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Old 10-07-06, 10:28 AM   #1
Blue Order
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What's up with all the joggers in the bike lanes?

And should I just run them down?
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Old 10-07-06, 10:38 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Well that really depends on how you feel about motorists running you down while you are on the road.
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Old 10-07-06, 10:42 AM   #3
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And should I just run them down?
Honk at um.
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Old 10-07-06, 10:45 AM   #4
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Runners using BL (or street) facing traffic is totally fine with me. They should step to/on curb if a cyclist is approaching.

Runner face similiar visibility and sidewalk dangers (driveways, congestion) as cyclist would) Being on the road is often much safer. Running opposing traffic does not create the same dangers as cycling into traffic due to lower speeds and ability of runner to stop/change direction rapidly.

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Old 10-07-06, 01:26 PM   #5
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i say more power to em! they are still 1 less car, they are exercising, and if we should collide it's less likely to be fatal. i run into very few joggers when commuting, and when i do they usually go up on the sidewalk, and if they don't see me or just don't move i move into the lane if it's vacant, or i'll jump up on the sidewalk to pass them.
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Old 10-07-06, 02:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Yes. And now we see why cyclists get bad reputations.
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Old 10-07-06, 02:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
NAh...just tell 'em cycling is a lower impact sport. I say the more people on the roads, the better....conveys the correct iimpression that they are or should be multiple use facilities.

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Old 10-07-06, 02:44 PM   #8
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Some of them have told me that the sidewalks have more surface and tripping hazards than the road.

I've only had a problem with a jogger one time. It was early in the morning, and he was jogging in the bike lane facing traffic. When he saw me away in the distance, he moved to his right, so I could pass in between him and the curb. I wasn't going to do that, so I moved out into the travel lane so that he could move back towards the curb. To my surprise, he moved further right - into the travel lane! At that point, I figured he wasn't going to get it, so I went back into the bike lane and passed him on the inside.
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Old 10-07-06, 03:22 PM   #9
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I must be confused. Sidewalk for peds. Street for bikes, cars, and motorcycles. Um?
Anyhow, it's their life. Just stay away from me.
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Old 10-07-06, 03:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DataJunkie
Just stay away from me.
Well, that's what I was kind of thinking this morning. I was up earlier than usual, and walking to work, and there were tons of joggers out, on the sidewalks and in the bike lanes. I don't usually see that, because I'm not usually up and out at 8 A.M. on a Saturday...

Anyway, these joggers were not in conflict with any bikers, because no bikers were out on the road. But I was wondering if these joggers had any intentions to yield the bike lane if a biker came along (because some were running with traffic, and couldn't even see a bike coming. Not to mention that they have no right to the bike lane to begin with. I couldn't help but wonder if some of these people haven't yelled at a biker to get on the sidewalk at some point...

But the run them down comment wasn't serious.
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Old 10-07-06, 08:27 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
Well, that's what I was kind of thinking this morning. I was up earlier than usual, and walking to work, and there were tons of joggers out, on the sidewalks and in the bike lanes. I don't usually see that, because I'm not usually up and out at 8 A.M. on a Saturday...

Anyway, these joggers were not in conflict with any bikers, because no bikers were out on the road. But I was wondering if these joggers had any intentions to yield the bike lane if a biker came along (because some were running with traffic, and couldn't even see a bike coming. Not to mention that they have no right to the bike lane to begin with. I couldn't help but wonder if some of these people haven't yelled at a biker to get on the sidewalk at some point...

But the run them down comment wasn't serious.
I think you are a little to concerned. I used to run for exercise instad of cycle and I very often ran in the road facing traffic (when relatively light). It is far easiet to see oncoming traffic and hop up on the curb.sidewalk than it is to deal with the bad sightlines at every intersection (driveways, etc.). Much of the same problems that cyclists encounter, runners do to. I hate to say it by running in the road facing traffic is like DLP. I grew up in a rural area where there were no sidewalks and roads were narrow. Running in facing traffic far into the lane (and moving over for approaching cars) was the only safe way to run. It is also how everyone walked on the roads too. Helps the drivers see you better and gives them a chance to move a bit left so they don't get to close, even after you have stepped off the pavement onto the narrow shoulder. (sometimes with guardrail or trees or embankment)

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Old 10-08-06, 10:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
Not to mention that they have no right to the bike lane to begin with.
I cannot agree with your statement. I feel, as a cyclist, I have every right to ride in the street - bike lane or no bike lane. I also feel that a pedestrian has the right to run in the street.

None of us have the right to impede traffic (of any kind) - cars don't have a right to impede traffic, either.

IMHO, "Share the Road" signs mean just that - everybody shares.

