N_C

During my commute to work this morning I stopped at all intersections controlled by lights & stop signs. At one of the 4-way stop intersections controlled with signs I had a motorist that expected me to just either run the stop sign by using it as a yield sign or running it at the speed I was travelling before I stopped.

I am guessing she has had this happen before so she expects this behavior from all cyclists. She had an ugly look on her face when I was approaching the stop which was jsut a few seconds after her, she had the right of way as she arrived at the stop first. Her look was "oh great another damn cyclist who will just blow through the stop sign & I'll have to go around him when I catch up to him, I wish they were all banned to the sidewalks". She was heading east, I was heading south & was turning east at this intersection after I stopped.

Even though the had the right of way she waited for me to run the stop sign.

Boy did I surprise her. Her looked changed to what she had to "finally a cyclist who knows the freaking rules of the road".

For the record I always stop at red lights & stop signs. Albeit my stop may only last for a few seconds, It depends on the situation & how busy the intersection is with traffic, but my wheels stop moving & my foot comes down to the ground. Of course at a red light I stay stopped until my light turns green.

I hope I did a little to improve this lady's perception of cyclists on the roadways.

CB HI

No big surprise, when approaching a stop sign intersection where I have the right of way, I expect motorist to run (or at least roll through) the stop sign; failing to properly yeild the right of way. My expectations are often correct.

At least many motorist are willing to work with cyclist for the safety of all.

noisebeam

I think you may be reading too much into the motorists mind, are you sure she was thinking "I wish they were all banned from the sidewalks"

Maybe she was just an early morning grouchy persons, but the sight of a healthy cyclist like you brightened her day.
Maybe she didn't know who exactly had ROW as you arrived within seconds of each other.

Why do you put a foot down, is it a legal requirement in Iowa? Or are you just a good communicator?

Al

LilSprocket

I see cyclists blow stops and red lights VERY often, it's disheartening to me, that so many, including people I ride with, chronically do not obey traffic signals. It's made me prefer not to ride in groups...

'nother

Daily occurrence . . . too bad many motorists have come to expect cyclists to run signs, lights, etc.

I also have frequently experienced motorists failing to take the right-of-way/yield to me *without* a stop sign (e.g. I have slowed/stopped/signaled to turn left; oncoming motorist stops and waves me through . . . ?!??! That's weird.

webist

I don't think he's reading too much into the motorist's look. I had a guy to the right of me at a four-way stop yesterday whose look was one of, "I wish the council would vote a bond issue and raise my property taxex so as to make improvements to the roads for both cyclists and drivers." His obvious thoughts were interupted by car horns.

noisebeam

Even us cyclists who don't run stops often ride fast and slow very quick at stops. A reasonable driver should be prepared for the worst, not (only) because of conditioning that cyclists run stops, but of conditioning that drivers who don't appear to be slowing may not stop, just as they would if a motor vehicle was not appearing to gradually stop at intersection.

Al

noisebeam

Kinda like the lustful thoughts about me that the most appealing members of the opposite sex have every time I ride by, right? I can see it in their eyes. In fact just like NC experienced, they look bored/tired/uninspired as I approach from the distance, but as soon as I stop allowing my full me to be seen, its all smiles and that special look.

Al

genec

I had the funniest thing happen yesterday morning.... rolled up to a stopsign and stopped. This was a two way stop, but the motorists on the cross street have to slow way way down for a dip on either side of their road as it crosses the street I was on... it acts very much like a huge speed bump to them.

Motorist rolled up to the dip to my left and waved me through. I stayed stopped. Motorist rolled on, slowly.

Two more motorists approached, each from the other direction. I am still stopped. They both slowed way down for the dips and both waved me on... again I stayed stopped.

The guy on my right had this odd puzzled look on his face... I said loudly: "I have a stop sign... you go on... " "Oh, OK," was the response.

Obviously confused as to why I was stopped. Guess that octagon sign didn't mean much to them.

sauerwald

Most motorists do not expect cyclists to behave as other vehicles. I had an interesting one this morning - I was at a light were I was turning left, I was in the left turn lane, behind a pickup, waiting at the red light. There are two oncoming lanes, a dedicated left turn land and one for straight/right turn. When the light turns green, the pickup zips through and makes his left in front of the cars wanting to come straight - I roll out into the middle of the intersection and stop. Two cars pass going straight through, then a lady who is going straight stops and waves me across to make my left in front of her.

Are the laws for how to drive so complicated that nobody can follow them?
Do people generally think that cyclists have a different set of rules?
Is there any hope?

HereNT

Man, cars being nice and trying to save you time by stopping for you, and you guys are pissed?

Dayum.

msu2001la

Exactly what I was thinking too.

