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  1. #1
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Whoa, holiday season does not make nice drivers...

    Went to Radio Shack yesterday at the nearby shopping center to get some blank DVDs and batteries... was around noon, before the rains hit.

    People were anything but friendly on the road... and in the shopping center parking lot, I felt like a lamb before the lions. Folks were very aggressive... even at >10MPH.

    Now granted, I did get to "park" right in front of the store... so I didn't have problems parking. But drivers were just going nuts looking for parking (right in front of "the" store, no doubt) and they were not very kind to pedestrians crossing the road, or to anybody being unusual... such as riding a bike. (perhaps I should have worn the Santa hat)

    Today, I went to the same shopping center for groceries... and a small rosemary tree. Drove my car. Got flipped off by a woman who apparently did not believe in speed limits, nor turn signals, nor in destination positioning... she tailgated me (I was in the right lane) until the corner, then she attempted to turn around me as I made a right turn, and then flipped me off. (remember, I was in a car)

    Meanwhile, back at the shopping center parking lot, I just missed being run over by two other vehicles as I return to my truck with my cart filled to the brim.

    Drivers are looking one way and driving the other... driving fast and aggressive... IN PARKING LOTS.

    My my... so much for "Holiday Spirit." Ho Ho Ho.

  2. #2
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    these are the same people who get out of their cars and push/punch/trample over each other to be the first one in the store to get like 5% off on that new plasma TV or whatever

    I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is not what Christmas is all about at all

  3. #3
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by o-dog
    these are the same people who get out of their cars and push/punch/trample over each other to be the first one in the store to get like 5% off on that new plasma TV or whatever
    Ain't that the truth, and spend hours standing outside certain super centers to be first in line to be trampled all for the privilege of buying a cheap piece of Chinese crap that won't make it to the New Year.

    I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is not what Christmas is all about at all
    Nope, we only buy presents for the youngsters in our family. The rest get money donated in their name to a list of charities that the family(s) support. They range from Heifer Project to the local soup kitchen.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

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  4. #4
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    I tend to avoid shopping centers and such around Christmas, both on my bike and in my truck - folks are just plain crazy.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  5. #5
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    aren't American values as expressed in our cultural psyche just delightful?

    road rage in parking lots-

    Part of America's uncharted, rudderless but inevitable course of going to hell-in-a-handbasket.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  6. #6
    Grumpy Old Bugga europa's Avatar
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    Does this mean I shouldn't shift to America?
    I mean, our car parks are ... just like yours dammit.

    Yeah. Christmas. Fun and games. Ah well, sitting around with the famlily listening to the women dominate the coversation is not only traditional but it saves me having too think to hard. Wonder if they'd notice if I ducked out on the bike for a bit. Nah, that's like playing drunken roulette.

    Back in the 'good old days', a feature of Christmas day was the streets full of kids on their new bikes. Now there's just car loads of stressed families going somewhere, all the kids are inside with their flamin' electronic games. Somehow, I still struggle to see this as a step forward in human evolution (or is that devolution).

    Richard
    I had a good bike ... so I FIXED it

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    Its absolutely funny to see two people fighting over a parking space, or someone prowling up and down the first two aisles near a store, while if a person can walk 50-100 feet, there are rows of empty spaces.

  8. #8
    Veni, Vidi, Vomiti SteveE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlts22
    Its absolutely funny to see two people fighting over a parking space, or someone prowling up and down the first two aisles near a store, while if a person can walk 50-100 feet, there are rows of empty spaces.
    Yep. You'll see folks just sitting in their car waiting for a place to open up, while you drive past, find a the nearest currently available spot, park, get out of car, and walk into the store while they're just pulling into the parking space.
    "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ...'holy *****...what a ride!'"

  9. #9
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Personally I try to park some distance away. More spaces available, less chance my car getting damaged.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by europa

    Yeah. Christmas. Fun and games. Ah well, sitting around with the famlily listening to the women dominate the coversation is not only traditional but it saves me having too think to hard. Wonder if they'd notice if I ducked out on the bike for a bit. Nah, that's like playing drunken roulette.

