Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    N_C
    N_C is offline
    Banned. N_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bannation, forever.
    Posts
    2,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thinking about ending my involvment...

    ...in the Siouxland Trails Foundation, or STF.

    The reasons have to do with the recent events surrounding the trail bridge that will be built over the Big Sioux River form Sioux City, Iowa to Dakota Dunes, South Dakota.

    In order for the CID board in the Dunes to agree to paying $50,000 of the $500,000 bridge Sioux City & STF had to compromise on 9 things. Part of the reason they did this is so they would not lose a grant that had a time limit on it. If it was not used the city would lose it. So they decide to hastily compromise as to not lose the grant.

    Here are some threads I have posted about this:

    Report regarding the bridge to connect the trail system in Sioux City & Dakota Dunes
    I love the oppositions reasons to not build the bridge :rolleyes:


    Here is an article in the paper explaining what the compromises are:

    http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/arti...ee0014fae8.txt

    When I expressed my disappointment & asked about how the trail will connect other then trail users using the roadways to access the Dunes trails I was told it will be up to Dakota Dunes to determine that.

    Because of all the politics involved with this that has lead to a trail bridge that will pretty much lead to no where I have had it.

    what do you think? Should I quietly end my involvment in protest or keep fighting the good fight?

    If I end my involvment I will complete the project I am currently working on for the STF. After which I will quietly stop doing things with them. I will no longer attend meetings, no longer work on projects, etc. Just simply disappear 7 have no more contact with them.
    Last edited by N_C; 09-22-06 at 10:13 PM.

  2. #2
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,114
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    N_C, in politics, ya win some and ya lose some! Best advice I can offer is this:

    1) If you quit, you won't have any input at a later date.
    2) If you quit, in spite of the fact that you can be a pain in the posterior (of this I am sure!), local SD cycling will have less effective advocacy. Hang in there and continue to be my favorite pain in the butt!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  3. #3
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    15,080
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stay involved and speak up/out! You can be far more effective if you work within any given organization than if you try to fight it from the outside.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  4. #4
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
    Posts
    4,077
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I really hate it when a really nice idea gets trashed but it sounds to me like there may be still some hope with Dooley doing additional research but I could be wrong as I don’t know the name and the politics there.

    The other thing is there could be some politics involved where nether side wants to be responsible for the nay vote so the compromise of finding additional funding may be a way that parties involved can say “we tried to get this bridge in but sorry we could not raise the money.” (Then come back 5(+) years later and try again to get the good bridge built.)

    I would wait till you see how these two points play out before making and decision about STF. In DC there was a pedestrian bridge that was going to go up but the locals protested hard about another option not being studied and should be done before a bridge is even considered (i.e. they found a loop hole to stop the plan as they did not want the bridge.) Well that other option really got cyclists on the band wagon to support the bridge and it is now proceeding. The compromise you mentioned may have a similar effect.

    Things can go back and forth a whole lot during the planning stage, so be patient. But do you really think that STF position should be that that no bridge (now) is better then this bridge to nowhere? (That’s a hard position to take for an advocacy organization.)
    Cycling Advocate
    http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
    . . . o
    . . /L
    =()>()

  5. #5
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger
    Posts
    8,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just sue them like you did Rodale/Bicycling.com forums.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  6. #6
    N_C
    N_C is offline
    Banned. N_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bannation, forever.
    Posts
    2,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Dunes could/can not stop the bridge from being built as it will connect to the trail which is on public land. They could have said no to their part of the funding, a measley $50,000, which is not much compared to what Sioux City has to raise for the remainder of the $500,000. In all honesty I would rather have had the Dunes say no to their $50,000 to have the bridge built where it should be, dorectly connecting both trails to one another. In the grand scheme of things the 50 grand is not a whole lot of money.

  7. #7
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    658
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think you have the balls to stand up and say what you think to those people. After all, it's the real public, not just another semi-anonymous forum...........

  8. #8
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,114
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar
    I don't think you have the balls to stand up and say what you think to those people. After all, it's the real public, not just another semi-anonymous forum...........
    Is a hit really necessary?
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  9. #9
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
    Posts
    4,059
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    The Dunes could/can not stop the bridge from being built as it will connect to the trail which is on public land. They could have said no to their part of the funding, a measley $50,000, which is not much compared to what Sioux City has to raise for the remainder of the $500,000. In all honesty I would rather have had the Dunes say no to their $50,000 to have the bridge built where it should be, dorectly connecting both trails to one another. In the grand scheme of things the 50 grand is not a whole lot of money.
    If $50K is not a lot of money, can you come up with it elsewhere? You also need to ask if the conditions are worth $50K?

    I also agree with others--you will not win all of your battles. If you leave the fight over a loss, you will lose every future battle by forfeit. A bad decision over a single bridge doesn't sound like a good reason to resign to me.

