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Old 08-02-06, 08:30 AM   #1
Mayonnaise
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Twilight Of The Oil Age

The Chicago Tribune has recently published a very good article on the end of the oil age. It's sobering and informative.

It's also long.

Here's the link
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/...8/24312763.pdf
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Old 08-02-06, 09:35 AM   #2
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Ah, Mayonnaise! Good to see ya.

When will you write a lil' somethin' of yours?

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Old 08-02-06, 10:36 AM   #3
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Great article this month in Harpers too, though no online version.

Imagine There's No Oil
Scenes from a liberal apocalypse
Bryant Urstadt

It's as if all the liberal prof.s became survivalist nutjobs.
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Old 08-02-06, 10:46 AM   #4
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the Mayonnaise?
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Old 08-02-06, 11:05 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
Ah, Mayonnaise! Good to see ya.

When will you write a lil' somethin' of yours?


kinda stopped with all that fixed gear surly swagger. painted myself into a corner if you know what I mean.

i've been racing a lot, maybe some writing will come out of that.
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Old 08-02-06, 11:22 AM   #6
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God i hate reading pdfs so i likely missed something. He says he tracked the gas back to its source (non us non ca). My question is what source of information did he use to track it back to its "source"?

The big oil companies really can not be trusted. See the further away they claim the oil comes from the more they can charge for it. If a company pump oil down from ca but tells the public that its coming from (just a example dont kill me heh) china they can charge more and people wont question them or dig for the truth.

Now with that said you can find out where a given company gets their oil from just not very easy to do. Its pretty well buried as deep as the law allows for.

Auto manufactures are quickly moving towards the so called green tech using renewable sources like that e85 (i think is the name). Then of corse they all for the most part have hybrids. Also have bio disel etc. From what i understand to use bio disel requires a very small change to the engine to be used (quite cheap).

In the end big oil will be screwed likely long before the reserves are all dried up and no new oil is being drawn. I have no pity for the price gouging sobs and they will get whats coming to them soon enough i think.
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Old 08-02-06, 12:06 PM   #7
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The writer of the article has done extensive research on finding the source of much of the oil that comes to this country.

He clearly shows his sources. He's clearly done his homework.

I haven't yet finished the article, but was amazed to discover America imports more oil from Africa than Saudi Arabia.
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Old 08-02-06, 12:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
God i hate reading pdfs so i likely missed something. He says he tracked the gas back to its source (non us non ca). My question is what source of information did he use to track it back to its "source"?

The big oil companies really can not be trusted. See the further away they claim the oil comes from the more they can charge for it. If a company pump oil down from ca but tells the public that its coming from (just a example dont kill me heh) china they can charge more and people wont question them or dig for the truth.

Now with that said you can find out where a given company gets their oil from just not very easy to do. Its pretty well buried as deep as the law allows for.

Auto manufactures are quickly moving towards the so called green tech using renewable sources like that e85 (i think is the name). Then of corse they all for the most part have hybrids. Also have bio disel etc. From what i understand to use bio disel requires a very small change to the engine to be used (quite cheap).

In the end big oil will be screwed likely long before the reserves are all dried up and no new oil is being drawn. I have no pity for the price gouging sobs and they will get whats coming to them soon enough i think.
Nova,

I don't mean to be condescending, but it might help you to better understand the economics of the issue if you were to print up the article and read it. It's really well researched and written. There is a lot of information on oil production that doesn't come from oil companies and I'm sure this journalist used a variety of sources.

I don't know where you are doing your research, but any look at Car and Driver will show you that auto manufacturers are not at all moving away from petro powered cars. The 2007 model lineups are filled with heavier and higher powered cars. This is no condemnation of the car companies that's just what people buy.

Also, I think where oil is transported from has very little to do with the current pricing. It may be a small factor, but the bigger issue is that you have high demand for a limited resource and the companies will charge whatever the market will bear. So it is hard to see how, "...big oil will be screwed likely long before the reserves are all dried up..." companies usually don't have problems when there is an unquenchable demand for their product. Peak oil doesn't predict that oil is drying up, just that the production will taper off and the remaining reserves will become more expensive to retrieve. But don't kid yourself that there won't be buyers for $10/gallon gasoline or that you'll be able to buy a GM electric car anytime soon.
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Old 08-02-06, 12:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Treespeed
Nova,