    Richard
    Maybe I am turning into a feminist, but, I find that offensive. First, you sound as if having a conversation is bad or annoying. Then you imply that to be traditional, women have to dominate conversation, you then also imply that the conversation of women is not stimulating enough for you to have to use your brain.

    In regards to drivers, I find a quick and polite conversation with the offending person along the topic of how they would feel about going to jail, being responsible for the death of a person, having to pay the deceased medical bills before their life support is turned off, how their family is going to survive while they are locked away and how the family of the dead person must feel. Of course, it helps to have a crowbar in an obvious position while doing this. I have almost been hit by cars numerous times just when walking from where my car is parked to my workplace. People seem to think that now they are in a carpark they aren't obligated to use things such as indicators and driver at a safe speed. Wait, they don't do that on the road anyway. But it is noticably worse in carparks, and around this time of year.
    I want to live.

  11. #11
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnable
    I find a quick and polite conversation with the offending person along the topic of how they would feel about going to jail, being responsible for the death of a person, having to pay the deceased medical bills before their life support is turned off, how their family is going to survive while they are locked away and how the family of the dead person must feel.
    You were doing good until

    Of course, it helps to have a crowbar in an obvious position while doing this.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

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    Sorry, I should have been correct and said pinch bar, they are much more compact and easier to handle.
    I didn't mean have one in your hand. But one say...in the little map pocket in the side of your door. Only for self defence purposes of course. I would never think of actually attacking or threatening someone with one.
    I want to live.

  13. #13
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    aren't American values as expressed in our cultural psyche just delightful?

    road rage in parking lots-

    Part of America's uncharted, rudderless but inevitable course of going to hell-in-a-handbasket.
    Any other sage Holiday Season Gross Generalizations to make about "American Values" and everybody else in the US based on one cyclist's observation in a parking lot and your opinion?

  14. #14
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnable
    Sorry, I should have been correct and said pinch bar, they are much more compact and easier to handle.
    I didn't mean have one in your hand. But one say...in the little map pocket in the side of your door. Only for self defence purposes of course. I would never think of actually attacking or threatening someone with one.
    We refer to them as "persuaders" as in persuading someone to see our point of view and yes I have a similar device handy in my vehicle too. Unfortunately in the good ole USofA some people have escalated this to carrying firearms and will use them with little or no provocation. There have been several recent reports of people being shot over something as ignorant as a stolen parking spot, cut off in traffic, or "they looked at me funny" a very said commentary on the boorish behavior of the American public...not that it was all that great to begin with

    Aaron
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  15. #15
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc
    ....a very said commentary on the boorish behavior of the American public...not that it was all that great to begin with
    Why not move this type of "bicycling advocacy" to the defunct P&R list? Should make a lively discussion when all similar political science/sociology students/thinkers join in.

  16. #16
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    I tend to avoid shopping centers and such around Christmas, both on my bike and in my truck - folks are just plain crazy.
    I do too... at least the ones with the large general retailers in their malls... you know the Sears, Nordstrums, and other large mall type stores.

    The actions I ran into were at the local shopping center that features fast food, home type restaurants, drug stores and grocery. I honestly did not expect the holiday "spirit" to reach so far into the local stores. I mean this is on par with a 7-11 clerk acting like scrooge.

    I guess the condition of the parking lot should have been a clue... with it so full and there being so many frustrated drivers looking for parking.

  17. #17
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Any other sage Holiday Season Gross Generalizations to make about "American Values" and everybody else in the US based on one cyclist's observation in a parking lot and your opinion?
    So rather than simply join in and target one responder... why not tell us what your experiences are out there in the middle of the nation... in the heartland.

    Are folks just happily expressing seasonal love to one another in your neck of the woods or what?

    Is the phenomena of harried, hurried shoppers strictly a large city situation?

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    I do not like driving, walking, cycling, or much of anything else this time of the year. However, January is just around the corner! Thank god.
    I believe the holidays, seasonal affective disorder, the onset of cold weather, and a few more items combine to drive most everyone insane. Personally, I hunker down in my house and wait for it to blow over. At least my commutes have not become more difficult. Well, excepting the sheriff deputy that harassed me for being on a MUP that was closed. I moved my commute entirely to the streets. So far so good.