  10. #10
    N_C
    N_C is offline
    Banned. N_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bannation, forever.
    Posts
    2,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar
    I don't think you have the balls to stand up and say what you think to those people. After all, it's the real public, not just another semi-anonymous forum...........

    Do you always have to be such an *******?

    Here is my response to the report, how's this for having balls:

    "I am glad to see that the bridge will be built.

    But from a safety standpoint the location is a very bad idea. This will force trail users to ride down the roadway the golfers use to access the golf course. Then trail users will have to make a left turn down close to the Tyson office, then another to cross over I-29. If memory serves there is NO sidewalk or path along any part of these roadways that can be used to keep trail users safer then using the roadway. Once the trail users cross over I-29 they have to make a left turn again at the 4-way stop to access the trail where it starts. Which means they will be crossing in front of oncoming traffic that may want to turn right toward KMEG & I-29 southbound & will not expect trail users to be turning left in front of them.

    I could see the headline now. "Angered Family Mourns Loss of Toddler" The story would possibly tell how a toddler was hit by a car because the family using the trail system was walking on the roadway & how if the trail bridge was directly connected to Dunes Trail this could have been prevented. I don't know about you, but I don't want that on my conscious.

    I think too many compromises have been made here. I think the Dunes residents opposed to the trail pushed this thinking it will be a deterrent for certain trail users & prevent them from using their trail & having access to their community. I think that is what will happen. The amount of people who will cross on the bridge will not be as many as we are thinking it will be because of the roadways that will be used to directly access the Dunes trail. As far as I'm concerned this is no different then not having the bridge at all.

    It's great the money is or will be there. But for this one small step forward we have taken way too many steps back. Too many politics played a role in this that never should have. Too many compromises were made with this because some stuck up snobs want to keep what they view as riff raff out of their elite community. I think a lot of those people forgot where they came from. That community has not been there that long & is not their first home.

    The bottom line is unless you're an experienced cyclist used to riding in traffic on roadways & who wants to take a short cut into South Dakota the bridge will not be as used as we think it will or would like it to be.

    My opinion is until something can be done to make it safer to access the Dunes Trail with out having to use the roadways this bridge should not be built. Keep the money in place until then, but do not start construction until access can be made safer."


    Here is the reply back from the STF president:

    "John, our board agreed to support the option the Dunes voted on as a compromise. Without this compromise we would have no connection and loose the money from the Iowa side with no guarantee that it will be available in the future. The political will on the Dunes Board of Supervisor's part was not there to make the direct trail connection."


    My return reply:

    "So what kind of safe connection option is there for trail users to access the Dunes Trail? isn't there a little dirt or gravel road that is under the I-29 bridge on the South Dakota side that could be paved or have a trail spur built from the roadway for the gold course to the Dunes trail? Who owns or is responsible for that land? The Dunes, the golf course or the South Dakota DOT? It seems if it is public or DOT right of way land the DOT can do what they want with it.

    The article in the paper mentioned a fence the Dunes was going to install. Where is this going to go? Where their trail is near I-29 just on the other side the Big Sioux River? If that is where then a direct access with a trail spur may not be possible. The article also mentioned a direct connection on the South Dakota side. What kind if connection do they have in mind? A trail spur as I mentioned above? Also what would it take to get the DOT to put a path along the roadway that is the overpass where traffic exits & enters I-29? Or is that the DOT's responsibility?

    Another thing that may not have been looked at is is it legal to walk, roller blade or use some other means of mobility other then bicycle or motor vehicle on the roadways in South Dakota that will be used to cross over to the Dunes trail? Who is responsible for those roadways? There is county, state & possibly city or community. If the Dunes is responsible for the roadways they may adopt ordinances & policies that restrict how users travel on those roadways. They restrict to only bicycle & motor vehicle traffic. This way the only trail users that access their elite community have to do so by bike.

    I got to tell you I am disappointed in how this was done. I know the money Sioux City has could be lost if it is not used. Ok, so be it, there is the Cone Grant isn't there? The worst that would have happened is it would take longer for the bridge to be built. But at least it could have been built in a location allowing direct access to their trail system. Meaning it would be safer for all. I do not like the politics behind this. Sioux City & STF compromised to way too much. The Dunes won on this issue more then we think. They only compromised on one thing, having the bridge built. We had to compromise on 9 according to the article in the paper.

    There is also another safety aspect to this too. I have been talking about the safety of using the trail from Sioux City to the Dunes. But what about the reveres? There may be Dunes residents wanting to come from their community over to Sioux City & will have to do so on the same roadways I have mentioned to access the bridge. I wonder what will happen when one of them is hurt or killed by a motorists because they forced the bridge to be built where we agreed to put it? Maybe if it happens they will rethink the issue.

