sam83

Ya, me too. Situations vary, but in general that's why when I see the combination of 1) an oncoming car that even looks like it could turn left and 2) a place for it to turn into, I'm probably not whizzing along like those threat were'nt there.

Platy

For oncoming left turners that seem questionable to me for any reason, I hold out my open palm to them in the traditional traffic-cop gesture for "Stop right there!". As I pass I change the gesture to a friendly wave.

I think the traffic-cop stop gesture wakes up left turners who are driving inattentively. It also clearly signals my intention and what I expect the motorist to do.

JohnBrooking

One night I was going straight past a side street on my right and observed a young driver approaching the intersection from it with the kind of momentum that makes you wonder if they are going to stop at their stop sign. (I did not have one, being on the more major road.) She was also not looking in my direction at all; maybe she had glanced quickly from further away and didn't see any car headlights, although I had my bike headlights on. (I could see inside the car because we were near a streetlight.) I just yelled "Hey, hey, hey, hey...." and saw her turn her head and a surprised look cross her face! She stopped. Defensive driving works!

JohnBrooking

+1. I do this too, and I think it does work. Also good for cars thinking about pulling out in front of you from a side street on the right.

If eye contact is possible, use it too. Even if not, look at the driver's side windshield anyway. If they see you, they'll know that you're intending your gesture for them!

noisebeam

Three comments
1. Be very careful of using hand signals. They could be misinterpeted by turning motorist thinking they are you signalling a turn or waving them thru. Those who do do this probably have a very clear, distinct and forceful way of signalling motorist to not turn which works for them.
2. Shouting... Perhaps works in more traditional urban settings with slower traffic and single lanes. Not a chance of working on 45mph multilane arterials.
3. Don't ever give up your right of way in these situations as a courtesy. Only if needed to prevent a dangerous situation. Do not train motorists that cyclist do this.

Al

chephy

As in any other traffic situation, it all depends. There are techniques to minimize the chances of getting hit. If there are cars going with you through the intersection - just used them as a shield. If there aren't, chances are there aren't that many cars from the other direction either, so it's easy to concentrate on (potential) left-turners and act in such a manner as to prevent a collision should the driver be a boneheaded moron. If it's night and you have a light on your helmet, aiming it at the driver probably helps.

Of course, there are some collisions that you cannot prevent. But being on the lookout increases your chances of making it home alive.

Platy

Yes indeed.

Dr.Deltron

Absolutely! Only my scream is done in a "siren" sound. That makes almost all motorists stop!

And when I'm driving, I assess whether the car turning left in front of me looks likely to be insured. If it does, I hope they turn left, 'cause I'll hit 'em!!! Twice so far! As Harry Callahan might say, "I don't hit anybody I don't mean to."
2 good ways in California to be the "payer" in an accident (collision) A) Rear-end somebody or B) Turn left!

But when cycling, my 25 lb. bike will LOSE against a 3000 lb car, so I do whatever it takes to avoid a collision. And the siren sound has proven to be very useful in those situations.

Helmet Head

genec

True, and I very much agree... however, changing your speed to avoid the situation altogether is not the same as giving up ROW.

Now back to beer:

Bekologist

I sometimes intentionally yield my right of way in this type of situation by moving further left.

noisebeam

I'm stuggling to visualize this with two starting scenarios
1. Left turner has already started turning, you move left to avoid the completion of their turn. You have not given up your ROW, it had already been taken.
2. Left turner has not started, you move left to encourage them to turn, which I can only see working if you move into oncoming lane.

What other scenario have I missed?

Al

Bekologist

...I'm just saying thats how i yield right of way sometimes. sorry you have a hard time visualizing things, Al.

I see a car up ahead preparing for an left turn, I move left, I signal an 'after you' curtsey, the cars move thru the intersection, and there you go.


I also control OTHER intersections by moving further left as well, and the technique of aiming right for the driver as i posted earlier on this thread.

