Nearly Fatal Bicycle-Automobile Accident in Portland
02-08-07, 04:42 PM
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Nearly Fatal Bicycle-Automobile Accident in Portland
Driver and Cyclist Both DUI
Drunk driver.
Drunk cyclist, at night, cyclist wearing dark clothing, no lights, and no helmet.
Intersection accident, cyclist was on a street with a stop sign; no stop sign for the car.
Darwin awards time.
Drunk driver.
Drunk cyclist, at night, cyclist wearing dark clothing, no lights, and no helmet.
Intersection accident, cyclist was on a street with a stop sign; no stop sign for the car.
Darwin awards time.
Last edited by Blue Order; 02-08-07 at 04:52 PM.
02-08-07, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Portland? I'm shocked! 
02-08-07, 04:56 PM
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"According to police, Slawta was riding her bike west on northeast Skidmore Street shortly after midnight when she failed to stop at a stop sign at the intersection with northeast 15th Avenue. Her bike then collided with the side of Grover's Ford Ranger pickup."
She t-boned the dude's truck after running a stop sign. Is that an automatic "at fault" credit? I hope she recovers and all, but seriously... tanked, no lights, no brain bucket, ran a stop sign. I hope she gets some smarts out of all this mess.
She t-boned the dude's truck after running a stop sign. Is that an automatic "at fault" credit? I hope she recovers and all, but seriously... tanked, no lights, no brain bucket, ran a stop sign. I hope she gets some smarts out of all this mess.
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02-08-07, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
"According to police, Slawta was riding her bike west on northeast Skidmore Street shortly after midnight when she failed to stop at a stop sign at the intersection with northeast 15th Avenue. Her bike then collided with the side of Grover's Ford Ranger pickup."
She t-boned the dude's truck after running a stop sign. Is that an automatic "at fault" credit? I hope she recovers and all, but seriously... tanked, no lights, no brain bucket, ran a stop sign. I hope she gets some smarts out of all this mess.
She t-boned the dude's truck after running a stop sign. Is that an automatic "at fault" credit? I hope she recovers and all, but seriously... tanked, no lights, no brain bucket, ran a stop sign. I hope she gets some smarts out of all this mess.
02-08-07, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
Maybe you can somehow twist the FACTS to make it seem like bike lanes are at fault...
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02-08-07, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Big_knob
She ran into him! She should be charged for running stop sign & DUI!
.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
02-08-07, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
Originally Posted by Blue Order
Maybe you can somehow twist the FACTS to make it seem like bike lanes are at fault...
The plethora of bike lanes and other bicycling facilities inevitably casts a cloud of carelessness in the minds of Portland cyclists, leading to mindless and lackadaisical cyclist behavior in general, which infects them even on roads without facilities. Running stop signs in front of cross traffic is par for the course for Portland cyclists disabled by bike lane mentality and associated expectations, like invincibility while cycling.
How's that?
Last edited by Helmet Head; 02-08-07 at 06:05 PM.
02-08-07, 06:01 PM
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yada yada
Drunks are typically careless. In any state... of the union or of the mind.
"Cloud of carelessness"... As Dave Barry would say: That would make an excellent name for a rock band.
Drunks are typically careless. In any state... of the union or of the mind.
"Cloud of carelessness"... As Dave Barry would say: That would make an excellent name for a rock band.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
02-08-07, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
yada yada
Drunks are typically careless. In any state... of the union or of the mind.
"Cloud of carelessness"... As Dave Barry would say: That would make an excellent name for a rock band.
Drunks are typically careless. In any state... of the union or of the mind.
"Cloud of carelessness"... As Dave Barry would say: That would make an excellent name for a rock band.
Lest you think I'm kidding... the other day someone asked me what I thought my biggest threat was while cycling. Without hesitation, I said me. How many Portland cyclists think of themselves as their biggest threat?
02-08-07, 06:24 PM
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All right, jokes aside, you'll have to back your previous statement up. No third order logic this time. No re-assessment of half understood data. Direct observation.
Otherwise I get to dismiss the statement altogether, as all it is is hot air and paper.
