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Old 07-31-06, 08:56 AM   #1
genec
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Here's a location where a bike lane makes a lot of sense...



This is supposed to be a 45MPH road... but every afternoon it backs up just like the picture shows. Look close enough and you will see the cyclist climbing the hill in the BL. That cyclist will beat the motor traffic every time. (I take a particular joy in doing that BTW)

The delay on this road at "rush hour" can be upwards of 45 minutes... (for a motorist to move from where this picture was taken to the top of the hill) while motorists use this "shortcut" to gain access to a freeway on ramp another mile down the road.

There is only one intersection on this particular stretch of road.

This is all from a story about adding a bridge to relieve this traffic situation... Some of the locals do not want to add a bridge... as where they now live is quite traffic free and quiet... even though the bridge has always been planned.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:20 AM   #2
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This reminds me of Bear Valley Road at the onramps to the I-15 in Victorville between 5AM and 11PM.
Traffic just crawls along, while I bust right through it.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:30 AM   #3
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Yep perfect road for a BL. Few intersections heavy traffic Cant realy tell if theres a sidewalk or not. Sidewalk next to a bike lane = raised curb so - a few points if theres a side walk/curb. Bls with soft shoulders off to the side mean no trash gets piled up.
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Old 07-31-06, 11:16 AM   #4
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Just looks like a nice shoulder to me. Or am I missing something.

-D
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Old 07-31-06, 11:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derath
Just looks like a nice shoulder to me. Or am I missing something.

-D
Na is bike lane note the dashed line down the middle.
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Old 07-31-06, 11:43 AM   #6
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Look at the photo closely. In particular, focus on the section where the cyclist can be seen climbing the hill. Now, imagine that the bike lane stripe is not there. Consider how wide that WOL would be compared to the width of the cars around the cyclist. No matter where the cars were, there would be plenty of room for cyclists to get around them. And, during most of the day when there is no congestion, the traffic would be sweeping clean that section which now accumulates rubble and debris because the bike lane stripe keeps motor traffic out of if round-the-clock whether or not cyclists are present.

What makes sense here is not a bike lane, but width, which we would have with or with the bike lane stripe.

derath - it's not a shoulder. Shoulders are on roads without curbs. This road has a curb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova
Na is bike lane note the dashed line down the middle.
Nova - what does "Na is bike lane" mean? As others have suggested, please proofread your posts before posting. Also, what "dashed line down the middle" are you referring to? Down the middle of what? The only dashed line I see is the one separating the two lanes of motor traffic.
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Old 07-31-06, 12:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Look at the photo closely. In particular, focus on the section where the cyclist can be seen climbing the hill. Now, imagine that the bike lane stripe is not there. Consider how wide that WOL would be compared to the width of the cars around the cyclist. No matter where the cars were, there would be plenty of room for cyclists to get around them. And, during most of the day when there is no congestion, the traffic would be sweeping clean that section which now accumulates rubble and debris because the bike lane stripe keeps motor traffic out of if round-the-clock whether or not cyclists are present.

What makes sense here is not a bike lane, but width, which we would have with or with the bike lane stripe.

derath - it's not a shoulder. Shoulders are on roads without curbs. This road has a curb.



Nova - what does "Na is bike lane" mean? As others have suggested, please proofread your posts before posting. Also, what "dashed line down the middle" are you referring to? Down the middle of what? The only dashed line I see is the one separating the two lanes of motor traffic.

Hmm lets see down the supposed shoulder
NA is no just like many people say a for is bike lane i simply missed the a.

On that road above if not for the striping cars would be staggered all over it making it impossible and down right dangerous to travel it. Also many states do not allow passing of vehicals on the right.

Like OP said this is a perfect or near perfect location for a bike lane. Notice how not a single car is over in the BL and notice how staggered their path is and where they stay. They are staying between the lane to the left and the bike lane.

Its very obvious that the bike lane is a huge help to cyclists on this road.

As for your picking apart my post i really don't see how you could not understand what i was talking about. Seems more a way to divert attention from my posts content more than any thing else.
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Old 07-31-06, 12:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
As for your picking apart my post i really don't see how you could not understand what i was talking about. Seems more a way to divert attention from my posts content more than any thing else.
Nova, I honestly had no idea what you meant by these words:


Quote:
Na is bike lane note the dashed line down the middle.
Did you mean to write, "No, it is a bike lane. Note the dashed line down the middle of the road."?
Even if that's what you meant, I still don't know what dashed line you're talking about, and what it has to do with the question of whether the solid line designates a shoulder or a bike lane.
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Old 07-31-06, 01:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
There is only one intersection on this particular stretch of road.
And the bike lane coupled with that "only one intersection" is responsible for putting the chairman of our coalition into the hospital for the better part of a week a few years ago when he was northbound and was right hooked by someone turning into the high school (across the street from the cyclist in the OP photo).

He's lucky to be alive. "Only one" is all it takes. And "only one" ignores the intersection with the driveway into the condos on the southbound side half-way up the hill.
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Old 07-31-06, 01:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Nova, I honestly had no idea what you meant by these words:



Did you mean to write, "No, it is a bike lane. Note the dashed line down the middle of the road."?
Even if that's what you meant, I still don't know what dashed line you're talking about, and what it has to do with the question of whether the solid line designates a shoulder or a bike lane.
Ahead of the cyclist, if the photo is looked at very closely, one can make out an arrow indicating it's a bike lane. There is a similar indicator on the opposite side of the road pointing in the correction direction of traffic.
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Old 07-31-06, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
And the bike lane coupled with that "only one intersection" is responsible for putting the chairman of our coalition into the hospital for the better part of a week a few years ago when he was northbound and was right hooked by someone turning into the high school (across the street from the cyclist in the OP photo).

He's lucky to be alive. "Only one" is all it takes. And "only one" ignores the intersection with the driveway into the condos on the southbound side half-way up the hill.
My god you must really live in your own little world.

I did not mean no i meant exactly what i typed na which means no same as no means no

Ive talked to people all over the us and canada both on line and on the phone and one thing in common is the use of na as a informal no.


I have a hard time believing that you have not at the very least heard it used.

NA (see also nic spoken to day as nix) goes back to old english meaning no and is the origin of the word no. Both na and nic pronounced nix in todays slang are both used for the word no.

I know of no one else on line who has not heard na or who do not use it them self.
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Old 07-31-06, 02:37 PM   #12
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It's usually a good idea to write more formally than you speak. For what it's worth, "Nah" followed by a comma seperating it from the rest of your sentence probably would have been understood (I've never seen that particular word spelled "na").

We shouldn't have to read the internet aloud, trying different pronounciations for everything, until we figure out what sounds someone was trying to spell.
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Old 07-31-06, 02:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by withak
It's usually a good idea to write more formally than you speak. For what it's worth, "Nah" (followed by a comma seperating it from the rest of your sentence) probably would have been understood. We shouldn't have to read the internet aloud, trying different pronounciations for everything, until we figure out what sounds someone was trying to spell.

What ever

Funny how no one ive ever met other than zealots and grammar nazis have any trouble at all understanding na to mean no. Just those who want to hijack or divert a thread from the real issue at hand have this singular trouble.

Sense some seem to be trying to say its not common and ever so hard to understand
do a google search for this single little phrase
"na not really"
Results 1 - 10 of about 870 for "na not really". (0.23 seconds)


And oh yeh (oh wait bet you don't know what yeh yah or any of the other common internet slang means or how about brb afk lmao lol rofl dotn know them then look them up) i wont reply to any more of this nonsense so don't bother posting how didn't know or its not common or any of the other attempts to changes the subject. All because you can not come up with a good argument against it
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Old 07-31-06, 03:08 PM   #14
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To get back to the point, I think I would agree with the OP on this one, due to the possibility of cars being staggered anywhere in the width of the road if there were no line of any kind. As to the turn, I can't tell what kind of signage there is, but something like "Right turn yield to bike" or "Watch for bikes" might help.

I'm sorry to hear about your aquaintence, HH, but following advice you have pointed out elsewhere on these boards (and with which I agree), I wonder if he could have avoided the accident by checking what was going on behind him, and if clear, moving out into the travel lane to go continue straight through the intersection. And as you also point out, and with which I also agree, I'm not saying he deserved to be hit or that he was legally at fault, but could he have avoided the "accident" had he done these things?

But I'm obviously glad he's okay, which I am assuming since he was released from the hospital after a week. I hope he's back in the saddle, or will be soon.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:11 PM   #15
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Looks like a good bike lane to me.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
And the bike lane coupled with that "only one intersection" is responsible for putting the chairman of our coalition into the hospital for the better part of a week a few years ago when he was northbound and was right hooked by someone turning into the high school (across the street from the cyclist in the OP photo).

He's lucky to be alive. "Only one" is all it takes. And "only one" ignores the intersection with the driveway into the condos on the southbound side half-way up the hill.
That only is is the "only one." There are no other intersections on that road going south. Otherwise it is unbroken curb the entire way.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
To get back to the point, I think I would agree with the OP on this one, due to the possibility of cars being staggered anywhere in the width of the road if there were no line of any kind. As to the turn, I can't tell what kind of signage there is, but something like "Right turn yield to bike" or "Watch for bikes" might help.

I'm sorry to hear about your aquaintence, HH, but following advice you have pointed out elsewhere on these boards (and with which I agree), I wonder if he could have avoided the accident by checking what was going on behind him, and if clear, moving out into the travel lane to go continue straight through the intersection. And as you also point out, and with which I also agree, I'm not saying he deserved to be hit or that he was legally at fault, but could he have avoided the "accident" had he done these things?