The 2007 model lineups are filled with heavier and higher powered cars. This is no condemnation of the car companies that's just what people buy.
It looks as if those heavier higher powered cars will be left on the lot. The latest figures released yesterday by the auto makers show Toyota with double digit increases in sales and Ford, Damler, and GM with sales slumps ranging from 20 to 35 percent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treespeed
Also, I think where oil is transported from has very little to do with the current pricing. It may be a small factor, but the bigger issue is that you have high demand for a limited resource and the companies will charge whatever the market will bear. So it is hard to see how, "...big oil will be screwed likely long before the reserves are all dried up..." companies usually don't have problems when there is an unquenchable demand for their product. Peak oil doesn't predict that oil is drying up, just that the production will taper off and the remaining reserves will become more expensive to retrieve. But don't kid yourself that there won't be buyers for $10/gallon gasoline or that you'll be able to buy a GM electric car anytime soon
When the major oil companies show profits in the tens of billions, I suspect graft and payoffs. If some local gas station anywhere in the country tries to "scalp" customers, regardless of the demand, by increasing prices like the big wigs do, he would be in court in a heartbeat.

The oil companies will enjoy carte blanche as long as oil men run the country. It is very much past the time to make wholesale changes in our federal government. In all three branches.
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Old 08-02-06, 02:24 PM   #10
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I'm sorry Capejohn, but I think your synopsis is very naive. How were oil companies profits limited under any other previous administration? And further how are the billions in profits raked in by the oil companies any different from the profits raked in by other corporations such as defense and drug companies?

GM's slipping sales has little to do with oil prices and more to do with the fact that they charge too much for cruddy cars. Hummer sales are actually up this year compared to last. Regardless, that car sales are down has no bearing on my point that none of the current auto companies are marketing any serious alternative fuel cars. In fact the rumour is that Euro diesels will no longer be able to meet emission standards with the dirty U.S. diesel and that VW voids their warranty with the use of biodiesel. And finally, the last time I checked Toyota still powered all of their cars with petroleum despite their feel good hybrids.

Everyone wants to take the Oil companies to task over gas prices and they forget that our whole economy is based on petroleum, from agriculture, to construction, to medicine and even clothing. We've only known that oil was going to run out for a few decades and now we want to blame someone else for not making changes like we should have thirty years ago during the OPEC crisis. So go ahead throw the book at all of the CEO's for price gouging. Even with all of them rotting in prison it does not change the amount of oil in the ground or the rate at which the world consumes it. The fact is we are a country that always wants to have someone to blame, but never wants to make the changes ahead of time to ward off the well publicized disaster. Some examples that come to mind are Katrina, border and port security, Iraqi insurgency, etc. We'd rather hold trials and inquests, and witch hunts.

But hey nobody is stopping you from buying an electric car, moving to a farm, growing your own biodiesel and food, putting up a windmill and some solar panels and riding your bike to work. It's just easier for everyone to blame those Oil companies as they drive to work.
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Old 08-02-06, 02:59 PM   #11
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My wife asked if we can spare 80 grand for this electric car. Its very quick, and well Ahhhnold says to buy it. While electric would not save the world from pollution, since some plants burn coal, etc. In our case, this car would be a beneift. We do short trips around our neighborhood, we work by where we live. I'd like to see a solar roof to charge while it sits. I keep our car batteries topped off via a VW solar panel. I don't drive far enough to keep the battery charged with euro lighting (gotta be able to see) and the radio up (gotta have tunes in a car). It could be a free powered car for us. Now I just need 80 grand.



http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/07...-santa-monica/
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
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Old 08-02-06, 05:10 PM   #12
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I encourage everybody to read that article. It's extremely well-written. His writing is excellent. The imagery is beautiful. It's almost like a movie the way he writes, the way one scene fades into the next with a graphic match. Wonderful read.

The appendix shows how he got the information on the percentages of oil coming from which region. It's very interesting. The way they push the oil through the pipes means you can actually determine where it comes from if you have enough information, which he was able to get.
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Old 08-02-06, 05:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricDJ
My wife asked if we can spare 80 grand for this electric car. Its very quick, and well Ahhhnold says to buy it. ...
Arnold could buy one for all of us. (cynical comment)

I like that they chose to honor one of the greatest electrical engineers of all time by naming the car after him. (that is what they did, isn't it?)

Battery technology continues to improve, so who knows? If this proves to be a success, maybe they'll use the techology to produce a lower-priced car for consumers. Then again, maybe not.
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Old 08-02-06, 05:40 PM   #14
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Arnold could buy one for all of us. (cynical comment)

I like that they chose to honor one of the greatest electrical engineers of all time by naming the car after him. (that is what they did, isn't it?)

