONT of our car. Under the circumstances, I could have easily doored a cyclist, although it is probably somewhat better to run into the front/outside of a car door than into the rear/inside.
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Old 12-25-02, 08:19 PM   #8
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Tivoli Mike,

I love it!

Now, I would like to add a twist: "How to prevent dooring through education...for cyclists!"



What in the world is wrong with our society, when we let motorists make their own rules by bullying cyclists as far to the right "as practical," forcing them to ride within "dooring range?" Who has the guts to stand up to passing motorists and ride in the lane at least a few feet from parked cars, instead of slicing by them and gambling that someone won't swing that door open??
Who, I ask?

ME!
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Old 12-25-02, 09:14 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Pete Clark
What in the world is wrong with our society, when we let motorists make their own rules by bullying cyclists as far to the right "as practical," forcing them to ride within "dooring range?"
The "as far to the right (or left, depending on where yuo are) as practical" provides us with our loophole. I, for one, would argue that it is not practical to ride within dooring range. Therefore as far to the right (or left) as practical is outside this range.
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Old 12-25-02, 11:24 PM   #10
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I believe the state should force prime time TV to have saftey comercials in between there most popular shows. You have the audience and some well done safety tips would sink in eventually. Do them over and over so it can't be overlooked. Like dooring bicycles or cars with tips on how not to. It's a priveledge for the networks to be on the air and a responsibility they have not honored so the government should force them to run these.
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Old 12-26-02, 12:59 AM   #11
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I believe the state should force prime time TV to have saftey comercials in between there most popular shows. You have the audience and some well done safety tips would sink in eventually. Do them over and over so it can't be overlooked.
This has been tried in this country (admittedly not with specific reference bo bicycles, but many other things), and basically it doesn't work. Most people tend to take the attitude of "well, if I don't get caught..." Right or wrong, this is simply a situation that we cyclists have to take into our own hands.
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Old 12-29-02, 04:05 PM   #12
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Originally posted by Chris L


This has been tried in this country (admittedly not with specific reference bo bicycles, but many other things), and basically it doesn't work. Most people tend to take the attitude of "well, if I don't get caught..." Right or wrong, this is simply a situation that we cyclists have to take into our own hands.
What would you suggest we do ohter than ride at least 4 ft from parked cars? This is not a large issue in salina ks but i can see where it would be in larger cities.
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Old 12-29-02, 04:09 PM   #13
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What would you suggest we do ohter than ride at least 4 ft from parked cars?
I would suggest we do exactly that! People have this irrational fear that if you do that you'll automatically get run over. Fact is, if you hold a consistent line where you can be seen, it's highly unlikely to happen. Certainly a safer bet than riding within dooring range and being physically knocked into oncoming traffic by an opening door.
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Old 12-30-02, 01:17 PM   #14
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Originally posted by Chris L

I would suggest we do exactly that! People have this irrational fear that if you do that you'll automatically get run over. Fact is, if you hold a consistent line where you can be seen, it's highly unlikely to happen. Certainly a safer bet than riding within dooring range and being physically knocked into oncoming traffic by an opening door.
Spot-on, Chris, and a fundamental part of "Effective Cycling." Folks, riding defensively includes not letting yourselves be squeezed between moving and parked cars or between motor vehicles and guard rails.
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Old 01-06-03, 11:30 PM   #15
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Who has the guts to stand up to passing motorists and ride in the lane at least a few feet from parked cars, instead of slicing by them and gambling that someone won't swing that door open??
Who, I ask?
Me! This morning I was riding on a 3 lane road, that also has a bike lane until 9am, after 9am cars can park in the bike lane so it becomes a 2 1/2 lane road. Normally most drivers will stay in the two clear lanes and avoid the third lane. However there is always one idiot that will swerve between the parked cars to get to the next red light quicker.

I was cruising along at 35kph/22mph holding my line 3 feet from the parked cars. When I heard a loud car exhaust behind me, there was a long line of parked cars, so I held my line and speed and moved over into the bike lane after passing the last parked car. The car accelerated hard after passing me, but I was not going to move over.

If drivers didn't park in the bike lane and parked on side streets instead, this would not be a problem. There are no shops on this stretch of road only corporate type companies. So people could walk from a side street or park in the business's car park.

CHEERS.

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