My approach to cycling is different than yours. I am not my biggest threat. However, I am my best defense. FWIW, nothing about accepting personal responsibility contradicts bicycle facilities. You are the only one here who believes that the only alternative to your brand of Vehicular Cycling is blind reliance on bike lanes. You have internalized the either-or fallacy you propogate to the point where you are as bad or worse than those who self describe themselves as "paint 'n path" advocates.
Otherwise I get to dismiss the statement altogether, as all it is is hot air and paper.
My approach to cycling is different than yours. I am not my biggest threat. However, I am my best defense. FWIW, nothing about accepting personal responsibility contradicts bicycle facilities. You are the only one here who believes that the only alternative to your brand of Vehicular Cycling is blind reliance on bike lanes. You have internalized the either-or fallacy you propogate to the point where you are as bad or worse than those who self describe themselves as "paint 'n path" advocates.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
02-08-07, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
But one is more likely to be willing to drink and bike when he underestimates his or her need to be vigilant while cycling. The "cloud of carelessness" that infects the minds of Portland cyclists makes them more likely to make this kind of error.
Lest you think I'm kidding... the other day someone asked me what I thought my biggest threat was while cycling. Without hesitation, I said me. How many Portland cyclists think of themselves as their biggest threat?
Lest you think I'm kidding... the other day someone asked me what I thought my biggest threat was while cycling. Without hesitation, I said me. How many Portland cyclists think of themselves as their biggest threat?
02-08-07, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Portland? I'm shocked!
02-08-07, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
Totally backwards, as usual. The Portland cyclists who run red lights and ride drunk don't do it because they feel safe as a result of bike lanes, they do it because of a peer culture in which recklessness is highly valued.
02-08-07, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
All right, jokes aside, you'll have to back your previous statement up. No third order logic this time. No re-assessment of half understood data. Direct observation.
Otherwise I get to dismiss the statement altogether, as all it is is hot air and paper.
My approach to cycling is different than yours. I am not my biggest threat. However, I am my best defense. FWIW, nothing about accepting personal responsibility contradicts bicycle facilities. You are the only one here who believes that the only alternative to your brand of Vehicular Cycling is blind reliance on bike lanes. You have internalized the either-or fallacy you propogate to the point where you are as bad or worse than those who self describe themselves as "paint 'n path" advocates.
Otherwise I get to dismiss the statement altogether, as all it is is hot air and paper.
My approach to cycling is different than yours. I am not my biggest threat. However, I am my best defense. FWIW, nothing about accepting personal responsibility contradicts bicycle facilities. You are the only one here who believes that the only alternative to your brand of Vehicular Cycling is blind reliance on bike lanes. You have internalized the either-or fallacy you propogate to the point where you are as bad or worse than those who self describe themselves as "paint 'n path" advocates.
You're the one committing the either-or fallacy, Brian, as you are the one who sees me as one who believes that the " only alternative to [my] brand of Vehicular Cycling is blind reliance on bike lanes". I sure don't believe that, by the way. What have I written that makes you think I do?
02-08-07, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryA
Wow and all this time I thought they did it because they were stupid.
Last edited by Blue Order; 02-08-07 at 06:42 PM.
02-08-07, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
. I am not my biggest threat. However, I am my best defense.
02-08-07, 06:41 PM
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How about start with the one above. Specifically, the "cloud of carelessness."
Show me what'cha got! Remember, no logical sequence this time. Only direct observation will do. Keep in mind that there are thousands of transportational cyclists in Portland every day. I saw numbers up in the 10,000s during one presentation. I also saw data which showed that the number of cyclists quintupled over the last 13 years, with accident rates staying flat and fatalities in the single digits (see here from BikePortland.org, the stats are from the Portland Department of Transportation, not any advocacy group). You'll have to bring some first hand data to the table to counter these statistics.
As far as the either-or thing... like I've said, you've internalized it. Otherwise, you'd get off your soap box every once in a while. You think you are right. You have the answer. Every other answer leads to death. Your answer leads to life. Etc.