But I'm obviously glad he's okay, which I am assuming since he was released from the hospital after a week. I hope he's back in the saddle, or will be soon.
He's an LCI now, though I don't know if he was one back when this happened. As he describes it, it was a dicey situation, and he made the wrong call. As I recall, he was passed while in the bike lane, the driver slowed, but did not merge into the bike lane, the cyclist started catching up with the car, and was reluctant to slow down (because it would mean losing his momentum from the hill he just came down, and needed for the climb in front of him). The driver seemed to be waiting to be passed by the cyclist, as the cyclist started to pass (still in the bike lane, on the right), the driver suddenly turned right and hit him.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
That only is is the "only one." There are no other intersections on that road going south. Otherwise it is unbroken curb the entire way.
The curb if thats what it is hard to tell from the pic is the only thing that takes away from it being a perfect bike lane imo. It almost looks like a cement gutter in the pic. If thats the case thats even better than soft shoulder they make great waste collectors.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:24 PM   #19
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Looks like plenty of room to split lanes even if there wasn't the extra 10 feet of blacktop. [edit] My eyes really aren't that bad. It looks more like 5 feet now that I actually used the cyclist for reference instead of just guessing. [edit]
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Old 07-31-06, 03:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
I did not mean no i meant exactly what i typed na which means no same as no means no
...
Funny how no one ive ever met other than zealots and grammar nazis have any trouble at all understanding na to mean no. Just those who want to hijack or divert a thread from the real issue at hand have this singular trouble.
This is unbelievable. That you meant "no", or, rather, "nah", by "na" is one of the few things I did understand about your original statement. Here it is again:


Quote:
Na is bike lane note the dashed line down the middle.
Again, is the following what you meant?
Nah, it is a bike lane. Note the dashed line down the middle.
If it is what you mean, what dashed line are you talking about, and, if it's the one between the two vehicular traffic lanes, what does that have to do with the question of whether the solid edge stripe designates a bike lane or shoulder? I'm not trying to highjack this thread. I'm truly trying to figure out what the heck you meant when you wrote these words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
That only is is the "only one." There are no other intersections on that road going south. Otherwise it is unbroken curb the entire way.
Everything I said is consistent with this. Why are you pointing this out and ignoring the points I did make?
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Old 07-31-06, 03:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
He's an LCI now, though I don't know if he was one back when this happened. As he describes it, it was a dicey situation, and he made the wrong call. As I recall, he was passed while in the bike lane, the driver slowed, but did not merge into the bike lane, the cyclist started catching up with the car, and was reluctant to slow down (because it would mean losing his momentum from the hill he just came down, and needed for the climb in front of him). The driver seemed to be waiting to be passed by the cyclist, as the cyclist started to pass (still in the bike lane, on the right), the driver suddenly turned right and hit him.

Its quite possible the driver planned to hit the cyclist in question or at least to scare him. These types of morons do exist. Ive met 2 out on the road in the last 2 years one guy who cut me off trying to make me crash 3 times in 3 days another who pulled past the stop blocking most of both lanes (rural road 2 lanes 1 each way).
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Old 07-31-06, 03:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
Its quite possible the driver planned to hit the cyclist in question or at least to scare him.
Yeah, that's what happened.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Everything I said is consistent with this. Why are you pointing this out and ignoring the points I did make?
I have not found the limited access requirements to this one housing block to be an issue... the few motorists that need access to this apartment complex are so infrequent as to be almost dismissable on an daily ride of this street as to be nearly ignorable (to HH standards of motorists that must be responded to). I can only suspect that your friend hit this intersection at a period quite unsimilar to the picture I posted... or really had a difficult time figuring out the motorist themselves... which is quite consistant with my saying of: "traffic is predictable, but individual motorists are not."
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Old 07-31-06, 03:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
This is unbelievable. That you meant "no", or, rather, "nah", by "na" is one of the few things I did understand about your original statement. Here it is again:



Again, is the following what you meant?
Nah, it is a bike lane. Note the dashed line down the middle.
If it is what you mean, what dashed line are you talking about, and, if it's the one between the two vehicular traffic lanes, what does that have to do with the question of whether the solid edge stripe designates a bike lane or shoulder? I'm not trying to highjack this thread. I'm truly trying to figure out what the heck you meant when you wrote these words.



Everything I said is consistent with this. Why are you pointing this out and ignoring the points I did make?
Ack look very carefully the bike lane in the pic. I have better than 20 20 vision (also a higher than normal quality monitor) so some may not see it. But in the pic is a hint of a dashed or solid line down the middle of the bike lane.

As for the spelling of Na both forms are correct nah is a bit older than na as it was in use during the transition from old enlgish to what is now called middle english. Nah if i recall is still used in some germanic languages.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
Looks like a good bike lane to me.
All bike lanes look good to you.
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