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  1. #1
    N_C
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    This is why I have absolute zero tolerance toward drunk drivers.

    http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/...sp?NewsID=1680

    This guy should never be allowed to drive or own a motor vehicle legally ever again! This guy is a drunk cager, IMO! He's lucky it wasn't me he hit. Had it been after I recovered I'd administer my own personal justice on the sob! GOD I HATE DRUNK DRIVERS!!! THEY ARE ONE OF THE LOWEST FORMS OF LIFE ON THIS PLANET!!! It angers me to no end that this **** happens.

  2. #2
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    That is quite unfortunate. It is amazing how often people drive drunk. And I don't mean tipsy, I mean barely able to speak and stand drunk. Unless this was his third offense or so, it is unlikely they will permanently revoke his license. He MAY do time, but it isn't a guarantee. Sad. Because there are so many drunk drivers, they simply can't incarcerate all of them.
    He's lucky it wasn't me he hit. Had it been after I recovered I'd administer my own personal justice on the sob!
    There is the justice system for a reason. It may let us down sometimes. I may seem unfair or not harsh enough. But your actions of retribution are just as illegal as being a drunk driver. In fact, they are more serious since they would be pre-meditated. Violence should not be tolerated. Period.

  3. #3
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady
    There is the justice system for a reason. It may let us down sometimes. I may seem unfair or not harsh enough. But your actions of retribution are just as illegal as being a drunk driver. In fact, they are more serious since they would be pre-meditated. Violence should not be tolerated. Period.
    Tell me this after you have been in an accident with a drunk driver & were injured as a result. It happened to me. The s.o.b. pretty much got away with it. He spent a month in jail at the most. Thankfully for other people it was a single vehicle accident, I was the passenger, had no idea he was drunk. I had a concussion as a result.

  4. #4
    05 Roubaix Comp Double
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    Hows this for being tolerated. Drive drunk, get caught,go to jail for 6 months and city gets your car to sell and you cant drive for one year. Do it again,5 years in jail.
    Touch every 3rd person and you'll find an idiot.

  5. #5
    Senior Member rule's Avatar
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    Make a donation to MADD in your area. They will spend it asking these same questions directly to judges and folks who seem to forget that they will be called upon to answer for such decisions.

  6. #6
    Speed Demon *roll eyes*
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    Tell me this after you have been in an accident with a drunk driver & were injured as a result. It happened to me. The s.o.b. pretty much got away with it. He spent a month in jail at the most. Thankfully for other people it was a single vehicle accident, I was the passenger, had no idea he was drunk. I had a concussion as a result.
    Unless you live in some part of the world without law, which you dont, the justice system is what will take care of the problem, not you. If you take the law into your own hands, you are the problem, and the justice system will take care of you. I could not give a rat's ass about how you might feel let down by not personally being able to hurt the person, you may not do it. I do understand why you would want to hurt the person, but you still may not do it. You can do it, but you are participating in a premeditated assault or worse.

    I watched someone yesterday on a motorbike get clipped by a minivan. No one fell, no one got hurt. Both drivers stopped. Understandably, the motorcycle driver was angry, but he did not have the right to pound in the side of the van, and then attack the driver and beat him up (which is what he did). Odds are, the score card after that would read: van driver = charged with making an unsafe lane change or careless driving, and the motorcyclist = charged with uttering threats, assault, and several other things netting him, if convicted, 2 years in jail while the van driver gets a small fine and some demerit points. The point is, even though the motorcyclist may have felt justified in doing what he did, he may not do it. It is assault.

    This is not a hard concept.
    1998 Specialized S-works Hardtail - hotrodded
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  7. #7
    Speed Demon *roll eyes*
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    Quote Originally Posted by rule
    Make a donation to MADD in your area. They will spend it asking these same questions directly to judges and folks who seem to forget that they will be called upon to answer for such decisions.
    A far better idea. Advocacy is much smarter than taking the law into your own hands.
    1998 Specialized S-works Hardtail - hotrodded
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  8. #8
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Tell me this after you have been in an accident with a drunk driver & were injured as a result. It happened to me. The s.o.b. pretty much got away with it. He spent a month in jail at the most. Thankfully for other people it was a single vehicle accident, I was the passenger, had no idea he was drunk. I had a concussion as a result.
    So tell me what would be sufficient retribution for this? What if you didn't have your facts straight and you hurt the wrong person? What if in the middle of your tirade, you accidentally hurt or killed someone else?

    By the way, you are not the only person to be a victim of a crime or carelessness. It happens everyday. We can't just start beating people at will. It would be total anarchy.

  9. #9
    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady
    So tell me what would be sufficient retribution for this? What if you didn't have your facts straight and you hurt the wrong person? What if in the middle of your tirade, you accidentally hurt or killed someone else?