    Is there a possibility of moving the bridge at a later time to directly connect the 2 trail systems?

    John"


    The STF's president reply, after which I said no more about it:

    "John, we successfully (we think) fought a very tough battle behind the scenes to keep the bridge where it was initially intended, i.e. next to the interstate bridges. This is only a few yards from the Dunes trail. Having sat thru all of the public meetings on this issue at the Dunes and listening to the residents both pro and con, the direct connection would have screwed this up and the bridge, in my personal opinion, would have been lost for MANY years. Is it ideal - NO, is it better than no bridge - ABSOLUTELY ! - Still far safer than Riverside Blvd, for example.

    This is still a very fragile situation. Let's get the bridge built. After some initial period, residents who were concerned will see that trail use is a non-issue or even a positive. Those for the direct link will then be able to prevail to get the direct link done.

    I understand your disappointment, but compromise does make sense. We will not be effective as an organization if we don't work with the government bodies and those with concerns. This will still be our biggest accomplishment. We have gained numerous new allies for trails in the area and working on this fund raising will do even more along those lines to get things done in the future.

    As for the Cone Grant, there is a committee appointed by the City Council working on that. We were not successful in getting anyone on that committee. I don't know what will come out of it for trails. We have several other big issues going also (1) monitoring I-29 for the Chattaqua to Chris Larson (DOT has written to us that they heard us at the public comment meetings and will work towards getting that trail link done in connection with the I-29 re-build. Unfortunately it is a few years away. (2) Still a chance we may get a trail along re-constructed Transit. (3) Dakota City Trail - we are in communication regularly with the Dakota City City Mgr on their work with the Contractor to fix the drainage issues."

  11. #11
    N_C
    N_C is offline
    Banned. N_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bannation, forever.
    Posts
    2,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I also sent the same initial response to the Parks & Rec. director of Sioux City. Here is his reply to me:

    "It is unfortunate that politics has played a part in this project but sometimes a compromise is better than no progress. Now is the time. I fully expect that the direct trail connection will be in place within 5 years. If Dunes users feel a sense of insecurity traveling on the street with the traffic, then they will push for the connection. The risk factors you have identified are the responsibility of the Dakota Dunes CID."

    I love the fact that all STF & Sioux City wanted to do was get the $50,000 & compromise at anything to get it so the bridge could be built. Thus leaving everything else to the Dunes, who will probably not lift a finger to expedite things for any kind of safer or more direct connection from where the bridge terminates on the South Dakpta side to the Dunes trail.

  12. #12
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,114
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I also sent the same initial response to the Parks & Rec. director of Sioux City. Here is his reply to me:

    "It is unfortunate that politics has played a part in this project but sometimes a compromise is better than no progress. Now is the time. I fully expect that the direct trail connection will be in place within 5 years. If Dunes users feel a sense of insecurity traveling on the street with the traffic, then they will push for the connection. The risk factors you have identified are the responsibility of the Dakota Dunes CID."

    I love the fact that all STF & Sioux City wanted to do was get the $50,000 & compromise at anything to get it so the bridge could be built. Thus leaving everything else to the Dunes, who will probably not lift a finger to expedite things for any kind of safer or more direct connection from where the bridge terminates on the South Dakpta side to the Dunes trail.
    They're right, though, that politics plays a role and if not used it would be lost. The step toward ideak has been taken though, remember that and use this partial victory to build to the next step, N_C!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  13. #13
    N_C
    N_C is offline
    Banned. N_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bannation, forever.
    Posts
    2,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I may still continue my involvement with the STF, I've yet to make a final decision. If I continue to be a part of STF I will have nothing to do with the bridge, that much is certain. I will focus my attention on other projects & priorities that need to be dealt with.

  14. #14
    Cat WTF
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,297
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    9-23-06 you write:
    "Thinking about ending my involvment in the Siouxland Trails Foundation, or STF"



    9-24-06 you wrote:
    "I may still continue my involvement with the STF"


    I'm so ready to hear what you have to say tomorrow on this issue.

  15. #15
    N_C
    N_C is offline
    Banned. N_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bannation, forever.
    Posts
    2,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cat4ever
    9-23-06 you write:
    "Thinking about ending my involvment in the Siouxland Trails Foundation, or STF"



    9-24-06 you wrote:
    "I may still continue my involvement with the STF"


    I'm so ready to hear what you have to say tomorrow on this issue.
    They both mean the same thing. I am thinking about ending my involvement & have not made a decision on it yet. "Thinking about..." & "may still continue..." mean the same thing as far as I know. How do you interprite them?

  16. #16
    Cat WTF
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,297
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    How do you interprite them?


    I don't know how to interprite.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •