Why do BL's have solid lines?
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Why do BL's have solid lines?
This just occurred to me the other day. Normal car travel lanes only have solid lines lines separating them close to an intersection, indicating that it's too late now to change lines. The rest of the time, they are dashed, indicating that lateral movement may be done with care. Even yellow center lines follow this convention, dashed when safe for passing, solid when not.
So why are bike lanes usually done with solid lines? True, they sometimes become dashed in obvious merge situations, such as approaching a right turn only lane, but why only then? Do cyclists never have to merge to the center to turn left into a side street? Do motorists never have to turn right, through the bike lane, into a driveway or parking lot?
This makes me believe that all bike lanes, all the time, should have a dashed inside line. Perhaps this would be a clearer indication to cyclists and motorists alike that it's merely a suggested travel lane for bikes, but should be treated by both like any other lane, merged into and out of as necessary, with care. Solid lines, on the other hand, seem to imply that bikes should not leave them, cars should not enter them, and in general imply a sense of segregation that I believe is completely false.
What thinkest thou?
So why are bike lanes usually done with solid lines? True, they sometimes become dashed in obvious merge situations, such as approaching a right turn only lane, but why only then? Do cyclists never have to merge to the center to turn left into a side street? Do motorists never have to turn right, through the bike lane, into a driveway or parking lot?
This makes me believe that all bike lanes, all the time, should have a dashed inside line. Perhaps this would be a clearer indication to cyclists and motorists alike that it's merely a suggested travel lane for bikes, but should be treated by both like any other lane, merged into and out of as necessary, with care. Solid lines, on the other hand, seem to imply that bikes should not leave them, cars should not enter them, and in general imply a sense of segregation that I believe is completely false.
What thinkest thou?
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I'm not sure how BL's are laid out in Southern Maine. In CA they are solid, until they approach intersections, when they become broken dashed, whatever.
I would say solid lines indicate to cars that they are to stay out of the bike lane unless they are entering/exiting a driveway. The broken lines at intersection indicate it is OK to for autos cross for a turn, and also alerts the cyclist that the sanctity of the bike lane may become violated by automobiles in this area.
For the record, I will ride in a bike lane if it happens to be the correct lane position for a given situation, but correct lane position is paramount, whether there are bike lanes or not.
I would say solid lines indicate to cars that they are to stay out of the bike lane unless they are entering/exiting a driveway. The broken lines at intersection indicate it is OK to for autos cross for a turn, and also alerts the cyclist that the sanctity of the bike lane may become violated by automobiles in this area.
For the record, I will ride in a bike lane if it happens to be the correct lane position for a given situation, but correct lane position is paramount, whether there are bike lanes or not.
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My own rather cynical view is that it is an attempt to blur the distinction between a bike lane and the shoulder by those who believe that bikes do not belong in the roadway.
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A white line on pavement means to any vehicle that you cannot cross that line. For example, in a left hand turn lane only, the white line means that once you have committed to that lane, you cannot cross it on the right to get into through lanes, and that cars in the through lanes cannot cross it to the left to get in the left hand turn lane.
Exactly the same rule applies for bike lanes.
Exactly the same rule applies for bike lanes.
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I've thought about it too and came to the same idea that the solid-dash lining makes better sense, but its too complicated. If a line must exist I think it should be dashed, never solid, and end 100-200' before any and all intersections.
Al
Al
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Going up the hill to SFU in Burnaby BC (a mountain top campus), there is a right hand switchback that a lot of accordion buses go around. The solid white line that marks the bike lane swells to about 8 inches wide there, and I'm glad of it.
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
This just occurred to me the other day. Normal car travel lanes only have solid lines lines separating them close to an intersection, indicating that it's too late now to change lines. The rest of the time, they are dashed, indicating that lateral movement may be done with care. Even yellow center lines follow this convention, dashed when safe for passing, solid when not.
So why are bike lanes usually done with solid lines? True, they sometimes become dashed in obvious merge situations, such as approaching a right turn only lane, but why only then? Do cyclists never have to merge to the center to turn left into a side street? Do motorists never have to turn right, through the bike lane, into a driveway or parking lot?
This makes me believe that all bike lanes, all the time, should have a dashed inside line. Perhaps this would be a clearer indication to cyclists and motorists alike that it's merely a suggested travel lane for bikes, but should be treated by both like any other lane, merged into and out of as necessary, with care. Solid lines, on the other hand, seem to imply that bikes should not leave them, cars should not enter them, and in general imply a sense of segregation that I believe is completely false.
What thinkest thou?
So why are bike lanes usually done with solid lines? True, they sometimes become dashed in obvious merge situations, such as approaching a right turn only lane, but why only then? Do cyclists never have to merge to the center to turn left into a side street? Do motorists never have to turn right, through the bike lane, into a driveway or parking lot?
This makes me believe that all bike lanes, all the time, should have a dashed inside line. Perhaps this would be a clearer indication to cyclists and motorists alike that it's merely a suggested travel lane for bikes, but should be treated by both like any other lane, merged into and out of as necessary, with care. Solid lines, on the other hand, seem to imply that bikes should not leave them, cars should not enter them, and in general imply a sense of segregation that I believe is completely false.
What thinkest thou?
Possible solution. Either dash with a different pattern or color. The problem here is getting 'universal' acceptence of the same solution.
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
What thinkest thou?
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Originally Posted by eubi
I would say solid lines indicate to cars that they are to stay out of the bike lane unless they are entering/exiting a driveway.
