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  1. #1
    Dr.Deltron
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    Last edited by Dr.Deltron; 01-03-10 at 11:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Banned Bikepacker67's Avatar
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    Very Weirdly Cold.

  3. #3
    N_C
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    I have serious doubts not letting him drive had anything to do with his death. Someone can not die because they can not drive. For those of you who want to claim taking a freedom such as driving helped kill him, I don't think so.

    Thank you for helping to keep the roadways safe for the rest of us from elderly drivers who should not be behind the wheel of a car.

  4. #4
    Senior Member R-Wells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I have serious doubts not letting him drive had anything to do with his death. Someone can not die because they can not drive. For those of you who want to claim taking a freedom such as driving helped kill him, I don't think so.

    Thank you for helping to keep the roadways safe for the rest of us from elderly drivers who should not be behind the wheel of a car.
    You are right people dont die because they cant drive.

    For many elderly people not being able to drive is more of a sign that they no longer capable of caring for themself.When an independent person can no longer do things for themself they sometimes just give up.

    The same thing happened to my grandmother when we put her in a nursing home.
    She hated the fact that she could not care for herself.
    She never had a drivers license, and never even learned to drive a car.

    Its not about us taking the freedom away, its about age taking the freedom away.
    _______________________________________________________________
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  5. #5
    Dr.Deltron
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Wells
    You are right people dont die because they cant drive.
    When an independent person can no longer do things for themself they sometimes just give up.

    Its not about us taking the freedom away, its about age taking the freedom away.
    That was definetly Pops case.

  6. #6
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Thank you for removing a killer from our streets. As a society, we need to make a much greater commitment to those who cannot drive or who choose not to drive. We need better public transit and a fully interconnected system of 35mph / 55kph roads on which folks can legally operate neighborhood electric vehicles. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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    Any chance that he could've simply gotten retested and driven? If he didn't pass, then it's another issue. But I have a problem with assuming older folks simply can't handle certain tasks, without having the evidence to prove it.
    Same roads, same rights, same rules.
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  8. #8
    Dr.Deltron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngchen
    Any chance that he could've simply gotten retested and driven? If he didn't pass, then it's another issue. But I have a problem with assuming older folks simply can't handle certain tasks, without having the evidence to prove it.
    I guess I ommitted that part; I went and got him the DMV handbook and told him that if he read the whole thing, he would probably pass the test. He didn't read it and subsequently didn't pass the written test. They did say that he could come back the next day and try again, but he didn't.

    So that's when I took the keys (and the distributor cap)

    A funny note; the Visiting Nurse who came in those last weeks to help with Pops, reported his drinking to the DMV. 6 months after he passed away, the DMV sent him a notice telling him that they were suspending his driver license until he could prove sobriety!!

    At least they DID do something!

  9. #9
    Dr.Deltron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
    Very Weirdly Cold.
    Yes, well, I still feel kind of guilty about it.
    I decided to post it after reading the other thread about "Driver gets 90 days in cyclists death"
    I didn't want Pops to be that driver.

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    Driving is not a freedom.
    Sorry to go off topic on this one.
    I actually had an argument with a coworker a few months ago because the state was restricting his constitutional right to drive a car.
    Ironically, I have a copy of The History Chanel magazine in my toolbox with the entire constitution in it. I handed it to him and asked him to point that "right" out to me.
    Our conversation was over shortly afterwards.

    I however have been informed, many many times, that I DO have "the right to remain silent".

  11. #11
    N_C
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    I have heard of elderly people giving up because they have certain restictions imposed on them, such as driving a car. But I do not understand how they die from that. If they are being cared for, they are eating food to keep themselves healthy, they are not self violent & they are in relativly good health, no heart or lung problems, no cancers, etc. how can a person die from just giving up?

    I do not buy the fact that something unphysical can end a persons life. Typically when someone dies there is a physical reason for it. Even natural causes has a physical reason behind it, like the heart simply stopped beating. That is a physical action the body ceases to do, thus ending the persons life.

    With saying the person gave up is like saying they mentally thought themselves to death, sorry don't buy it. If it is not to late I'd have an autopsy done to see what he died from. I would want answers. Just giving up? No, not buying it, that is not a cause of death, something else ended his life.