Battery technology continues to improve, so who knows? If this proves to be a success, maybe they'll use the techology to produce a lower-priced car for consumers. Then again, maybe not.
If only folks got hot for this technology like they do for carbon fiber in the road forums then eventually this technology would trickle down to the rest of us for a reasonable price. It's my understanding that you can still buy a decent electric car for a lot less than $80k. I'll have to do some googling. It's all about choices. No one is forcing anyone to buy an Escalade.
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Old 08-02-06, 05:56 PM   #15
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You can build an electric car for less, but the 0-60 times on this show people that an electric car doesn't have to be slow. This is good to get attention of the lead foots that there is an alternative.
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Old 08-02-06, 05:57 PM   #16
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If you can, go see the movie Who killed the electric car. It's really good.
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Old 08-02-06, 07:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricDJ
My wife asked if we can spare 80 grand for this electric car. Its very quick, and well Ahhhnold says to buy it. While electric would not save the world from pollution, since some plants burn coal, etc. In our case, this car would be a beneift. We do short trips around our neighborhood, we work by where we live. I'd like to see a solar roof to charge while it sits. I keep our car batteries topped off via a VW solar panel. I don't drive far enough to keep the battery charged with euro lighting (gotta be able to see) and the radio up (gotta have tunes in a car). It could be a free powered car for us. Now I just need 80 grand.
Please don't hang me for asking this simple question, but if all of your trips are so short, why not use a bike and save the $80k?
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Old 08-02-06, 07:43 PM   #18
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To foo with you!
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Old 08-02-06, 07:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Please don't hang me for asking this simple question, but if all of your trips are so short, why not use a bike and save the $80k?
I could have just died right there. Hang on while I go get a rag to clean up all the juice I just spit all over the monitor.
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Old 08-02-06, 09:00 PM   #20
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I use the bike for most trips, food, Blockbuster, etc. But most trips involve more than one of us, and packages involved.
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Old 08-02-06, 09:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treespeed
It's as if all the liberal prof.s became survivalist nutjobs.
Hey, it's not just for liberals anymore!
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Old 08-02-06, 09:29 PM   #22
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I use the bike for most trips, food, Blockbuster, etc. But most trips involve more than one of us, and packages involved.
If most of this is short range city driving, then your best bet would be to pick up an older 240sx to convert to a direct drive EV. I'm thinking you could do the conversion for under ~$8k, and have something with a ~100mile@45mph range. EVs are more efficient as you slow down, so if you can keep your foot out of it, you'll be fine. If you're one of those "I have to go 75mph on the freeway" types, instead of cruising at 50-55mph, you'll probably get stranded in an EV and hate 'em. You'll also pay ~1/10th of what you would if the 240sx were still gas. PM me if you want more info.

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Old 08-03-06, 03:59 AM   #23
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These high fuel prices gave me a funny and evil idea.
Ride my bike up to a hill/knoll that overlooks a good length of a lonely road and spy it with binoculars.
Scope out any vehicles that break down and/or just stop, then ride over to them.
Along with the bike is a B.O.B. trailer that has a ten gallon fuel tank attached.
Go up to these people and ask if they ran out of fuel and need a little more to get them to the next filling station. If they need a little booster fuel, tell them to give me the money for the fuel they need, plus $10 or $20 for bike wear'n'tear(yeah, right ).
If they begin to object, I'll just start taunting them about waiting in the heat or cold for the next five hours. Essentially, they'll cave and give in to their insatiable thirst.
But, anywho, if I do this five or six times a day, it would be perfect side income for non-work days.
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Old 08-03-06, 04:34 AM   #24
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If you taunt them they may just shoot you and take the gas...
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Old 08-03-06, 07:29 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treespeed
It's just easier for everyone to blame those Oil companies as they drive to work.
On one of the main roads that motorists use to commute into our downtown business district from the southern suburbs, there's building with a yellow ribbon painted around it and the words "There is no freedom without responsibility."

I don't use this street as it's a hostile environment for bicyclists. Still, I think about that phrase often when I hear proposals that promise to win our freedom from dependence on foreign oil. Letters to the editor of my local paper are full of ideas: Building nuclear plants. Allowing more domestic drilling. Initiating new military adventures. Punishing the evil oil companies. Even building more roads. What these "solutions" all have in common is that they require us to take absolutely no responsibility for our own petroleum use.
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