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  1. #1
    N_C
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    Taking a more agressive & pro-active approach.

    I'm inspired now. Thanks the the recent Iowa Bicycle Summit that is. I am tired of the way to slow progress being made regarding bicycle facilties. Not to say nothing is being done, there is.

    First here is what is being done:

    1. The Parks & Rec. Director has a file on Complete Streets info.
    2. Funding for Safe Routes to School has been applied for for the new Unity Elementary School.
    3. The bridge project is underway, the funding for it should be completed in the next month or so.

    Here is what needs to be done & what I will push hard to get done.

    1. Adopt a Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. The info. is doing no one any good sitting in a file somewhere. I'm going to approach the MPO, the city. gov. & parks & rec. dept. about this all at the same time.
    2. Find out what the funding, if granted for the Safe Routes to School, is going to be used for for Unity Elementary & advocate for all of the schools to be included & funded in the future. I'm also going to approach the private schools about this as well. The funding can be used for both public & private schools.
    3. Push for Riverside Blvd to be put on a road diet. See this thread for details on that: Time for change.

    I am going to do this with or with out the help & support of the Siouxland Trails Foundation. It will be easier with. I will be very aggressive but diplomatic with this as well. I know that sounds contradictory but I think I can pull it off.

    Tell me what you think about these ideas. Any questions or comments are welcome.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    The squeeky wheel gets the grease. Good luck.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  3. #3
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    That's taking on a lot. We've got individuals whose full-time focus is on safe routes to school only. Good luck and I hope you get things accomplished.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  4. #4
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go giving out your blog address to the people you are trying to lobby/influence.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  5. #5
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    I wouldn't go giving out your blog address to the people you are trying to lobby/influence.

  6. #6
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    That's taking on a lot. We've got individuals whose full-time focus is on safe routes to school only. Good luck and I hope you get things accomplished.
    Maybe. Thankfully I have enough time to deal with these things. I don't have any kids, so no activities to deal with there. I am involved with a lot of other things but still have time to take on & advocate for these challenges & changes.

  7. #7
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    Start collecting data on Unity Elementary School traffic, so if funding is approved, you will have before and after info to support doing this for other schools (or maybe you will know that the money spent was wasted).

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I'm inspired now. Thanks the the recent Iowa Bicycle Summit that is. I am tired of the way to slow progress being made regarding bicycle facilties. Not to say nothing is being done, there is.

    First here is what is being done:

    1. The Parks & Rec. Director has a file on Complete Streets info.
    2. Funding for Safe Routes to School has been applied for for the new Unity Elementary School.
    3. The bridge project is underway, the funding for it should be completed in the next month or so.

    Here is what needs to be done & what I will push hard to get done.

    1. Adopt a Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. The info. is doing no one any good sitting in a file somewhere. I'm going to approach the MPO, the city. gov. & parks & rec. dept. about this all at the same time.
    2. Find out what the funding, if granted for the Safe Routes to School, is going to be used for for Unity Elementary & advocate for all of the schools to be included & funded in the future. I'm also going to approach the private schools about this as well. The funding can be used for both public & private schools.
    3. Push for Riverside Blvd to be put on a road diet. See this thread for details on that: Time for change.

    I am going to do this with or with out the help & support of the Siouxland Trails Foundation. It will be easier with. I will be very aggressive but diplomatic with this as well. I know that sounds contradictory but I think I can pull it off.

    Tell me what you think about these ideas. Any questions or comments are welcome.
    What is the problem that you're trying to solve, and how will these efforts solve this problem?

  9. #9
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    What is the problem that you're trying to solve, and how will these efforts solve this problem?
    The first problem is no Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. A Complete Streets Plicy will ensure & require that when a roadway project is undertaken, whether new construction or re-construction bicycle facilities, what ever may be required for such, will HAVE to be taken into consideration & be a part of the project.

    Second, continue with the Safe Routes To School. Make sure it is not limited to just one school & include the private schools. This is not necessarily a problem. But Sioux City officials have a bad habit of only doing something for one area & not looking at or including the whole picture. In this case that would be all of the public schools. So this could become a problem.

    Finally, R'side Blvd being a road diet, will, I think, make things a lot safer & easier for all roadway users, but especially cyclists. If it works with R'side then the efforts, I hope, will be transfered to Hamilton Blsd & possibly Floyd Blvd, both of which are or have sections that are 4-lanes undivided.

  10. #10
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    The first problem is no Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. A Complete Streets Plicy will ensure & require that when a roadway project is undertaken, whether new construction or re-construction bicycle facilities, what ever may be required for such, will HAVE to be taken into consideration & be a part of the project.
    What is the problem with projects where bicycle facilities are not taken into consideration & are not part of the project? (I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm trying to understand what you perceive the problem to be)

  11. #11
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    What is the problem with projects where bicycle facilities are not taken into consideration & are not part of the project? (I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm trying to understand what you perceive the problem to be)
    The problem is they are currently not taken into consideration.

    IMO there should not be a policy in place to require it, bike facilties should be taken into consideration with out a policy. But as they are not a policy needs to be adopted to "force their hand".

    As much as this should not have to happen it is the sad truth of it. If bike facilties were taken into consideration things would be a lot differant on the roadways in this community.

  12. #12
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    The problem is they are currently not taken into consideration.

    IMO there should not be a policy in place to require it, bike facilties should be taken into consideration with out a policy. But as they are not a policy needs to be adopted to "force their hand".

    As much as this should not have to happen it is the sad truth of it. If bike facilties were taken into consideration things would be a lot differant on the roadways in this community.
    I understand that bicycling facilities are currently often (if not always) not taken into consideration for new roadway projects.

    I'm asking WHY is it a problem that bicycling facilities are not taken into consideration?

    You say things would be a lot different on the roadways in this community if they were taken into consideration.
    HOW would they be different? HOW would that be better over what you have now?

    What problem(s) would get solved, and who currently has these problems, and how would these problems get solved?

    (I'm asking you these questions to force you to answer them, an important process to go through if you want to have a convincing position)

    Edit: Also, and by the way, when I went through a similar process for my own community, I came up empty. I couldn't come up with any strong answers to any of these questions, so I stopped advocating for this kind of stuff. I don't see the point. But maybe when you go through the process you will uncover something compelling.

  13. #13
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    I understand that bicycling facilities are currently often (if not always) not taken into consideration for new roadway projects.

    I'm asking WHY is it a problem that bicycling facilities are not taken into consideration?

    You say things would be a lot different on the roadways in this community if they were taken into consideration.
    HOW would they be different? HOW would that be better over what you have now?

    What problem(s) would get solved, and who currently has these problems, and how would these problems get solved?

    (I'm asking you these questions to force you to answer them, an important process to go through if you want to have a convincing position)

    Edit: Also, and by the way, when I went through a similar process for my own community, I came up empty. I couldn't come up with any strong answers to any of these questions, so I stopped advocating for this kind of stuff. I don't see the point. But maybe when you go through the process you will uncover something compelling.
    The problems include but are not limited to, & I'm not going to list all of them:

    1. Overall roadway conditions. From poor to down right horrible. Sioux City, being a agricultural hub, there is a lot of semi-truck traffic. This tears up some of the roadways. Others are just simply neglected.
    2. Speed limits at which motorists actually drive. There needs to be more traffic calming in certain areas.
    3. Roadway width, lack of a BL, signage advising motorists to share the road, or lack of a wide enough roadway with no BL to safely share the roadway.

    One other thing. The city officials are aware of these issues. They just like to put their heads in the sand when it comes to them. They'd rather spend too much time deciding on whether or not to adopt a discrimination policy for the gay community. Not that that is not important, it is. But they spend too much time on issues like that & not enough on the more immediate in your face, need to be dealt with immeadatley issues. Part of the problem is the roadways are controlled by the public works division. Which controls the Parks & Rec. Dept. as well as the water & sewer depts. In other communities the roadway division & parks are rec. are their own depts.

  14. #14
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    The problems include but are not limited to, & I'm not going to list all of them:

    1. Overall roadway conditions. From poor to down right horrible. Sioux City, being a agricultural hub, there is a lot of semi-truck traffic. This tears up some of the roadways. Others are just simply neglected.
    2. Speed limits at which motorists actually drive. There needs to be more traffic calming in certain areas.
    3. Roadway width, lack of a BL, signage advising motorists to share the road, or lack of a wide enough roadway with no BL to safely share the roadway.

    One other thing. The city officials are aware of these issues. They just like to put their heads in the sand when it comes to them. They'd rather spend too much time deciding on whether or not to adopt a discrimination policy for the gay community. Not that that is not important, it is. But they spend too much time on issues like that & not enough on the more immediate in your face, need to be dealt with immeadatley issues. Part of the problem is the roadways are controlled by the public works division. Which controls the Parks & Rec. Dept. as well as the water & sewer depts. In other communities the roadway division & parks are rec. are their own depts.
    We're getting closer, but we're still not quite identifying the problem(s) that you want to solve. Let's use your #1 as an example.

    The problem you're trying to solve is poor roadway conditions. Presumably, the poor road conditions are potential hazards, that can lead to damage, injury and even death. Also, rough road conditions are arguably unpleasant to cycle on, and, so, are likely to discourage cycling. Those are the problems (related to your #1) that you seek solutions for. That's what I'm trying to get you to identify.

    What about #2 and #3?

