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Old 12-18-06, 02:28 AM   #1
UmneyDurak
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Scooters in bike lanes?

So I was on a training ride today. I stopped at a red light, it turns green and this scooter zips by me on my right. I clipped in and started to ride, then something got to me. I caught up to the scooter on this slight incline and yelled at him to "Get the F*k off the bike lane." He replied something, but because of the wind and his full motorcycle helmet I had hard time hearing. He accelerated and I backed off. I caught up to him again on a red light, and repeated my polite statement. His response was that it is legal for scooters to be in bike lanes. This got me thinking was he right and I was a jack ass, or was I on the right. My computer max speed registered at 33.5 I am guessing he was going around 30mph up that incline since I caught up to him. Which to me indicates he should have been riding on the road.
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Old 12-18-06, 03:10 AM   #2
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hell no it isn't. Scooters of any caliber require a class m1 or m2 license, and as such are basically under the same guidelines as a motorcycle, or a car for that matter. I'm not sure what the deal is with Mopeds, though. They have...pedals on them...and engines...

That said, I've had to use the edge of lanes to lane split in congested traffic on my motorcycle, but I generally use it for passing only--never to drive in it. Imagine being doored at speeds in excess of 30mph, much less any speds.
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Old 12-18-06, 04:07 AM   #3
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I am not completely sure what the laws are and even if I did, they probably change with regards to location.

It is a bit of a hairy topic, because where would you fit things such as electric bikes, where would you draw the line? I'd probably say that anything you need a license to drive should be in the normal traffic lanes. They are just not predictable enough to be anywhere else. Once while driving in my car there was a scooter driving on the strip beside the road (this road had a strip only a little narrower than a real lane, and the road is two lanes each way). You could tell the scooter was quite gutless, probably about 50cc and was travelling at about 10km/h below the speed limit. Still, he was weaving a bit so I didn't know whether to overtake him or not. I ended up getting as far away from him as possible (into the far lane) to overtake just in case something happened to hurt both of us.
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Old 12-18-06, 05:39 AM   #4
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Electric bikes legal in bike lanes in Texas... but these are quite limited devices. 25 MPH max, no multi-gear transmission. Definitely not scooters.
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Old 12-18-06, 06:05 AM   #5
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A lot of "scooters" are considered mopeds. Here in SC they run a tag that says moped on them so you can tell the difference. I don't know about the bike lane scenario or the laws in CA. But in NC/SC a moped is generally defined as having an engine under 50cc with top speed limited to 25-30mph. You have to be 16 to operate and must wear a motorcycle helmet (at least in NC not sure about SC) I have had Mobylette and Vespa Ciao mopeds in the past, they were the ones with pedals and my Vespa was good for around 40mph...had to be careful where I rode it that fast didn't want a ticket Apparently the pedal requirement got dropped somewhere along the way. I also suspect we are going to be seeing a lot more of them as time goes on.

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Old 12-18-06, 10:30 AM   #6
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Why did you care? If he was going slower than you, pass him on the left and don't worry about it. If he was going faster than you, you don't have much to worry about either. If the lane was just a wide outside lane with no bike lane stripe, would you have cared that he was riding off to the right?
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Old 12-18-06, 10:34 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by joejack951
Why did you care? If he was going slower than you, pass him on the left and don't worry about it. If he was going faster than you, you don't have much to worry about either. If the lane was just a wide outside lane with no bike lane stripe, would you have cared that he was riding off to the right?
Agreed. Pointless turf wars are one of the undesirable side effects of vehicle-type segregation markings.
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Old 12-18-06, 10:38 AM   #8
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I ride a Yamaha Morpheos into work everyday and no, they are not allowed in the bike lane. I have seen two do that here and I yelled at them to get off the lane that it was for bicycles.
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Old 12-18-06, 11:04 AM   #9
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If a scooter was allowed in a bike lane, it would be called a bike.

