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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Do you agree with the statement in the OP?
a) Agree. 30 58.82%
b) Agree, unless ... (see OP for full answer) 10 19.61%
c) Generally agree, except ... (specify in post) 3 5.88%
d) Disagree - motorist should not have to slow down and/or ... (see OP for full answer) 4 7.84%
e) Disagree - for reason(s) specified in post. 4 7.84%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-09-07, 03:13 PM   #1
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Agree or Disagree? (1 of 2)

Consider this statement:
As a motorist approaches from behind a cyclist riding relatively slowly up ahead in space adjacent to, but not in, the motorist's intended line of travel, the motorist should take notice of the cyclist, slow down some, and possibly adjust left prior to overtaking the cyclist.
Do you:

a) Agree.
b) Agree, unless cyclist is traveling in space separated from motorist's line of travel by a bike lane stripe or shoulder stripe, in which case adjustment in speed or lateral position is often not required.
c) Generally agree, except ... (specify in post)
d) Disagree - motorist should not have to slow down and/or adjust laterally prior to overtaking an out-of-the-way cyclist traveling in adjacent space, regardless of whether there is a separating stripe or not.
e) Disagree - for reason(s) specified in post.
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Old 02-09-07, 03:16 PM   #2
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a is what should happen, but as a cyclist one can never rely on it happening regardless of striping or not.

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Old 02-09-07, 03:28 PM   #3
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a)

Motorist should slow and move left to increase their reaction time and space should cyclist swerve or fall. This action would also reduce any slipstream buffeting of the cyclist (especially trucks). If the cyclist was at the far side of a 10' wide shoulder it would not be necessary. Personally, my rule-of-thumb overtaking speed differential is 25 - 30 MPH regardless of the speed limit of the road.

It's the same with pedestrians standing at the corner waiting for a light to change to cross the street. I always slow and move left in the curb lane. You never know when a little kid or old person will trip or inadvertently step off the curb. When driving give yourself time and space to stop or avoid a mishap.
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Old 02-09-07, 03:37 PM   #4
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a) is what should happen.

b) and d) are what does happen if the cyclist is not directly in the motor vehicle's line of travel, and particularly if the cyclist's line of travel is separated from the motor vehicle's line of travel by a painted line. This is how bike lanes and paved shoulders lead to closer and higher speed passing than the cyclist being in the motor vehicle travel lane, resulting in bike lanes and paved shoulders being less safe.
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Old 02-09-07, 03:41 PM   #5
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I would prefer A and that is how I drive, and treat cyclists.

But there is really no reason for a motorist to slow down if the cyclist is predictable and not in the line of travel. So D is correct.

B makes it clear to the motorist that the cyclist is out of the line of travel.
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Old 02-09-07, 03:57 PM   #6
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A is what I do and what would be the optimum, but D is what actually happens sometimes.
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Old 02-09-07, 04:58 PM   #7
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Do you have a choice for: I got bored reading the all too verbose question and gave up.

Think succinct.
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Old 02-09-07, 05:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
... but D is what actually happens sometimes.
D is what always happens on a high speed road, unless the driver is unable to pass at full speed due to traffic density. It is immaterial what HH and his comrades think should happen.

If I wanted to dream about what "should" happen, each driver would shower me with flowers, candy and chocolates as I pass by. Dreaming doesn't trump reality.
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Old 02-09-07, 05:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
If I wanted to dream about what "should" happen, each driver would shower me with flowers, candy and chocolates as I pass by. Dreaming doesn't trump reality.
I dunno, I figured you out to be a beer and sausage guy.
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Old 02-09-07, 05:13 PM   #10
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I answered B, as that I how I generally drive in the presence of cyclists. Often, where they are in a suitable "adjacent facility" there is usually little need to adjust road position or speed. Of course, some anticipation is worthwhile here, as the rider may be preparing to move out to make a turn etc, esp if we are on the approach to an intersection. Always better to be ready for the unexpected!!

I believe most of this (should) come down to common sense road use, but common sense has been on back order for a while now

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Old 02-09-07, 05:24 PM   #11
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I disagree with this poll in general.

mmmmm, hot dogs
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Old 02-09-07, 05:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
D is what always happens on a high speed road, unless the driver is unable to pass at full speed due to traffic density. It is immaterial what HH and his comrades think should happen.

If I wanted to dream about what "should" happen, each driver would shower me with flowers, candy and chocolates as I pass by. Dreaming doesn't trump reality.
I tend to agree... but damn, I was really hoping for flowers, candy and chocolates.