    By the way, you are not the only person to be a victim of a crime or carelessness. It happens everyday. We can't just start beating people at will. It would be total anarchy.
    It's also entirely possible that the drunk is a better fighter and will present a formidable defense.

  10. #10
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    My position:
    1) I have contributed annually to MADD for over 20 years.
    2) I favor stricter penalties for drunk drivers who injure, kill, or maim. Lifelong restitution payments, jail time, public service time, and loss of driving PRIVILEGE are all on my list of appropriate punishments.
    3) The situation has improved somewhat over the years, mainly because enough people got "MADD" enough to do something about the problem.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  11. #11
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E
    My position:
    1) I have contributed annually to MADD for over 20 years.
    2) I favor stricter penalties for drunk drivers who injure, kill, or maim. Lifelong restitution payments, jail time, public service time, and loss of driving PRIVILEGE are all on my list of appropriate punishments.
    3) The situation has improved somewhat over the years, mainly because enough people got "MADD" enough to do something about the problem.
    But it is still not enough. Granted the justice I would like to administer probably makes me no better then the drunk driver who injured or killed someone. I would still like to see the drunk drivers life ruined for what they do to people. The kind of punishment I am talking about is life long retribution, whether financial or otherwise. Mark them somehow so everyone will know what they did. They should be made to make retribution to the victim or the families of those who lives they ruin for the rest of their lives. The court system can make this happen but there are those that seem to think people who break the law like this have rights. As far as I'm concerned if you do this you lose all your rights.

  12. #12
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Instead of just going after the drunks, enforcement should be tough on all incapacitated drivers.
    People who choose to drive when they can't stay awake, simply don't pay attention, or drive under the influence of certain medications are as dangerous as drunks, but the behavior doesn't carry the social taboo that drinking and driving does.

  13. #13
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned if you do this you lose all your rights.
    Well, I for one am glad you were not one of our founding fathers...

  14. #14
    Skin-Pounder Bikes-N-Drums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    The kind of punishment I am talking about is life long retribution, whether financial or otherwise. Mark them somehow so everyone will know what they did.
    Well, Heil Hitler!
    We are the musicmakers and we are the dreamers of dreams...

  15. #15
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    The kind of punishment I am talking about is life long retribution, whether financial or otherwise. Mark them somehow so everyone will know what they did. They should be made to make retribution to the victim or the families of those who lives they ruin for the rest of their lives. The court system can make this happen but there are those that seem to think people who break the law like this have rights. As far as I'm concerned if you do this you lose all your rights.
    Make them wear a Scarlet Letter or something? Publicly shame them until they behave?

    Make them register every street they live on like convicted pedophiles?


    How much punishment should they get if they are contrite and never touch a drink again?

    How does it help to "ruin the rest of their lives" as you suggest? That is quite a vengeful view of justice.

  16. #16
    Skin-Pounder Bikes-N-Drums's Avatar
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    This is exactly why I am glad to have a justice system, broken as it is. The victim's version of justice is always nothing short of medieval.
    We are the musicmakers and we are the dreamers of dreams...

  17. #17
    Old Peculier
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    must say your sig line contradicts your attitide.
    " morality and higher living by the cultivation of the social side of man, the rousing in him of the instincts of charity and love of his kind"
    not much evidence of that in your ranting for vengeance posts

  18. #18
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    Take your meds JV.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I had a concussion as a result.
    That explains a *lot*.

  20. #20
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theakston
    must say your sig line contradicts your attitide.
    " morality and higher living by the cultivation of the social side of man, the rousing in him of the instincts of charity and love of his kind"
    not much evidence of that in your ranting for vengeance posts
    One thing you may not know about the Mason's is we also speak out against injustice. Such as laws that are too leinent. We do not love or condone this sort of behavior. We share & show no charity to those who injure or kill because they drank & drove or broke any sort of law where this happens. To us those that do this sort of thing have no or very low moral values & do not value other people's lives. We feel the same way about child abusers & molestors too.

    At the same time we also teach & provide the tools to prevent this sort of behavior. If a person joins the fraternity & he has committed such crimes we allow him in provided he has paid the debt to society. We do not black ball him for this. But we do not give him absolution, nor forgivness. That is between him & who he believes to be his higher power.
    Last edited by N_C; 08-09-06 at 02:23 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    This guy should never be allowed to drive or own a motor vehicle legally ever again!
    He wasn't allowed to be driving at the time of the accident. He still got behind the wheel of a car.

