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Old 10-15-06, 04:43 PM   #1
sbhikes
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Time for another exercise

Admit it. There are times when the bike lane is your refuge.

Would you use the bike lane on Highway 101? The speed limit is 65 mph, two lanes in each direction in these photos, and 3 lanes in some spots where the bike lane exists.

Would you ride further to the right than the bike lane in the first picture? Lots of people do.

Would you ride in the right turn lane in the second picture? I certainly would, all the way to the right of it.

What do you think of picture 3? Can you honestly say you would not feel safer in the bike lane?

Would you try Powerweave/DLLP/Peek-a-boo on the 101?

Here's a satillite image.

Here are some pictures.
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Old 10-15-06, 04:46 PM   #2
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Oh, and let me add: the traffic appears light but that is only because it's going very fast (probably 85) and there are large gaps between cars at that high rate of speed. If only the ones with the giant tractor-trailers came out I would have posted those.
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Old 10-15-06, 05:05 PM   #3
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Looks like the interstate. But, if it has at-grade intersections, than I guess it isn't. Nothing I can think of roughly comparable here in MD. If it has traffic lights, in MD the speed limit would be 55 MPH or lower.

In the first photo, is that a merge lane to the right of the bike lane? Or, a shoulder. Either way does not look like a good design for a bike lane. The last photo with no bike lane markings I am assuming is a shoulder and that's were I would ride if using this road.
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Old 10-15-06, 05:25 PM   #4
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In the first photo, the area to the right is for parking. The middle between the bike lane and the parking, there's some paint you can't read that actually says "No Parking". The right portion is for parking. People often surf here. It's the Rincon, from the song by the Beach Boys.

In the third photo, that shoulder is actually marked as the bike lane, just like the first picture, but there's no parking on that side.
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Old 10-15-06, 06:22 PM   #5
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If that's the section of the 101 north of La Conchita, we rode that on the Cool Breeze century. In your first photo, we rode the bike lane...definitely an adrenaline rush. Going south to the end of the century route, we made really good time because I just wanted to get off of the 101!
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Old 10-15-06, 07:20 PM   #6
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Man that looks harry!! The 101 is a Freeway. U wouldn't catch me taking a lane there. I'd be looking to bail into the ocean! The 18 to Lake Arrowhead is technically a freeway but the speed limit there is 55. I stayed as far right as possible. Parts of PCH r probably as dangerous.
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Old 10-15-06, 08:05 PM   #7
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Is there a minimum posted speed limit on this roadway?
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Old 10-15-06, 08:08 PM   #8
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These are getting old...


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Old 10-15-06, 09:57 PM   #9
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Old 10-16-06, 09:07 AM   #10
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Is there a minimum posted speed limit on this roadway?
I don't believe I have ever seen a posted minimum speed in the State of California. On the day these pictures were taken, it would appear that 65 was the minimum.
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Old 10-16-06, 09:34 AM   #11
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I ask because if there is a minimum posted limit, in most jurisdictions unless traffic can maintain the minimum posted limit they are not to be on the roadway. If a vehicle is having trouble then that is a legitimate reason to not go the min. limit. but a vehicle that can not maintain the min. limit before it enters the roadway are not to do so.
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Old 10-16-06, 09:52 AM   #12
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Well, this is the official Pacific Coast bike route and it is marked as a bike lane.
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Old 10-16-06, 09:54 AM   #13
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OK, now imagine the same thing on a local surface street... yup, 60 MPH on a city surface street with a bike lane.

What I don't understand is that a freeway runs right next to this surface street... are they just trying to add another lane or what?
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Old 10-16-06, 09:56 AM   #14
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It has a bike lane so the traffic engineers apparently did not see the speed differential as a problem. Don't know if the accident stats support this. Never seen minimum speeds posted but there are signs forbibbing certain types of transportation, see http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21960.htm for details
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Old 10-16-06, 02:23 PM   #15
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Nice toes
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Old 10-16-06, 03:22 PM   #16
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This is a case - like all freeway shoulders that are designated as bike lanes - where even I would ride in the shoulder.

Rural spotty 50-60 mph is significantly different from 60-80 mph busy freeway traffic.
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Old 10-16-06, 05:16 PM   #17
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Diane,

How does painting a bike lane figure and line in picture #1 make it safer than picture #3?

Especially when it was painted to force cyclist into the door zone of parked cars!

I prefer picture #3. Yes I would use a potion of the right turn lane in picture #2 until I got to the end of it and could safely move straight from it onto the shoulder ahead of it.
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Old 10-16-06, 05:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
This is a case - like all freeway shoulders that are designated as bike lanes - where even I would ride in the shoulder.

Rural spotty 50-60 mph is significantly different from 60-80 mph busy freeway traffic.
Uh, just for grins, compare and contrast riding on 101 where Diane pictured it verses riding on 1 near Dana Point.
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Old 10-16-06, 06:59 PM   #19
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CH HI, there are bike lane markings on both picture #1 and picture #3. I just didn't take the picture at the place where they were marked on picture #3. There is no parking on the side of the road in picture #3.