  12. #12
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Deltron
    I guess I ommitted that part; I went and got him the DMV handbook and told him that if he read the whole thing, he would probably pass the test. He didn't read it and subsequently didn't pass the written test. They did say that he could come back the next day and try again, but he didn't.

    So that's when I took the keys (and the distributor cap)

    A funny note; the Visiting Nurse who came in those last weeks to help with Pops, reported his drinking to the DMV. 6 months after he passed away, the DMV sent him a notice telling him that they were suspending his driver license until he could prove sobriety!!

    At least they DID do something!
    Was your dad an alcoholic?

  13. #13
    Senior Member hockeyteeth's Avatar
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    Jeez, some people are being harsh about your father's condition...

    I'm sorry for your loss. And thanks for doing the right thing, even though it hurt you and your father emotionally.

  14. #14
    Senior Member dave80909's Avatar
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    There are no such things as "rights" period.
    If they are granted by some entity they can be taken away, and
    are therefore not rights.

    Only Choice...You may choose to do anything you want, but there
    are/may be consequences to your choice.

    When you get on public roads you accept the fact that there is risk
    and you either accept that risk or not. Yes it's too bad people die, but
    you can not foam pad every sharp edge in the world on the basis that
    someone might get hurt by it.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ollo_ollo's Avatar
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    I heard those same expletive filled sentences when I took the keys to the Buick & the motor home from my dad after he sideswiped 5 parked cars with his motor home. He had some kind of trouble with the Buick & had driven to the hospital in the motor home to see his doctor (also the wrong place). Those big motor homes don't manouver very well in parking lots. Sometimes we have to deny a privilege for everybody's sake. Dad complained a few times but eventually was ok with me driving him around.

  16. #16
    Senior Member R-Wells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I have heard of elderly people giving up because they have certain restictions imposed on them, such as driving a car. But I do not understand how they die from that. If they are being cared for, they are eating food to keep themselves healthy, they are not self violent & they are in relativly good health, no heart or lung problems, no cancers, etc. how can a person die from just giving up?

    I do not buy the fact that something unphysical can end a persons life. Typically when someone dies there is a physical reason for it. Even natural causes has a physical reason behind it, like the heart simply stopped beating. That is a physical action the body ceases to do, thus ending the persons life.

    With saying the person gave up is like saying they mentally thought themselves to death, sorry don't buy it. If it is not to late I'd have an autopsy done to see what he died from. I would want answers. Just giving up? No, not buying it, that is not a cause of death, something else ended his life.

    You just have to go through it to understand.
    _______________________________________________________________
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  17. #17
    Tom (ex)Builder twahl's Avatar
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    Dr. D - Sorry about your loss, and though there is obviously some guilty feeling there, you did what you did for the best.

    Cricket: Has anyone informed you of the difference between a "freedom" and a "right"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrosseyedCrickt
    Driving is not a freedom.
    Sorry to go off topic on this one.
    I actually had an argument with a coworker a few months ago because the state was restricting his constitutional right to drive a car.
    Ironically, I have a copy of The History Chanel magazine in my toolbox with the entire constitution in it. I handed it to him and asked him to point that "right" out to me.
    Our conversation was over shortly afterwards.

    I however have been informed, many many times, that I DO have "the right to remain silent".
    Tom

    "It hurts so good..."

  18. #18
    My bicycle is fixed Brian Sorrell's Avatar
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    You did the right thing. Did you hear about the elderly driver a couple of years ago who killed and maimed something like 60,000 people in Santa Monica at the farmers' market? Ok, not exactly that many, but he killed a slew of people and injured scores of others. It was driver malfunction.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5590266

    Now if only we could RAISE the legal driving age to at least 18, and get the cell phones out of the hands and ears of drivers.....

    (Side note that I posted elsewhere: a co-worker imparted the following important safety tip to her 16 year old, brand new driver, while talking to her on the cell phone, while the daughter was driving: "Don't mess with the radio while you're on the phone." I believe that the best word for my reaction was "flabbergasted." As a commuting cyclist who lives near these people, I cringed for my own safety and the safety of everyone within pissing distance of this kid. She doesn't belong strapped inside 3,000 pounds of steel and gasoline. Period.)