    I'm all for strict drunk driving laws, but we have to be smart about it. A knee-jerk reaction of cranking upt the penalties doesn't solve the problem. We need a comprehensive approach. This guy is obviously an alcoholic-- he's got a disease. Outlawing drunk driving doesn't do anything to address his disease. So you need tough penalties and enforcement, and you need to make treatment options available for alcoholics who drive drunk. Otherwise, after they've been punished, you still have an alcoholic.

    Quote Originally Posted by John E
    My position:2) I favor stricter penalties for drunk drivers who injure, kill, or maim. Lifelong restitution payments, jail time, public service time, and loss of driving PRIVILEGE are all on my list of appropriate punishments.
    I agree with stiff penalties. However, I also think we need to stiffen the penalties for hit & run. Right now, drunk driving is penalized so heavily, and hit & run is penalized so lightly, that the rational choice following a drunk driving accident is to run. The solution is to penalize hit & run heavier than we penalize drunk driving. Whatevr the penalty is for drunk driving, triple it if it involves a hit & run. That creates an incentive to stay at the scene, and that incentive to stay creates an incentive to not drink & drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek
    Instead of just going after the drunks, enforcement should be tough on all incapacitated drivers. People who choose to drive when they can't stay awake, simply don't pay attention, or drive under the influence of certain medications are as dangerous as drunks, but the behavior doesn't carry the social taboo that drinking and driving does.
    I agree with outlawing distracted driving, but I don't think it should carry the same penalty as drunk driving. For instance, do you penalize "not paying attention" the same as you penalize "three sheets to the wind"? What about kids in the back seat screaming? I think there should be a class of identified behavior-- using a cell phone, shaving, applying make-up, etc.-- that carries a tough penalty for distracted driving, but that is not penalized as heavily as drunk driving.

  22. #22
    nm+
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    If you get caught drunk driving, first lime, lose you license foir 6 years, second time, you should lose your license forever (no bicycles either )
    You hit someone drunk, add jail to that. Kill, buh bye, jail forever.
    However, I'm noit fulkly convinced that the BAC numbers are right. Some places are rediculously low, like below .05, which is insane. I'm not fully convinced that .07 is high enough either. I think to impose as draconian punishments as I want, .1 needs to be the limit. Below that, a bit lighter punishments, if we can show how incapacitative that is. (And yes, I think hita nd run alws need to be rewritten. (If you run without cause [aka, mobs gonna kill you], and there is reason to think you were DUI, you should be able to be charged as such).
    Also, MADD used to be a good think. Now its moving toward neo-prohibition. Beer is not a bad thing, but a very (very) good thing. It just when too much is combined with driving that its a bad thing.
    Also distracted driving is not the same because should road conditions change you can drop those distractions. Not that poeople always do, but a conversation inba car is hardly the same as drinking. Even a cell phone can be dropped, just wish people %$&*ing knew it!
    Breaking bike parts for more than 20 years
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    So a drunk driver should get MORE jail time that someone who kills intentionally? Not that I like drunk drivers, but I see a problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by nm+
    If you get caught drunk driving, first lime, lose you license foir 6 years, second time, you should lose your license forever (no bicycles either )
    You hit someone drunk, add jail to that. Kill, buh bye, jail forever.
    However, I'm noit fulkly convinced that the BAC numbers are right. Some places are rediculously low, like below .05, which is insane. I'm not fully convinced that .07 is high enough either. I think to impose as draconian punishments as I want, .1 needs to be the limit. Below that, a bit lighter punishments, if we can show how incapacitative that is. (And yes, I think hita nd run alws need to be rewritten. (If you run without cause [aka, mobs gonna kill you], and there is reason to think you were DUI, you should be able to be charged as such).
    Also, MADD used to be a good think. Now its moving toward neo-prohibition. Beer is not a bad thing, but a very (very) good thing. It just when too much is combined with driving that its a bad thing.
    Also distracted driving is not the same because should road conditions change you can drop those distractions. Not that poeople always do, but a conversation inba car is hardly the same as drinking. Even a cell phone can be dropped, just wish people %$&*ing knew it!

  24. #24
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Do you think that if the Publisher of the local news paper in a city of 100,000 people, where this is the main news paper, is arrested for drunk driving that it is newsworthy to publish how his sentencing hearing went? The publisher killed the story about his sentencing (said it wasn't news - hah!) and then 13 reporters quit their jobs.

    Drunks apparently aren't good to be around in many situations.
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    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  25. #25
    nm+
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    So a drunk driver should get MORE jail time that someone who kills intentionally? Not that I like drunk drivers, but I see a problem here.
    I believe that driving drunk is intent.
    I drink, and I drive and somehow I separate the two. Any rational human should be able to too. There are so many other options:
    Friends
    Family
    Taxi
    Public Transit
    Some cities will actually pay for a tow truck to bring driver and car home.
    Worst case: Motel
    Its not like you accedently drive drunk.
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