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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Which do you prefer? (See OP)
I prefer 4 lanes + bike lanes 47 72.31%
I prefer 6 lanes; no bike lanes 9 13.85%
Other/no preference/see post 9 13.85%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-01-07, 06:23 PM   #1
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Which do you prefer: 4 lanes + BLs or 6 lanes?

Which do you prefer? A 4 lane highway with bike lanes, or a 6 lane highway with narrow outside lanes?

If it depends, go by this specific example:
Bike lane to be removed from Highway
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Old 02-01-07, 06:33 PM   #2
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Of course, everyone who answers "I prefer 4 lanes + bike lanes" is wrong.
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Old 02-01-07, 06:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingSabre
Of course, everyone who answers "I prefer 4 lanes + bike lanes" is wrong.
No one can be wrong about a preference, SingingSabre.
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Old 02-01-07, 06:49 PM   #4
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I prefer 4 lane highways with super wide lanes, super wide shoulders, and plenty of grass on both sides. If there's a 20' grass median in the middle, even better.

Plenty of those in Oklahoma I'll take my lane when I feel safe, and when I start to feel the bad juju, I retreat to my massive shoulder.
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Old 02-01-07, 07:03 PM   #5
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Here's the rub. Am I a cyclist or a driver? I prefer different things in each respective vehicle.

I've seen plenty of evidence that enlarging roads doesn't have the effect of decreasing car density like one would think, but rather, it simply attracts more cars. Opening the road up might make side streets more pleasant, or it might not, depending on how many people currently limit their car trips because of the traffic, but the level of congestion will likely stay constant after a year or two period of fluctuation.

I don't see anything but bad in making a current 4 lane + bike lane into a 6 laned NOL road.
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Old 02-01-07, 07:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
I don't see anything but bad in making a current 4 lane + bike lane into a 6 laned NOL road.
What if that outer lane had sharrows or a bicycle icon or some such regular reminder that cyclist are to use its full width?

What if that road had an intersection every 200' or so, a major one every 1/4mi?

What if there was a 3mi stretch with no intersection, but a sign at the begining of the stretch said 'pass cyclist using adjacent lane' or some such language?

What if cyclists regularly used this road and it was commonplace to encounter them using the full lane?

Al
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Old 02-01-07, 08:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisebeam
What if...?

What if ...?

What if...?

What if cyclists regularly used this road and it was commonplace to encounter them using the full lane?
It might look like this even on two lane roads. I think I would like that; how 'bout you?
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Old 02-01-07, 09:05 PM   #8
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I think 6 lane roads are evil no matter what you drive. It's a sign of some sort of failure.
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Old 02-01-07, 09:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It might look like this even on two lane roads. I think I would like that; how 'bout you?
How would a cyclist get anywhere with all those bicyclists in the way?
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Old 02-01-07, 09:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
How would a cyclist get anywhere with all those bicyclists in the way?
Same way all those bicyclists do I would assume.
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Old 02-01-07, 10:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It might look like this even on two lane roads. I think I would like that; how 'bout you?
Oh, I just might, ILTB.
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Old 02-01-07, 10:40 PM   #12
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I had a 'funny' post about condeming the communist highway builders at the expense of the free market. Seriously though - if there are six lanes worth of traffic there is money to be made in a train... Stop the communists from ramming roads down our throats!
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Old 02-01-07, 10:40 PM   #13
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oops - the 'funny' post made it through, oh well...
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Old 02-01-07, 11:13 PM   #14
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i guess to helmet head, cyclist and driver are interchangable, he certainly confuses his RV for a bike on occasion.

really helmet, do you really think riders will prefer highway speed roads with nothing but narrow lanes? You really are pretty out of touch with real time riding. chest beating from the armchair, sure. You're out of touch with reality, buddy.
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Old 02-01-07, 11:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
i guess to helmet head, cyclist and driver are interchangable, he certainly confuses his RV for a bike on occasion.

really helmet, do you really think riders will prefer highway speed roads with nothing but narrow lanes?
Sure, but the enlightened ones still comprise only a small percentage. But the numbers are growing...
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Old 02-01-07, 11:25 PM   #16
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hahaha. in your imagination, i guess. not compared to total ridership. your little 'dream' is a fade in the wash.
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Old 02-01-07, 11:40 PM   #17
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If where I ride they took a 4 lane + BL road and turned it into a 6 lane no BL road first of all, there would be such an outcry from the bicycle advocates and the sustainable transportation people that this would never happen. But if it did, I certainly would NOT ride a bike there. I'd find a secret shortcut, and if none existed I would give it up. In fact, I would move away.