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Originally Posted by San Rensho
A white line on pavement means to any vehicle that you cannot cross that line. ... Exactly the same rule applies for bike lanes
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Originally Posted by Keith99
But there is a real segregation. CARS MAY NOT USE A BIKE LANE AS A TRAVEL LANE That presents a real problem Solid line and bikes think they can not leave the lane and cars think they should NEVER enter the lane (but of course can cross it leading to right hooks). But a normal dashed line just seperates lanes, result cars will think they [b]CAN[/b/ use it as a travel lane.
Of course I know what you mean: cars should not be travelling with their right halves in the bike lane. But that's just common sense. They don't straddle other lane lines, why would they choose to straddle a bike lane line, even a dashed one, unless maybe they were preparing for a right turn, in which case see my reply above to Eubi.
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
When turning right, do you think motorists should merge into the bike lane before beginning the turn, or begin the turn from their lane (to the left of the bike lane) and only go through the bike lane during the turn? It's not even clear to me which is proper, and I've never seen it spelled out in any law. Frankly, I'd rather see them pull over into the bike lane ahead of me than see them turn into it suddenly, since a merge is more gradual, thus giving more reaction time.
https://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS
"D. A person shall not operate, stop, park or leave standing a vehicle in a path or lane designated as a bicycle path or lane by a state or local authority except in the case of emergency or for crossing the path or lane to gain access to a public or private road or driveway."
In other states, such as CA, drivers are required to merge into BL before right turning.
Al
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
You think too much about a problem that exists only in the mind of those looking for reasons to rant about the evil bike lane menace.
Last edited by JohnBrooking; 12-21-06 at 11:42 AM.
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Thanks for the legal references, Al. I'm glad to at least hear that the law does attempt to spell out proper behavior, rather than just leave it ambiguous. Interesting that here in Maine, we have absolutely no statutes in regards to proper bike lane behavior. (I've just finished putting together a page summarizing Maine bike law.)
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
This just occurred to me the other day. Normal car travel lanes only have solid lines lines separating them close to an intersection, indicating that it's too late now to change lines. The rest of the time, they are dashed, indicating that lateral movement may be done with care. Even yellow center lines follow this convention, dashed when safe for passing, solid when not.
In a few places we have the bike lane dashed at intersections, usually in older areas without a proper RTOL (a layout I disapprove of). This usage does not seem to be consistent.
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
Solid lines, on the other hand, seem to imply that bikes should not leave them, cars should not enter them, and in general imply a sense of segregation that I believe is completely false.
Perhaps a more accurate striping for bike lanes would be to have a solid line on the outside, indicating to motorists "do not cross," while an inside dashed line would indicate to cyclists, "ok to merge."
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
This would also follow the pattern pertaining to High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes on the freeway. They are solid, with dashed portions indicating "exits." Here in Georgia, it's illegal to enter or leave an HOV lane until the lines become dashed. So the solid line indicates "do not cross."
Perhaps a more accurate striping for bike lanes would be to have a solid line on the outside, indicating to motorists "do not cross," while an inside dashed line would indicate to cyclists, "ok to merge."
Perhaps a more accurate striping for bike lanes would be to have a solid line on the outside, indicating to motorists "do not cross," while an inside dashed line would indicate to cyclists, "ok to merge."
Your idea for 'accurate' striping is exactly what John suggested.
Al
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
In AZ, HOV lanes are separated with a solid line, which can be crossed at any time
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
This would also follow the pattern pertaining to High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes on the freeway. They are solid, with dashed portions indicating "exits." Here in Georgia, it's illegal to enter or leave an HOV lane until the lines become dashed. So the solid line indicates "do not cross."
Perhaps a more accurate striping for bike lanes would be to have a solid line on the outside, indicating to motorists "do not cross," while an inside dashed line would indicate to cyclists, "ok to merge."
Perhaps a more accurate striping for bike lanes would be to have a solid line on the outside, indicating to motorists "do not cross," while an inside dashed line would indicate to cyclists, "ok to merge."
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Holy cow, are you sure? In neighboring CA, it's a hefty fine to cross the HOV solid stripe at any time. You have to wait until you reach a designated enter/exit area (stripe is dashed).
It would be impossible to use an HOV lane if one could not cross the solid line, there would be no way to get into it. Whe HOV lane use restriction are off (non rush hour) it is used by all vehicles just like any other lane.
The only law I can find regarding HOV lanes is this:
https://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS
Attached is a photo I took of typical HOV lane implementation. If you note there is a major freeway intersection, the entering ramp on the left side of the road has no way to get into the HOV lane as there is no break in the solid white line (which if there was would be out of picture, but I know this area very well and there is no break behind me from where the pic is taken)
Al
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
Your idea for 'accurate' striping is exactly what John suggested.
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Al, does that sign say "Superstition Freeway"? WTH? (This interface needs a "confused" smiley!)
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
Al, does that sign say "Superstition Freeway"? WTH? (This interface needs a "confused" smiley!)
Al
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Al, in your picture, is there an area up ahead where the HOV stripe temporarily becomes dashed within the next mile or two?
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
This makes me believe that all bike lanes, all the time, should have a dashed inside line. Perhaps this would be a clearer indication to cyclists and motorists alike that it's merely a suggested travel lane for bikes, but should be treated by both like any other lane, merged into and out of as necessary, with care. Solid lines, on the other hand, seem to imply that bikes should not leave them, cars should not enter them, and in general imply a sense of segregation that I believe is completely false.