I also tend to treat the least powerful mode of transportation as though it has the right of way - that could be me in some situations, others in another situation depending upon who is walking/running/driving/cycling, etc.

Caruso
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Old 10-08-06, 11:01 AM   #13
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Bicycle advocates that say runners shouldn't be in the bike lane are the biggest hyprocrates ever. Think of what you're saying; you're acting just like another mad motorist saying "Get the hell outta my lane!"
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Old 10-08-06, 12:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I cannot agree with your statement. I feel, as a cyclist, I have every right to ride in the street - bike lane or no bike lane. I also feel that a pedestrian has the right to run in the street.
May not be true everywhere, but here it is illegal to run or walk in the street if there is a sidewalk available. And there are sidewalks almost everywhere.

I don't have a big problem with runners in the bike lane, but I seldom have a runner I'm passing yield to my bike. They usually hold the middle and force me to swerve. And they often run with traffic instead of against. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate.
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Old 10-08-06, 12:20 PM   #15
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but I seldom have a runner I'm passing yield to my bike. They usually hold the middle and force me to swerve. And they often run with traffic instead of against. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate.
I seldom see bike yield to my car even when I honk like mad. They usually hole the middle of the line instead of the ridding in the gutter like they should and force me to swerve almost in the next lane. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate since they usually flip me a couple of birds when I pass jk
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Old 10-08-06, 01:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by LCI_Brian
Some of them have told me that the sidewalks have more surface and tripping hazards than the road.
I think we all know how that is...

When I ran (did it sporadically and occasionally years ago) I stuck to the roads. They're easier on your joints, less likely to trip over things than on the sidewalks, and you're more visible to approaching traffic (right hook, anyone?).

I don't mind joggers as long as they're heading towards me. When they're on the wrong (right side) side of the road, then I find it gets dicey.
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Old 10-08-06, 02:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Nooo, you might hurt your bike. Do the right thing, patiently explain to them that they would be much safer if they took the traffic lane and practiced 'Pop goes the Jogger' - aka DLLP.
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Old 10-08-06, 03:41 PM   #18
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Runner force me to slow down and pass them at safe distance. Oh no! it really mess up my average speed on my cyclocomputer. It's even worst when It's not safe to pass I have to wait for a few seconds I rather accelerate and do a friendly bump so they get the message /sarcastic
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Old 10-08-06, 05:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I cannot agree with your statement. I feel, as a cyclist, I have every right to ride in the street - bike lane or no bike lane. I also feel that a pedestrian has the right to run in the street.

None of us have the right to impede traffic (of any kind) - cars don't have a right to impede traffic, either.

IMHO, "Share the Road" signs mean just that - everybody shares.

Caruso
That is your opinion, but it is not what traffic law says.

"Share the Road" does not mean everybody shares the same space on the road and therefore can drive, walk or park whereever they like. For example, bus lanes are reserved for buses and you cannot bike or walk on a bus lane. Similarly, you as a motorist or cyclist cannot "share" the bus stop with transit buses and stop your car or bicycle in front of a bus stop.

A bicycle lane is a reserved lane for bicycles and is NOT necessarily located far right to the road. Here in Ottawa, it can be far left to the road, or in between a bus lane and a regular lane, or between two traffic lanes, or any configurations thereof. Because bike lanes are designed to be integrated with other traffic lanes, jogging on the bike lane is extremely dangerous and joggers can be ticketed for jay walking by police.

NOTE: in the winter time, some people do run on the roads (because of snow on the sidewalks) which is still illegal. Usually homeowners are responsible for clearing snow and ice for the portion of side walk in front of his house - otherwise he can be held liable if someone trips.

Where pedestrains can share a bike lane with cyclists, it is usually clearly marked as a multi-use lane.
Such a bike path is a mixed use path and is away from regular road traffic. Here, pedestrians, roller skaters, joggers, cyclists, wheelchairs, baby strollers, etc., can share the path together.

Last edited by yuhoo; 10-08-06 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 10-08-06, 05:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I also tend to treat the least powerful mode of transportation as though it has the right of way - that could be me in some situations, others in another situation depending upon who is walking/running/driving/cycling, etc.

Caruso
You should brush up your knowledge of traffic law on who has the right of way. It is NOT the least powerful mode of transportation who has the right of way, otherwise you may not arrive your destination in one piece.