The funny thing is that a pass such as "D" is exactly what motorists do to other motorists... so this matches the Foresterite mindset... they are treating us just like "drivers of vehicles."
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Old 02-09-07, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
D is what always happens on a high speed road, unless the driver is unable to pass at full speed due to traffic density. It is immaterial what HH and his comrades think should happen.

If I wanted to dream about what "should" happen, each driver would shower me with flowers, candy and chocolates as I pass by. Dreaming doesn't trump reality.
Haven't ridden around here lately, have you?
a) is what happens a majority of the time when the cyclist is on a paved shoulder. However, on the paved shoulder is when the frequency of a) lessens, it's still a majority of passing motorists.

But maybe you're right. Maybe 55-60 mph speed limits aren't what you define as high speed roads.
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Old 02-09-07, 05:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
The funny thing is that a pass such as "D" is exactly what motorists do to other motorists... so this matches the Foresterite mindset... they are treating us just like "drivers of vehicles."
Have you ever seen how motorists treat each other when passing on a newly repaved multi-lane road on which stripes are not painted yet?
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Old 02-09-07, 05:49 PM   #15
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It should really be required that drivers move over as much as possible, and slow down enough to make passing safe when there isn't enough room to move over. The amount of space needed to pass is directly proportional to the speed, so if you can't move over much just slow down. If the car is going 5mph and I'm going 3 mph, I don't mind if my elbow brushes the mirror.
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Old 02-09-07, 06:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemmer
It should really be required that drivers move over as much as possible, and slow down enough to make passing safe when there isn't enough room to move over. The amount of space needed to pass is directly proportional to the speed, so if you can't move over much just slow down. If the car is going 5mph and I'm going 3 mph, I don't mind if my elbow brushes the mirror.
Sure a requirement... like a law or something...

Bottom line is the air whoosh off of a close passing car can knock a cyclist down... but motorists fail to realize that.
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Old 02-09-07, 06:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Have you ever seen how motorists treat each other when passing on a newly repaved multi-lane road on which stripes are not painted yet?
Sure, they are afraid to scratch their multi thousand dollar toy...

Too bad they may not feel the same way about "lycra clad clowns on bikes that always run stop signs."
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Old 02-09-07, 06:15 PM   #18
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There are many roads on which it isn't necessary to slow down or move for a cyclist. Generalities lead to accidents.

On 4-lane or larger roads, I would prefer cars not slow down, but just change lanes. I don't slow down for cars in my way when I drive if I can simply move, either.
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Old 02-09-07, 07:28 PM   #19
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I dunno, I figured you out to be a beer and sausage guy.
You are correct, I was having crossed signals from 2003 Rumsfield/Cheney dreams.
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Old 02-09-07, 07:32 PM   #20
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1 of 2?

Why does my spider sense tell me that HH is setting us up with our answers on this poll for his question on the second poll?
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Old 02-09-07, 07:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Order
1 of 2?

Why does my spider sense tell me that HH is setting us up with our answers on this poll for his question on the second poll?
Well, duh. Do I have to spell it out?

Actually, the discussion seems to be raising most of the issues anyway, perhaps 2 of 2 is not even needed. Still, we'll let this one run its course a few days first.
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Old 02-09-07, 07:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Order
1 of 2?

Why does my spider sense tell me that HH is setting us up with our answers on this poll for his question on the second poll?
I know. waiting for the other shoe to drop...
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Old 02-09-07, 07:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommuterRun
Haven't ridden around here lately, have you?
a) is what happens a majority of the time when the cyclist is on a paved shoulder.
Paved shoulder? What's that?
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Old 02-09-07, 07:43 PM   #24
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Why take a poll on what should happen?

Why not take a poll on what really happens?

This is a simple setup for powerweaving propoganda. By answering A, he's going to say that you believe moving left is a guarantee that you'll never get hit.

Just a stupid, silly setup.
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Old 02-09-07, 07:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingSabre
Why take a poll on what should happen?
Why not take the poll and find out?

If we can agree on what we think should happen, or what we would like to happen, perhaps we can later move on to figuring out how best to get there?

Quote:
Why not take a poll on what really happens?
Why not indeed. Well, that would be a different poll. It's a free world...

Quote:
This is a simple setup for powerweaving propoganda. By answering A, he's going to say that you believe moving left is a guarantee that you'll never get hit.
I've never said moving left is a guarantee that you'll never get hit, and hereby certify that I will never say that anyone shows that he believes that simply by answering A.

Quote:
Just a stupid, silly setup.
Just a stupid, silly post. If you have something of substance to add here, please do. Otherwise, perhaps you can find something of value to say in some other thread and/or forum?
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