View Poll Results: Are Left Turn Collisions Unavoidable?
Yes. If you get hit, there was absolutely nothing you could have done to avoid it.
1
1.96%
It’s more of a 50/50 proposition.
12
23.53%
No. You can identify conditions; make adjustments & prepare to take effective actions.
38
74.51%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll
Are Left Turn Collisions Unavoidable?
#51
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Originally Posted by SingingSabre
"Hi Pot, I'm Kettle"
"Nice to meet you, Pot!"
"Kettle, you're black!"
"So are you, Pot!"
Get it?
"Nice to meet you, Pot!"
"Kettle, you're black!"
"So are you, Pot!"
Get it?
The only difference is that Bek has a good idea.
He's presenting a target which says "you'll get past me faster" rather than "go faster and you might hit me."
Of course, you should know a few things about moving left in a lane, HH. See, it supposedly makes you more visible to other drivers.
Of course, you should know a few things about moving left in a lane, HH. See, it supposedly makes you more visible to other drivers.
And what's with the pedantry expressed in phrases like, Of course, you should know a few things about moving left in a lane, HH? A few things like what? "It supposedly makes you more visible to other drivers."? What does that have to do with communicating yielding to the driver?
If another driver notices you, then you can let them go first so you're guaranteed to not get run down, smooshed, flattened, etc. by them.
Of course, Bek also mentioned that it's not the technique of choice for all chances of left hooks, just a few.
Something that someone here doesn't practice.
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Originally Posted by joejack951
I've seen cyclists (mostly kids) move over to the left side of the road when approached from behind to allow same direction traffic to pass without changing lanes. I've also seen plenty of roadies (and kids and cyclists in Philly) switch to the left side of the road to make a left turn further down the road. Is it possible that these motorists think you are going to move to the opposite side of the road to let them turn faster? I don't see what else they could be thinking when a cyclist starts moving left. A simple foot or two left in the lane though certainly would be hard to mistake for someone moving to the left side of the road. I don't get it either.
SingingSabre seems to think he gets it, but his "explanation" suggests otherwise.
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Al, Joejack, and helmet head. excellent groupings, head. nice representatives of bike forum posters that just 'don't get it'.
Last edited by Bekologist; 12-21-06 at 12:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
Al, Joejack, and helmet head. excellent groupings, head. nice representatives of bike forum posters that just 'don't get it'.
Yielding is giving the right-of-way to other traffic. You have to have it before you can yield it. You can't give something that you don't have.
If you're approaching an intersection and are still so far from entering that the left-turner can safely make his left turn, then no matter what you do, you're not yielding, since you don't havethe ROW to begin with, by definition. At most, you're letting him know he already has and has had the right-of-way, but you're not yielding the right-of-way to him - because you have to have it before you can yield it.
In order to yield, you have to have the right-of-way, and then choose to slow or even stop to give it to someone else. There is no way that moving left without slowing down can constitute yielding, no matter what the situation is.
That's traffic 101.
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i guess you fail to understand more nuanced and advanced bicycling technique, head, because I yield right of way by moving left approaching potential left hook situations on a regular basis.
its not all helmet head in a peloton moving 20 miles an hour thru textbook intersections.
so you think there is no way; I do it almost every day.
its not all helmet head in a peloton moving 20 miles an hour thru textbook intersections.
so you think there is no way; I do it almost every day.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
i guess you fail to understand more nuanced and advanced bicycling technique, head, because I yield right of way by moving left approaching potential left hook situations on a regular basis.
its not all helmet head in a peloton moving 20 miles an hour thru textbook intersections.
so you think there is no way; I do it almost every day.
its not all helmet head in a peloton moving 20 miles an hour thru textbook intersections.
so you think there is no way; I do it almost every day.
I've explained why it can't be yielding. You've ignored that.
No one else, not even Sabre, thinks whatever you're doing is actually yielding. But in Bekworld you can call it yielding. But in the real world, that's not what anyone else calls it.
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hilarious. helemt head "explains" how something that I do on a weekly basis just can't be done.
Maybe from helmet heads armchair, pouring over textbook analysis of right of way, it isn't in HIS book of techniques, but it's one of the ways to yield right of way while riding a bike in traffic.
helemt head must never encounter ambiguous right of way situations, which are actually quite common for the transportational bicyclist in urban settings.
Maybe from helmet heads armchair, pouring over textbook analysis of right of way, it isn't in HIS book of techniques, but it's one of the ways to yield right of way while riding a bike in traffic.
helemt head must never encounter ambiguous right of way situations, which are actually quite common for the transportational bicyclist in urban settings.
#59
Senior Member
Originally Posted by sam83
Edit: You are going straight and an oncoming car is turning left.
If a car violates your ROW, what do you think?
If a car violates your ROW, what do you think?
Left hooks and crosses are more difficult, because evasive action requires an escape to outside the turning radius of the vehicle, which, unlike in a right hook or cross, involves crossing into oncoming traffic or hooking across same direction traffic, or an acceleration across the vehicle's path. This makes avoiding left hooks and crosses much more difficult than avoiding right hooks or crosses.
With my incident, I was all set up to hit the car broadside just behind the rear wheelwell. I was probably 10 feet away on a collision course when I let go of the brakes in preparation for the collision, and that restoration of steering control enabled me to swerve (as a reaction, not a planned maneuver) around behind the vehicle. I missed it by probably 2-3 feet.
Best is to avoid the problem all together, but the scary thing is, with my incident, I tracked the car as it made its move across 4 lanes of traffic. I was aware of the developing situation for a full 2 or 3 seconds and still only just barely missed the collision.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
hilarious. helemt head "explains" how something that I do on a weekly basis just can't be done.
Maybe from helmet heads armchair, pouring over textbook analysis of right of way, it isn't in HIS book of techniques, but it's one of the ways to yield right of way while riding a bike in traffic.
helemt head must never encounter ambiguous right of way situations, which are actually quite common for the transportational bicyclist in urban settings.
Maybe from helmet heads armchair, pouring over textbook analysis of right of way, it isn't in HIS book of techniques, but it's one of the ways to yield right of way while riding a bike in traffic.
helemt head must never encounter ambiguous right of way situations, which are actually quite common for the transportational bicyclist in urban settings.