  19. #19
    Dr.Deltron
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    how can a person die from just giving up?
    You'll have to ask my Dad.

  20. #20
    Ths Hipstr Kills Masheenz cc700's Avatar
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    so wait...

    you said a cyclist killed him, and you're a cyclist...

    you also said he was a drinker and extremely bent out of shape about not being allowed to drive...




    but i don't understand... did not driving make him kill himself/lose the will to live? did he drink himself to death?

    or did you kill him?

    i don't understand, it sounds like you're very sensible and cared a great deal for him, so i don't actually think you killed him, but it sure sounded like it!

  21. #21
    Speed Demon *roll eyes*
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    I am sorry about your loss as well, and do think you did the right thing. One of the issues that families face when elderly drivers become unsafe (vs being a killer, how nice...) is that the loss of freedom that the driver's license represents can have serious detremental effects on their physical well being. Doctors have a tough choice to make when they council people to give up their driving. Some people have no problems with it, but some have hung onto that license like a life line, literally.

    N_C: sorry mate, you are dead wrong. People can and do think themselves to death more than most realize. I know of several people who were in otherwise ok shape for their age who just gave up when a loved one died. They died for no apparent reason shortly after.
    1998 Specialized S-works Hardtail - hotrodded
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  22. #22
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtsmile
    I am sorry about your loss as well, and do think you did the right thing. One of the issues that families face when elderly drivers become unsafe (vs being a killer, how nice...) is that the loss of freedom that the driver's license represents can have serious detremental effects on their physical well being. Doctors have a tough choice to make when they council people to give up their driving. Some people have no problems with it, but some have hung onto that license like a life line, literally.

    N_C: sorry mate, you are dead wrong. People can and do think themselves to death more than most realize. I know of several people who were in otherwise ok shape for their age who just gave up when a loved one died. They died for no apparent reason shortly after.
    I bet an autopsy might reveal a physical reason for their death. If there was nothing showing unnatural causes the death would be determined as natural causes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_causes

    http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0342.Me.r.html

    http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/natural_causes.htm

    http://www.bristol-inquiry.org.uk/fi...pter_18_12.htm

  23. #23
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    Interestingly, I'm going through this same situation right now with my grandpa.

    He's been told by doctors not to drive because he could go permanently blind at any moment, but he drives anyway.
    My mom is going to be doing pretty much the same thing you did, if he won't stop.

    Don't feel bad about what happend, I'm surehe didn't pass because of what you did.

    If I was in that same situation and let him drive and he hit someone, I would feel bad because I was responsible for him.

  24. #24
    Senior Member R-Wells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I bet an autopsy might reveal a physical reason for their death. If there was nothing showing unnatural causes the death would be determined as natural causes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_causes

    http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0342.Me.r.html

    http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/natural_causes.htm

    http://www.bristol-inquiry.org.uk/fi...pter_18_12.htm
    Of course it will show a reason.

    I gotta say, your posts are sounding kinda crude and insinsitve.


    You just dont seem to beleive that a persons will to live has anything to do with their living or dieing.
    When an elderly person loses the desire to live they quit takeing care of themselfs.
    They might quit taking meds.
    They might quit eating.
    They become inactive and sedintary.
    They just quit caring

    In the health care field it is called "Failure to thrive"
    _______________________________________________________________
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  25. #25
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I hope you at least kept the house full of bourbon for the poor old man in his final days after you took away the last and only pleasure he had in the world.

    Also, I'm sure you aren't the only person to disable to car to prevent such a thing.

    I remember my first husband was a gas station attendant and he told me the story of this elderly customer who came in for gas and asked for directions to a store down the street. He gave him the directions and the customer said to him, "I understand the words but I can't understand what you are saying." He kept saying that over and over. He had alzheimers and couldn't find his way to the store. My husband finally just took the keys from him and drove him to the store. He also was able to call someone to come and take the man home again, and asked that they not allow him to drive anymore.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

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