Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-10-06, 10:10 PM   #1
N_C
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
N_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bannation, forever.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Article in the Jan./Feb. issue of Bicycling Magazine about helmets.

First let me note I am not spouting pro-helmet doctrine here. I am not saying everyone should wear a helmet, it is your choice simple as that. I am simply writting a thread on an magazine article & what my personal opinion & beliefes are as a result of the article. I am simply sharing information with you, not saying you have to believe or follow or share the same opinions & beliefs I do. So before you start an all out attack on this thread & the pro/anti helmet debate please understand what it is about first.

The article is in the Handbook section of the magazine & is titled "Skull Savers". It explains what each part of the helmet is & does.

The article also states "2/3rd's of cycling deaths are from traumatic brain injuries, according to the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute, & at least half of those could be prevented with the right noggin protection." Some of these are the authors words by the way.

I truely believe this info. & is part of why I wear a helmet. Again I am not saying you should believe it either or advising you to wear a helmet.

In the explanation of the foam core it states how it works to protect your head in the event of an impact. It states that it "gives your head more stopping time - about 0.06 of a second more then a naked skull. That instant can be the differance between life & death." Again some of this is right from the article.

I believe this info. to be true as well & is a reason I wear a helmet. But let be clear one more time. I am not suggesting or advising anyone to wear a helmet unless you choose to. It is your choice not to or your choice to do so.

I do encourage everyone to read the article though if you have the chance to. But unfortunatly I do not have a link to post in the thread. I looked on Bicycling's web site & could not find the story. So you'll probably have to read form the magazine itself.

Now does everyone understand I am not touting a pro-helmet agenda here, before you get on the war path & yet another heated debate is created over this? This is purely for informational purposes only. Got it?
N_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-06, 10:58 PM   #2
bmclaughlin807
Crankenstein
 
bmclaughlin807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Spokane
Bikes: Novara Randonee (TankerBelle)
Posts: 4,038
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Personally I don't give a crap how you skew the statistics. In the type of accident *I'M* most likely to be involved in, a helmet will do little to nothing to help me. I'll pass.

If someone else feels they can't keep their bike upright, and are likely to fall off and land on their head (The EXACT type of accident that helmets are designed and TESTED to protect against) then fine, wear one.

Oh, and have a nice ride.
__________________
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
bmclaughlin807 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-06, 11:23 PM   #3
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N_C
In the explanation of the foam core it states how it works to protect your head in the event of an impact. It states that it "gives your head more stopping time - about 0.06 of a second more then a naked skull.
I seen the article and was surprised with that .06 of a second figure. It doesn't sound like much does it? I never used to wear a helmet until I started commuting to work semi regularly. Now I like it and the mirror I attached to it. I figure if I do crash, it won't hurt as much. Now I know I also have .06 of a second longer to enjoy my ride before the pain begins!

Last edited by AlmostTrick; 12-10-06 at 11:34 PM.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:23 AM   #4
N_C
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
N_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bannation, forever.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807
Personally I don't give a crap how you skew the statistics. In the type of accident *I'M* most likely to be involved in, a helmet will do little to nothing to help me. I'll pass.

If someone else feels they can't keep their bike upright, and are likely to fall off and land on their head (The EXACT type of accident that helmets are designed and TESTED to protect against) then fine, wear one.

Oh, and have a nice ride.
I have 2 questions for you. What type of accident are you most likely to be involved in? What exact type of accident are helmets desigend & tested to protect against? Regarbding the second question I assume you mean the type of injury that could be caused in an accident.
N_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 04:28 AM   #5
soze
ex-everything.
 
soze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charlestown, MA
Bikes: venerable surly crosscheck
Posts: 602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Helmets won't stop the car from hitting you, but they will stop the pavement from scalping you.
soze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 06:29 AM   #6
Wogster
Senior Member
 
Wogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto (again) Ontario, Canada
Bikes: Norco Bushpilot (out of commission), Raleigh Delta
Posts: 6,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N_C
The article also states "2/3rd's of cycling deaths are from traumatic brain injuries, according to the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute, & at least half of those could be prevented with the right noggin protection." Some of these are the authors words by the way.
Do ya think, that maybe, just maybe, the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute might be remotely biased in their numbers? If 2/3rds of cycling deaths are from traumatic brain injuries, what about the other 1/3rd where
death was not from a traumatic brain injury, and how many of that 2/3rds where there was a traumatic brain innjury, were the riders wearing a helmet at the time. Anyone who has taken a college statistics course can tell you that what is missing from a statistic is often more important then what is there.

I could say more, but I owe, I owe so off to work I go....
Wogster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 09:23 AM   #7
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
and also, how many of those 2/3 of cycling deaths were the results of impacts with motor vehicles and can a bicycle helmet prevent brain damage from a collision with a motor vehicle travelling faster than 14mph?

Did the article report that the BHSI mentions

Quote:
Bicycle helmets are designed as a compromise between impact management, cooling, weight, cost and many other factors...The typical bike crash involves a drop to the pavement...The typical bicycle crash impact occurs at a force level equating to about 1 meter (3 feet) of drop, or a falling speed of 10 MPH...Most of the cases where the helmet's limits are exceeded involve crashes with cars.

Last edited by closetbiker; 12-11-06 at 09:32 AM.
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 09:29 AM   #8
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker
and also, how many of those 2/3 of cycling deaths were the results of impacts with motor vehicles and can a bicycle helmet prevent brain damage from a collision with a motor vehicle travelling faster than 14mph?
Hey, even the coyote opens that tiny umbrella before the boulder lands on his head. It must help... he always comes back for more.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 09:32 AM   #9
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Admittedly a helmet is not going to help if you are creamed by a vehicle moving at high speed and hitting you directly... but that is not the only type of accident out there...

Fender benders are quite common amoung vehicles on the road... and a simple "bump" is enough to send a cyclist flying off their bikes, or even falling off their bike... in the case of these more common collisions, a helmet may indeed help.

But bottom line, it is the cyclists choice... and no law should be made effecting that choice.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 10:00 AM   #10
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A helmet may help in "typical" crash, for sure but that's a long way from saying, "2/3rd's of cycling deaths are from traumatic brain injuries, according to the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute, & at least half of those could be prevented with the right noggin protection."

That's a pretty misleading pairing of information.
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 11:41 AM   #11
supcom
You need a new bike
 
supcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 5,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nothing like yet another helmet troll to start off the bikeforum week...
supcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 11:49 AM   #12
jakub.ner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, Ontario
Bikes: 2 Xootr Swifts, Dahon Curve, Oxford Winter Beater.
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wogsterca
... Anyone who has taken a college statistics course can tell you that what is missing from a statistic is often more important then what is there...
Gospel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wogsterca
I could say more, but I owe, I owe so off to work I go....
jakub.ner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 11:59 AM   #13
jakub.ner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, Ontario
Bikes: 2 Xootr Swifts, Dahon Curve, Oxford Winter Beater.
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
With me it depends but currently I wear a helmet since it's winter and quite icy. I fully agree with all the anti helmet arguments: i.e. the helmet does make me less likely to want to go into a store.

One convincing argument I saw once (some Web site from a guy working at one of the helmet testing labs) is that the helmet is supposed to help in a fall off a bicycle; taking under consideration solely the vertical drop height and gravity. If my front wheel goes in a rut while I'm going 40 km/h, the forward speed shouldn't matter in the helmet's ability unless I hit a bridge pillar: the vertical drop is the same hence the vertical speed at which I hit the ground is the same. The helmet will actually help me skid on the ground. If I happen to wrap my leg around the handle bars and my 40km/h forward speed is translated into angular velocity then I will hit the pavement much much harder: the helmet will not help.