No thank you. Call me what you wish. But I'd rather fire up my still, play my fiddle on the porch and eat another bowl of possum stew.
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Old 02-02-07, 03:57 AM   #18
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A benefit of not having the bike lane on roads with multiple same direction lanes, particularly if narrow lanes, is it gives the cyclist the entire width of the right most lane to ride in, giving motor vehicles the other same direction lane(s) to pass. A wider lane gives the cyclist more options as to road position. A bike lane as wide as a motor vehicle lane is extremely rare.

Multiple, narrow, same direction lanes are the best facility for cyclist safety. Bike lanes tend to gather debris and lead to closer, and higher speed, passing. As if the painted line is some kind of unbreachable wall.
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Old 02-02-07, 05:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
How would a cyclist get anywhere with all those bicyclists in the way?
You mean a Real ÜberCyclist like the kind who would post such a question about bicyclists "in the way"? I don't worry about the "needs" of such characters for exclusivity.
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Old 02-02-07, 06:02 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Sure, but the enlightened ones still comprise only a small percentage. But the numbers are growing...
The shame and pity is that this self described "enlightened" poster is actually serious that his views on bicycling advocacy/bicycling safety are "enlightened".
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Old 02-02-07, 08:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It might look like this even on two lane roads. I think I would like that; how 'bout you?
Are these dedicated bike roads or just regular streets empty of cars?

The width and appearance are similar to what I might call "bike hiways," and it is similar to a short stretch of such a "bike hiway" here in San Diego.

Although frankly riding along in that country scene just looks quite peaceful.

What is the story there ILTB?
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Old 02-02-07, 09:13 AM   #22
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A benefit of not having the bike lane on roads with multiple same direction lanes, particularly if narrow lanes, is it gives the cyclist the entire width of the right most lane to ride in...
Until some jack donkey decides to teach him a lesson and drive him into the curb, or until some little old lady driving her original 1965 Cadillac with her poof of white hair barely visible over the steering wheel plows into him, or until the town votes to ban the cyclists from this road because they are impeding traffic, or until...

I much prefer a city that plans alternative transportation into the system than one that leaves it to fend for itself.
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Old 02-02-07, 09:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Sure, but the enlightened ones still comprise only a small percentage. But the numbers are growing...
I didn't exactly choose to be Jewish, it was just how I was raised. It made a lot more sense to me than the other religions did, but as long as we all got along, it didn't matter what religion we were. When I was a kid, many, many times people would harrass me on the bus because I was Jewish. They said that I had killed Jesus, that I was going to Hell, that G-d didn't like me, I had killed his only son, etc. Basically, they harassed me because I was of a different mindset than they were.

What can I say? It worked for me. I didn't hurt anyone, I didn't want to. I existed and didn't have any problems.

Perhaps you can see my analogy coming already, perhaps not. Either way, here it goes.

Don't put "ineffective cyclists" down simply because we like our facilities, because we don't want to ride outside the lane when we have a perfectly good lane to ride in, because we don't think like you. Don't be like the immature kids on my bus acting like they were bigger than me while hiding behind their parent's beliefs. It doesn't make you a bigger, more intelligent man who's ahead of the curve and thinks better than other people; it just irritates the snot out of many, many people on this board.

This forum does not need a jihad between VC and non VC. We all ride, that should be enough. Occasional debate is good, but turning a large number of threads into "debates" when it's really just VC proselytizing in remarkably inappropiate. Just like proselytizing on the school bus, it's out of place, out of line, and wholly ineffective.
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Old 02-02-07, 09:22 AM   #24
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I'll take 4 lanes with a WOL or bike lane over 6 lanes and a NOL any day, because the 6 lane monstrosity will inevitably become NO BIKES ALLOWED.
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Old 02-02-07, 09:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
until the town votes to ban the cyclists from this road because they are impeding traffic, or until...
FYI, it's legally impossible to impede traffic on a roadway with more than one same direction lane.
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