For example, when a human powered bicycle and a 300 horsepower sports car both come to a four way stop sign at the same time, the right of way is not the "least powerful mode of transportation".
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Old 10-08-06, 05:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Nooo, you might hurt your bike. Do the right thing, patiently explain to them that they would be much safer if they took the traffic lane and practiced 'Pop goes the Jogger' - aka DLLP.
At last, somebody who can think clearly! These joggers are clearly bicycular joggers, inspired by bicycular jogging advoacte John Collander. Rather than risk death on the sidewalk due to the inadvertent drift of bicycles from the bike lane onto the sidewalk, they choose to jog in the bike lane, where there is a greater chance that they will first get and then hold the attention of bicyclists.This method reduces the likelihood of inadvertent drift due to inattentional blindness, because what is irrelevant to the bicyclist-- for example, a jogger on the sidewalk-- won't be seen by the bicyclist, and when that bicyclist takes the inevitable sex break, the bicycle may drift onto the sidewalk, thereby killing the jogger. Logic and reason tell us that the solution to this problem is for the jogger to take the bike lane long enough to get and then hold the attention of the bicyclist. The main impediment to getting joggers to abandon the sidewalks and run with the other traffic is overcoming the jogger-inferiority complex that pervades jogging today.

It's a thankless task, but if one jogger's life can be saved because of bicycular jogging, it will have been worth it.








Last edited by Blue Order; 10-08-06 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 10-08-06, 05:46 PM   #22
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I think you've solved the mystery! These joggers are clearly bicycular joggers, inspired by bicycular jogging advoacte John Collander. Rather than risk death on the sidewalk due to the inadvertent drift of bicycles from the bike lane onto the sidewalk, they choose to jog in the bike lane, where there is a greater chance that they will first get and then hold the attention of bicyclists.This method reduces the likelihood of inadvertent drift due to inattentional blindness, because what is irrelevant to the bicyclist-- for example, a jogger on the sidewalk-- won't be seen by the bicyclist, and when that bicyclist takes the inevitable sex break, the bicycle may drift onto the sidewalk, thereby killing the jogger. Logic and reason tell us that the solution to this problem is for the jogger to take the bike lane long enough to get and then hold the attention of the bicyclist. The main impediment to getting joggers to abandon the sidewalks and run with the other traffic is overcoming the jogger-inferiority complex that pervades jogging today.

It's a thankless task, but if one jogger's life can be saved because of bicycular jogging, it will have been worth it.

20 bonus points priceless!

What's up with all the people in lawn chairs on the sidewalk? Pedicular sitting?
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Old 10-08-06, 05:54 PM   #23
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Bicycle advocates that say runners shouldn't be in the bike lane are the biggest hyprocrates ever. Think of what you're saying; you're acting just like another mad motorist saying "Get the hell outta my lane!"
Yes, according to the law, motorists are supposed to "stay away from my lane", but I have the right to your lane (but not the right to other reserved lanes such as bus lanes, transit ways, taxi lanes, LRT rails, etc.). Here in Ottawa, transit buses and taxicabs can stop in my lanes only to load and unload passengers, otherwise, they must move out of the way.

Pedestrains, together with other personal mobile devices such as wheelchairs, roller skates, baby strollers, etc., do not have the right to any traffic lanes. If there is no sidewalk, use the shoulder. Otherwise, it is called jaywalking and can be ticketed. And it will be really messy for insurance purposes if they get injured.
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Old 10-08-06, 06:01 PM   #24
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20 bonus points priceless!

What's up with all the people in lawn chairs on the sidewalk? Pedicular sitting?

Pedicular sitting

This brings to mind sbhikes and her traveling beach chair.
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Old 10-08-06, 07:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cc_rider
May not be true everywhere, but here it is illegal to run or walk in the street if there is a sidewalk available. And there are sidewalks almost everywhere.

I don't have a big problem with runners in the bike lane, but I seldom have a runner I'm passing yield to my bike. They usually hold the middle and force me to swerve. And they often run with traffic instead of against. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate.
Most of my running was done on relatively quiet residential streets and when traffic is very low (a car every few minutes at most) I'd run very far into the lane, not center, but close. Main reason was this was a residential area and the biggest danger were drivers backing out of their driveways without looking down the sidewalk. Center of the lane gave me sightlines to see them and for them to sometimes see me, but most important, a few extra feet for me to react to them pulling out of their driveway. Same applied at side streets where most drivers don't stop at intersections in quiet residential areas.
Most of these residential streets did not have a bike lane, but some did.
As to stepping aside for cyclist, as I was facing traffic and could see well down the road if a car was not coming from behind cyclist, I moved toward curb, but stayed on the road or the bikelane. These were situations where it was all to easy for the cyclist to merge a bit out of the BL and pass me. I would never call it forcing the cyclist to swerve.
On busier roads I didn't run in the road/BL so it was never an issue.
Keep in mind all this is runnng facing oncoming traffic. Running on street with back to traffic is stupid.
Al
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