Now to address those who normally scoff at bike lanes but seem approving of this one... Here's what I don't understand then. Given the following:
- There is parking
- There is cross traffic
- There are intersections

Why is this bike lane any more legit than the shoulder on the logging trucker road that Bek showed, or on any other road for that matter?

Is it the high rate of speed that legitimizes this bike lane? Well, then, isn't speed relative? If I go half as fast as you do, shouldn't I feel as much a refuge in the bike lane on a 35 mph road as you do on this road?

Is it the heaviness of the traffic? Would things be different for you if traffic were lighter? What if it were more congested and traffic was slowed to a crawl?

Is it simply the words "Highway 101"? This isn't a limited use road. It's not the freeway. There are intersections and cross traffic. Bikes are not prohibited. Indeed it is a bike route. There is no alternative route.

What makes this bike lane legitimate and others not? And if you argue your way out of legitimizing this bike lane, are you willing to come ride this road and ride outside the bike lane?

Last edited by sbhikes; 10-16-06 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 10-17-06, 01:55 AM   #20
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But #3 is no safer than a shoulder without the little funny man painted on it.
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Old 10-17-06, 01:59 AM   #21
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I contend #1 is not safe since it tells cyclist that they must ride in the door zone. Why do some cyclist like being ordered by the state or city to ride in the unsafe door zone?

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Old 10-17-06, 04:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI
I content #1 is not safe since it tells cyclist that they must ride in the door zone. Why do some cyclist like being ordered by the state or city to ride in the unsafe door zone?
R U required by law to ride in the bike lane even when unsafe?
Can u point to the code that says this?
On this road if what I read is correct your choice is to ride in the door zone or in a lane where car traffic is moving at 80+ mph. Is that correct?
When I look at the map link provided and switch to hybrid it calls it the Ventura Freeway and I see no intercections. If I remember right isn't State street the first intersection?

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Old 10-17-06, 06:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by galen_52657
Looks like the interstate. But, if it has at-grade intersections, than I guess it isn't. Nothing I can think of roughly comparable here in MD. If it has traffic lights, in MD the speed limit would be 55 MPH or lower.
MD has been busy designating shoulders as bike routes and we have over 100 miles of similar designs (though I canít recall if we have speed limits greater then 55mph on these roads.) And we donít have adjacent parking to a high speed road but we have tons of right turn lanes that over take the shoulder where we have to ride. MD24 (Bel Air) is probably the most similar as well as is MD50 (Easton.) As well as MD450 (Annapolis) but it is a 50mph road but it has a lot of residential turn offs that overlay the wide shoulder. Whatís interesting on MD450 (and I think itís the only one) we have a sign that says ďBegin right turn yield to bikes.Ē
http://www.marylandroads.com/busines...s/pdf/R4-4.pdf

Because technically MD law requires cyclists going straight to stay out of the right hand turn lane and this sign is required so we can stay off to the side of lot faster traffic.

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Old 10-17-06, 06:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Human Car
MD has been busy designating shoulders as bike routes and we have over 100 miles of similar designs (though I canít recall if we have speed limits greater then 55mph on these roads.) And we donít have adjacent parking to a high speed road but we have tons of right turn lanes that over take the shoulder where we have to ride. MD24 (Bel Air) is probably the most similar as well as is MD50 (Easton.) As well as MD450 (Annapolis) but it is a 50mph road but it has a lot of residential turn offs that overlay the wide shoulder. Whatís interesting on MD450 (and I think itís the only one) we have a sign that says ďBegin right turn yield to bikes.Ē
http://www.marylandroads.com/busines...s/pdf/R4-4.pdf

Because technically MD law requires cyclists going straight to stay out of the right hand turn lane and this sign is required so we can stay off to the side of lot faster traffic.

-=Barry=-
And you trust people to actually read and understand that sign? DE likes to draw bike stencils in shoulders too and even puts arrows telling cyclists to go straight from the right turn lane (and sometimes a sign saying to yield to bikes). I've found it easier to use the traffic lane (which I'm usually in to begin with) instead of worrying about people merging into me from my left or turning into me from my right (off the cross street). I'll take honks over hits
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Old 10-17-06, 06:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redden
R U required by law to ride in the bike lane even when unsafe?
Can u point to the code that says this?
On this road if what I read is correct your choice is to ride in the door zone or in a lane where car traffic is moving at 80+ mph. Is that correct?
When I look at the map link provided and switch to hybrid it calls it the Ventura Freeway and I see no intercections. If I remember right isn't State street the first intersection?
Again, how does the funny little man painted on the road make it safer?

If you get hit outside the bike lane (or even harrassed), the burden of proof will shift to the cyclist to prove they had a legal reason to be out of the bike lane. Reason enough for not having any bike lanes.
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