I mentioned it because people like you may not have thought of the technique before, that you can yield right of way by moving further left.

noisebeam

Never said it wouldn't. I just don't understand the specifics of the relative positioning and paths of the two vehicles over time to understand what you mean. I could interpret your statement in a wide variety of ways, none of which sound like predictable to me. Why don't you explain such a scenario with time based position details, thanks.
Al

noisebeam

Ummm... You are giving up your ROW by signalling, not thru lane positioning. I see the lane position more as putting yourself in a position to clear intersection quickest as soon as vehicle has started to turn. I'm glad most cyclists don't do this as I'd hate for motorists to expect this.
Al

Bekologist

actually, al, i sometimes do it without the hand signal. it's very situational, by no means is it a blanket technique that can be applied to general traffic dynamics. I know when and where it is appropriate.

But it prompts positive cager feedback on occasion when I do it so i know it works.


I'm just saying that you can yield right of way by moving further left sometimes.

Helmet Head

I can see how moving further left might be done in concert with yielding, but I don't see how the move itself can communicate yielding.

I suspect there are body language and other factors that actually communicate the yielding. Perhaps you back off on the pedaling a tad, maybe sit up, or feign that you're turning left (and, thus your paths are not in conflict), possibly making a "go ahead" gesture with your head or maybe even just your eyes, etc.. I can see how doing some of those things, as well as adjusting left, could coax an oncoming left-turner to proceed. But maintaining your pace to continue straight across the intersection, looking ahead the whole time, not backing off at all, and adjust left? No, I don't see how that alone could be construed as a yield - to the contrary.

SSP

That scenario is one reason I always wear a headlamp, in addition to my bar mounted headlights. I usually run the headlamp in flashing mode, and will aim directly it at any drivers I think aren't noticing me.

Fortunately, where I live there are very few intersections that permit "unprotected" left turns (i.e., left turns are only permitted on the left arrow, and not permitted when the through traffic has a green signal).

Helmet Head

That's at major intersections.

Most left hook bike-car crashes seem to happen at mid-block left turns into driveways or parking lot entrances where there are no controls whatsoever (and also where the left turn is often not expected by the cyclist).

SSP

That's a good point...for those situations, I depend on lane positioning, "assertive" posture, and eye contact.

And if all else fails, I can yell really loud while braking and quick-turning (Forester recommends the quick right turn manuever, as I recall).

Helmet Head

And, hopefully, looking for confirming signs that there is no way they are turning left, or that they have noticed you.

Bekologist

You don't see it, that's not my problem. It works, and it works often. Why you have problems visualizing techniques different than your experience speaks volumes to your lack of experience and nothing of mine.

Helmet Head

Your inability to explain how or why moving left alone communicates yielding on your part to oncoming left-turners is what speaks volumes about your own lack of understanding of what is going on when you're doing whatever it is that you're trying to describe.

If you understand something, then you can explain it.
If you don't understand it, then you can't explain it.
If you can't explain it, then you don't understand it.
If you can explain it, then you do understand it.

joejack951

I've seen cyclists (mostly kids) move over to the left side of the road when approached from behind to allow same direction traffic to pass without changing lanes. I've also seen plenty of roadies (and kids and cyclists in Philly) switch to the left side of the road to make a left turn further down the road. Is it possible that these motorists think you are going to move to the opposite side of the road to let them turn faster? I don't see what else they could be thinking when a cyclist starts moving left. A simple foot or two left in the lane though certainly would be hard to mistake for someone moving to the left side of the road. I don't get it either.

SingingSabre 

"Hi Pot, I'm Kettle"
"Nice to meet you, Pot!"
"Kettle, you're black!"
"So are you, Pot!"

Get it? The only difference is that Bek has a good idea. He's presenting a target which says "you'll get past me faster" rather than "go faster and you might hit me."

Of course, you should know a few things about moving left in a lane, HH. See, it supposedly makes you more visible to other drivers. If another driver notices you, then you can let them go first so you're guaranteed to not get run down, smooshed, flattened, etc. by them.

Of course, Bek also mentioned that it's not the technique of choice for all chances of left hooks, just a few. Something that someone here doesn't practice.