So this is my thinking. Wonder if it's about right. Makes sense to me.
jakub.ner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 12:03 PM   #14
N_C
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
N_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bannation, forever.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by supcom
Nothing like yet another helmet troll to start off the bikeforum week...
You must not like the word helmet or any mention of it in general. So you post a response such as this. Ever hear "if you don't have anything nice to say keep your ****ing mouth shut?!" Well, follow that advice!
N_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 12:15 PM   #15
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N_C
You must not like the word helmet or any mention of it in general. So you post a response such as this. Ever hear "if you don't have anything nice to say keep your ****ing mouth shut?!" Well, follow that advice!
He stated his opinion - deal with it by practicing what you so rudely attempted to preach.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 12:38 PM   #16
N_C
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
N_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bannation, forever.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
He stated his opinion - deal with it by practicing what you so rudely attempted to preach.
Instead of troll he should have said thread. Then I would not have taken such an offense to it & would not have posted anything about it.

If he wants to retract what he posted or change the wording then I'll retract what I posted.

Last edited by N_C; 12-11-06 at 12:49 PM.
N_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 12:53 PM   #17
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:02 PM   #18
N_C
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
N_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bannation, forever.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
Same is said about supcom. He *****ed & cried about it first.
N_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:09 PM   #19
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
He made an observation, you cried (and are still crying) about it. Freakin grow up already. You got anything else to add to your latest helmet troll thread?
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:18 PM   #20
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N_C
I am not saying everyone should wear a helmet, it is your choice simple as that...

...(I'm) not saying you have to believe or follow or share the same opinions & beliefs I do.

...Again I am not saying you should believe it either or advising you to wear a helmet.

...But let be clear one more time. I am not suggesting or advising anyone to wear a helmet unless you choose to. It is your choice not to or your choice to do so.
I think it's pretty clear... no amount of disclaimers can prevent anti helmet sentiment from some at the mere mention of a helmet even possibly helping to prevent (or lessen) an injury. I guess that's what makes it so fun to read!
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:25 PM   #21
cat4ever
Cat WTF
 
Join Date: May 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N_C
You must not like the word helmet or any mention of it in general. So you post a response such as this. Ever hear "if you don't have anything nice to say keep your ****ing mouth shut?!" Well, follow that advice!



Classy
cat4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:32 PM   #22
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
I think it's pretty clear... no amount of disclaimers can prevent anti helmet sentiment from some at the mere mention of a helmet even possibly helping to prevent (or lessen) an injury. I guess that's what makes it so fun to read!
Why even worry about it... there is a sticky thread here on A&S and anyone wanting to know more about helmets can look up that thread. Those that don't like them have made their own personal choice.

Just let it go and walk away.

For the record, I do wear a helmet.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 01:33 PM   #23
N_C
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
N_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bannation, forever.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
He made an observation, you cried (and are still crying) about it. Freakin grow up already. You got anything else to add to your latest helmet troll thread?
Whatever!
N_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 02:50 PM   #24
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
I think it's pretty clear... no amount of disclaimers can prevent anti helmet sentiment from some at the mere mention of a helmet even possibly helping to prevent (or lessen) an injury. I guess that's what makes it so fun to read!
I think it's pretty clear... no amount of disclaimers can hide a dingy nanny's intent to troll the same ole issue for the umpteenth time. There isn't an iota of intent to help anyone with these endless trolls on the same subject, from the same source. It's all about browbeating; screw the alleged "disclaimers," they don't mean poop from the OP.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-06, 02:58 PM   #25
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd actually like to read the article because there's a good chance of misleading information being spread hurting cycling advocacy in the name of trying to make some extra profit by fooling a bunch of gullible suckers to hand over cash for something that can't do what the gullible ones get the impression that it can.

Kinda works hand in hand with a lot of what Bicycling magazine stands for. Selling people something they don't really need.

Last edited by closetbiker; 12-11-06 at 03:26 PM.
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:06 PM.