  15. #15
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    We're getting closer, but we're still not quite identifying the problem(s) that you want to solve. Let's use your #1 as an example.

    The problem you're trying to solve is poor roadway conditions. Presumably, the poor road conditions are potential hazards, that can lead to damage, injury and even death. Also, rough road conditions are arguably unpleasant to cycle on, and, so, are likely to discourage cycling. Those are the problems (related to your #1) that you seek solutions for. That's what I'm trying to get you to identify.

    What about #2 and #3?
    I don't know what you're getting at here. Yeah poor road conditions are a hazard. Does this discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the speed motorists drive discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the lack of facilities do the same? Again I do not know. The answer could be yes these thigs do discourage cycling. If it does then correcting these things will encourage cycling. If these things do not discourage cycling just make it difficult then correcting them will simply make cycling better. I do not have the time nor the patience to conduct a study as to whether or not these things do discourage cycling.

    I see these problems as a cyclist because they directly affect me when I ride & others I ride with. I will stop short of saying I am working to improve these things for my benefit & the benefit of other existing cyclists in my community. I hope it has a greater impact then that. I hope it encourages more people who are not cyclists to get out & ride & become cyclists. If it does not, ok at least things improved for the existing cyclists.

  16. #16
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    I wish you luck on this. Sounds like good work. Try to get as many people as possible to help. many voices are better than one and more people equal more skill sets.

    I also agree with HH, have a clear problem. You will find this will help get people behind you.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  17. #17
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    I don't know what you're getting at here. Yeah poor road conditions are a hazard.
    Why are poor road conditions a hazard? What might happen due to poor road conditions that wouldn't happen if the road conditions were not poor? Is it bad? How bad? How likely is it to happen? Know the problem you're trying to solve. Be able to describe the problem you are trying to solve.

    Does this discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the speed motorists drive discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the lack of facilities do the same? Again I do not know. The answer could be yes these thigs do discourage cycling. If it does then correcting these things will encourage cycling. If these things do not discourage cycling just make it difficult then correcting them will simply make cycling better. I do not have the time nor the patience to conduct a study as to whether or not these things do discourage cycling.
    That's fine, but then you cannot have a compelling argument advocating for these changes based on these reasons. So, then, what are the reasons that you can use as a basis? What I'm looking for is: X is a problem. X is a problem because of a, b, c. X can be solved by doing Z. Doing Z will solve X because blah, blah, blah.

    I see these problems as a cyclist because they directly affect me when I ride & others I ride with. I will stop short of saying I am working to improve these things for my benefit & the benefit of other existing cyclists in my community. I hope it has a greater impact then that. I hope it encourages more people who are not cyclists to get out & ride & become cyclists. If it does not, ok at least things improved for the existing cyclists.
    I am trying to get you to describe succinctly and precisely the problem(s) you are trying to solve.
    If you think you've already done that, please copy/paste the relevant words from this thread into your reply to this post.

    If not, please let me know what they are.
    Last edited by Helmet Head; 02-06-07 at 06:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
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    I'm getting some popcorn. It was just a matter of time. HH vs N_C - just when you thought it was safe to go back into A&S.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  19. #19
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    yeah, all we need now is for Sarge to return

  20. #20
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    I'm getting some popcorn. It was just a matter of time. HH vs N_C - just when you thought it was safe to go back into A&S.
    Hey this is classic A&S. I still have some cheese doodles left over after the Super Bowl. Godzilla vs. Megalon have got nothing on this duo for entertainment value.

    BTW Good Buddy; Your avatar has become veddy, veddy interesting! Tee Hee.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    BTW Good Buddy; Your avatar has become veddy, veddy interesting! Tee Hee.

    Yeah, wassup with the new avatar? Trying to soften your image by holding a puppy?


    -D

  22. #22
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Hey this is classic A&S. I still have some cheese doodles left over after the Super Bowl. Godzilla vs. Megalon have got nothing on this duo for entertainment value.

    BTW Good Buddy; Your avatar has become veddy, veddy interesting! Tee Hee.
    Butt Buddy! How ya doin man? Which one of us is the 'reacher' and the 'reachee' today?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  23. #23
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derath
    Yeah, wassup with the new avatar? Trying to soften your image by holding a puppy?
    That's Thor, Dawg of Thunder. I figured I needed a bodyguard.

    Falkon has already done an interesting swapperoo with it for his avatar that made me snort milk all over my keyboard.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  24. #24
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Butt Buddy! How ya doin man? Which one of us is the 'reacher' and the 'reachee' today?
    Yikes! Don't open that can of worms! One of the posters on A & S isn't too stable and might get ideas.

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    Waiting for the "Taking a more agressive & pro-active approach II" thread to start.

    -D

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