On a related note, I have been seeing scooters (they are very populat here) locked to bike ring-posts as well and, while I haven't spoken to any scooter owners yet, I know it's not permitted to park a motor vehicle on a sidewalk or use locking rings intended for bicycles, especially when the city has granted them free parking in all standard street parking spaces.
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Old 12-18-06, 11:21 AM   #10
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Who cares? As long as they drive safely and courteously (i.e. not close passing you) how in any way does it affect you?
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Old 12-18-06, 11:32 AM   #11
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steve, your characterization of segregated 'turf wars' is sooo over the top.

fear monger. what a joke. devious in its misleading intent.

Last edited by Bekologist; 12-19-06 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 12-18-06, 11:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
Who cares? As long as they drive safely and courteously (i.e. not close passing you) how in any way does it affect you?
Al
So you wouldn't mind a 400 pound scooter in the bike lane?
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Old 12-18-06, 11:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pletcgm
So you wouldn't mind a 400 pound scooter in the bike lane?
No. Why would I?
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Old 12-18-06, 12:09 PM   #14
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As long as they don't buzz me, I'm cool.

Hmm, I wonder how many watts they pull.
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Old 12-18-06, 12:15 PM   #15
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As long as they don't buzz me, I'm cool.

Hmm, I wonder how many watts they pull.
If my math is correct(subject to correction) about 1500 (746 watts to the Hp and average moped is 2hp) but they aren't as efficient as a bicycle in watts per btu consumed

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Old 12-18-06, 12:31 PM   #16
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When you say a "scooter" do you mean like a Vespa? Or like one of those Razors with a chainsaw engine?
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Old 12-18-06, 01:24 PM   #17
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When you say a "scooter" do you mean like a Vespa? Or like one of those Razors with a chainsaw engine?
It has a 250 cc engine with a timing of 0-55 in 5 seconds. It weighs in at 408 pounds.
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Old 12-18-06, 01:28 PM   #18
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According to the California Vehicle Code, it appears to be legal and in fact required, at least for electric Razor-type scooters: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21229.htm

Here is the definition, which points you to this section. This would not appear to cover an internal-combustion powered scooter (picture a Vespa or a Honda 150cc bike).
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Old 12-18-06, 08:02 PM   #19
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When you say a "scooter" do you mean like a Vespa? Or like one of those Razors with a chainsaw engine?
No something like this:
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Old 12-18-06, 08:04 PM   #20
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Oh, that definitely does not belong in the bike lane.
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Old 12-18-06, 08:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingSabre
As long as they don't buzz me, I'm cool.

Hmm, I wonder how many watts they pull.
The problem he did buz me. Yes the lane is wide enough to ride side by side, but not enough for blowing past someone on the right going 10-15mph faster. In my case at least over 20 since I just started moving when light turned green. Who knows what kind of handling skills he has, I don't want to be knocked over in to traffic by some dumbass on a scooter.
Why was I anoyed? I think it partially because when I ride on the streets I have to deal with the usual crap from cars, and now I have to deal with crap from someone ridiing a freaken scooter in a bike lane. That one lane that "suppose" to be for us cyclists. P.S. Please don't start another pointless VC thread. Partially it is because he passed me, and I see if I could catch him.

Last edited by UmneyDurak; 12-18-06 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 12-18-06, 10:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
and yelled at him to "Get the F*k off the bike lane." .
Even if he was breaking the law, you are 100% wrong. It's people like you who cause people like me to possibly get harmed while riding a bicycle.

Try being a bit more polite next time.

And any 250cc scooter in the United States is considered to be a motorcycle in all 50 states.
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Old 12-19-06, 08:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
Even if he was breaking the law, you are 100% wrong. It's people like you who cause people like me to possibly get harmed while riding a bicycle.

Try being a bit more polite next time.

And any 250cc scooter in the United States is considered to be a motorcycle in all 50 states.
Oh yes you are right, little poor me is the reason people do stupid and violent stuff.
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Old 12-19-06, 09:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
No something like this:
That could fall under the moped regulations depending on the size of motor and top speed...

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Old 12-19-06, 11:13 AM   #25
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Good for you for catching the guy. Next time, you might give him the Team Cinzano treatment.
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