When I'm in my car, I usually expect cyclists to roll through stop signs. Most times, as a motorist I'll stop and wave cyclists through as a courtesy.
Generally, cyclists are happy when motorists wave them through, as I am when the roles are reversed and I get waived on.

If I was in my car and pulled up to a stop sign, and then waved a cyclist on only to have him get pissed at me for doing so, I'd be confused too.

slvoid

I have cops in brooklyn expect me to run red lights, then when I don't, they ease through the light in their patrol cars to lead me through.

N_C

There is no law that says a cyclist has to put their foot down. It is a good communicator to the motorist I am stopping. And you can not do a track stand on a recumbent, tried & fell over.

I did forget to mention I was signalling my intentions to turn left, or east so she knew where I was going to head once I continued through the intersection. The interval between her stopping & me stopping was probably about 15 seconds. She easily could have made it through before I completely stopped, but waited to see what I was going to do.

noisebeam

I am all for communication, hence the reason I put foot town and keep track standing for the track or parking lot. Too funny that your tried trackstanding on your bent.
You did mention the signal. Also good communication, but maybe these was unfortunately misinterpreted as asking for ROW? (even if it rarely is, this is not a reason to not signal of course)
I did not get the 15s part, I was thinking 1-2s arrival time difference.

Al

genec

Well secretly the cyclist is really thinking... "man... I wish they would wave me through before I slowed down and unclipped."

Then the next thought is: "dammit, I already got my foot down, now YOU go and quit buggin' me."

noisebeam

If you are in a car and want to give ROW to a cyclist to let them roll thru, ideally if you can see them coming, slow down well before the stop sign to change up the timing so they will get there well before you. Maybe come to a near stop well before stop line. That way you give them ROW by legal definition by having them get there first. Not always possible, but can be done with the right sightlines and lower traffic conditions.

Al

'nother

It is not a matter of "being nice" or not; it's a matter of expectations. I can't quite say I'm "pissed" that someone would wave me along when I am required by law to stop but they aren't; mainly just puzzled. It doesn't really help me; actually slows things down even more than if he'd have just continued on as he was supposed to. By stopping when he is not supposed to stop I have to evaluate, "is he stopping for me? Does he see me? What's going on?" whereas when things go the way they're supposed to it is more automatic. genec has it right.

donnamb 

I also wish they wouldn't stop to wave me through. What inevitably happens is that other traffic on the road doesn't also stop, the nice driver can't see it, doesn't understand why I'm not going, and then drives off in a huff thinking ill of me in particular and cyclists in general. Portland has a tradition of courteous driver behavior that is gradually eroding, but still there enough that this happens far too often.

LilSprocket

+1

Lucky07

A few weeks ago, as I'm riding home from work, I came up to an intersection. The light was red and traffic had already stopped on my side of the street. I rode up to a few feet before the crosswalk and stopped.

An older woman who had been crossing the street, stopped right in front of me, turned and shouted "A$$H@L3!"

I was shocked and surprised and sort of chuckled. I had probably stopped a good 8 feet away from her & had no plans to ride through the intersection. The only thing I could think to say was "Excuse me?"

She stopped, turned to look at me and spat out "YOU'RE - A - F%^KING - A$$H@L3!!!!"

I try not to harass the elderly, but I couldn't help myself at that point. I just laughed out loud and said "Hey! Try to enjoy what's left of your life!" and rode on...

N_C

eubi

Hmm. Good point. I typically trackstand at stop signs, and the motorists typically wave me though. I nod and smile at them.

I never meant to convey that I wasn't going to stop. I always stop at stop signs.

Maybe I will reconsider my trackstand policy.

cooker

I'd prefer cars use the stop sign properly and not assume bikes are going straight through. They should stop, then cautiously nose out into the intersection, and once they see the bikes are stopping, they should proceed through. And if the cyclists persist in running the stop signs and cutting in front of the cars, the drivers should blast them with the horn. That's exactly what they should also do if the cross-traffic is motorized. Letting cyclists or any other traffic get away with flouting traffic laws is dangerous.

"Waving someone through" when it's not their turn (or waving pedestrians across in front of you) is very questionable generosity. You're teaching them bad habits, and you're putting them at risk from other drivers right at that moment who may be overtaking you or coming from another direction, or other drivers in the future who may be less generous.

JohnBrooking

I think motorists must be conditioned to expect cyclists to not stop. This would be a good argument for better cyclist behavior of the sort being proposed by that guy promoting the Stop on Red campaign in the UK which has been debated in another thread. (So don't start it here, please!)

The problem, I agree, is that it slows down and confuses the situation more than if everyone just followed the right-of-way guidelines. And maybe I'm easily insulted, but I find it annoying when I'm trying to ride right and yet motorists still assume I won't.