Show me what'cha got! Remember, no logical sequence this time. Only direct observation will do. Keep in mind that there are thousands of transportational cyclists in Portland every day. I saw numbers up in the 10,000s during one presentation. I also saw data which showed that the number of cyclists quintupled over the last 13 years, with accident rates staying flat and fatalities in the single digits (see here from BikePortland.org, the stats are from the Portland Department of Transportation, not any advocacy group). You'll have to bring some first hand data to the table to counter these statistics.
As far as the either-or thing... like I've said, you've internalized it. Otherwise, you'd get off your soap box every once in a while. You think you are right. You have the answer. Every other answer leads to death. Your answer leads to life. Etc.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
02-08-07, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order
Originally Posted by GaryA
Wow and all this time I thought they did it because they were stupid.
i'm more cautious than pretty much every other biker under 40 i see, but you know, those bikers over 40 are over 40 for a reason.
02-08-07, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
My approach to cycling is different than yours.
I am not my biggest threat. However, I am my best defense.
Thinking of oneself as one's best defense is consistent with an approach that sees external hazards against which one must defend himself. It's, well, defensive thinking. And consistent with this, should you fail to defend yourself appropriately, is victimization thinking. While you failed to defend yourself, or failed to properly prepare for a given situation, it's still not your fault that some guy ran the red light, or there was ice in the road, or there was glass in the road, or whatever.
My approach involves seeing myself as part of the environment - I'm not defending myself, I'm integrating myself with it in a manner that serves me. If it doesn't serve me, if I get hit by a red light runner or slip on some ice, then I have failed to integrate myself with the environment in an appropriate manner.
02-08-07, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
How about start with the one above. Specifically, the "cloud of carelessness."
Show me what'cha got! Remember, no logical sequence this time. Only direct observation will do. Keep in mind that there are thousands of transportational cyclists in Portland every day. I saw numbers up in the 10,000s during one presentation. I also saw data which showed that the number of cyclists quintupled over the last 13 years, with accident rates staying flat and fatalities in the single digits (see here from BikePortland.org, the stats are from the Portland Department of Transportation, not any advocacy group). You'll have to bring some first hand data to the table to counter these statistics.
As far as the either-or thing... like I've said, you've internalized it. Otherwise, you'd get off your soap box every once in a while. You think you are right. You have the answer. Every other answer leads to death. Your answer leads to life. Etc.
Show me what'cha got! Remember, no logical sequence this time. Only direct observation will do. Keep in mind that there are thousands of transportational cyclists in Portland every day. I saw numbers up in the 10,000s during one presentation. I also saw data which showed that the number of cyclists quintupled over the last 13 years, with accident rates staying flat and fatalities in the single digits (see here from BikePortland.org, the stats are from the Portland Department of Transportation, not any advocacy group). You'll have to bring some first hand data to the table to counter these statistics.
As far as the either-or thing... like I've said, you've internalized it. Otherwise, you'd get off your soap box every once in a while. You think you are right. You have the answer. Every other answer leads to death. Your answer leads to life. Etc.
The plethora of bike lanes and other bicycling facilities inevitably casts a cloud of carelessness in the minds of Portland cyclists, leading to mindless and lackadaisical cyclist behavior in general, which infects them even on roads without facilities.
You want direct observation supporting that? You've got to be kidding.I'm sorry, I'm unable to comply. LOL.
02-08-07, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
This?
I'm sorry, I'm unable to comply. LOL.
The plethora of bike lanes and other bicycling facilities inevitably casts a cloud of carelessness in the minds of Portland cyclists, leading to mindless and lackadaisical cyclist behavior in general, which infects them even on roads without facilities.
You want direct observation supporting that? You've got to be kidding.I'm sorry, I'm unable to comply. LOL.
Why the comment? Just talking out your ass?
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
02-08-07, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
This?
I'm sorry, I'm unable to comply. LOL.
The plethora of bike lanes and other bicycling facilities inevitably casts a cloud of carelessness in the minds of Portland cyclists, leading to mindless and lackadaisical cyclist behavior in general, which infects them even on roads without facilities.
You want direct observation supporting that? You've got to be kidding.I'm sorry, I'm unable to comply. LOL.