  19. #19
    Avatar out of order. MarkS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    My my... so much for "Holiday Spirit." Ho Ho Ho.
    This is why I try to do my shopping online

    Some of the responses here suggest that if you just parked a little further out you'd find plenty of parking spaces. That's not how it is here. Heck, the Frye's parking lot will be jam-packed sometimes in the middle of summer, so what hope is there in December?

    Has anyone else noticed that while cars have gotten bigger and bigger, parking lots seem to be designed by people (civil engineers lite?) stuck some 1970s time warp? Hundreds of spots made for compacts ... whatever that is.

    And the new mall design trend is even crazier. Instead of parking surrounding the mall with a safe walk area inside, they're making them with "streets" so even inside the mall you have to do deal with auto traffic.

    In terms of advocacy, I remember there was a CA initiative to mandate that all new facilities have bike parking. I guess this must have failed. Does anyone remember anything about it?
    Cars kill 45,000 Americans every year.
    This is like losing a war every year, except without the parades.

  20. #20
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    So rather than simply join in and target one responder... why not tell us what your experiences are out there in the middle of the nation... in the heartland.

    Are folks just happily expressing seasonal love to one another in your neck of the woods or what?

    Is the phenomena of harried, hurried shoppers strictly a large city situation?
    It's the same old, same old. Some people act like Bozoes; nothing new about that, here or anywhere else. The gross generalization "commentary" rants about various targets of the whiners on the A & S list (i.e. "Americans" are this or that, "cops" are this or that, Cagers" are this or that, all "other" cyclists are this or that, etc.) is just as relevant to reality as the nutcase Letters to the Editor on the local newspaper written by a handful of silly donkeys with a few screws loose.

  21. #21
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    i can make broad, sweeping generalizations if I find them to be true in my experience, I-like-to-bike,

    and, collectively Americans have become MORE impatient and less tolerant. Extrapolated to driving, that can be one of the root causes of people raging in their cars in parking lots.

    Genec saw parking lot rage. I think sociatal factors are to blame.

    Society is more about group process than independant thinking, in my opinon.

    I find it axiomatic that Americans are becomming less tolerant while driving.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  22. #22
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    i can make broad, sweeping generalizations if I find them to be true in my experience, I-like-to-bike,
    You are entitled to make broad, sweeping generalizations even if you don't find them true in your experience. At least you recognize them for what they are.

  23. #23
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I know how to speak platitudes and euphenisms.

    Americans becomming less tolerant while driving. this is a collective truth.

    Maybe not EVERY driver, but looking at the collective, yes.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  24. #24
    N_C
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    The same can hold true for the post holiday shoping season as well. Especially the after Christmas sales on the holiday decorations. Case in point. I witnessed an actual fist fight by 2 women over a christmas train set.

    There was 1 Christmas train set on an end cap shelf at a dept. store. The full price was $40.00, it was on on sale for $ 10.00. 2 women got to the train set at the same time & each put her hand on it at the same time. They started saying they each got there first. Then they offered to pay the other for it. Then a tug of war ensued. When that didn't work the let go of the train set & literally started punching & kicking each other. At this point a guy, who had nothing to with either woman, walks up to the end cap, grabs the train set & quietly walks away, leaving the women to their fight. Once they realized what happened they stopped looking at the shelf with their mouths open. Then start argueing & fighting over who failed to pay attention & let the train be taken by someone else. By this point the police had been called, store security was there breaking up the fight, etc. The whole lasted maybe 3 or 4 min.

    I used to work at this store & just watched the whole thing unfold, one of the funniest things I ever saw.

  25. #25
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    I know how to speak platitudes and euphenisms.

    Americans becomming less tolerant while driving. this is a collective truth.

    Maybe not EVERY driver, but looking at the collective, yes.
    Any other collective truths to share this Holiday season about Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, Irish, or people from "somewhere else"?

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