Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-12-07, 07:03 PM   #1
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
bike cop hit by motorist

details are sketchy, but a cop on a bike was in the lane and got hit by a motorist in Tacoma.

was the bike cop at fault? did the driver fail to yield? or was the policeman just not conspicious enough? perhaps an electronic distraction device used by the driver at the time of the collision prevented the driver from noticing the policeman.

further evidence as to the fallacy of lane position as traffic cure-all, regardless of lane position.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 07:46 PM   #2
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,781
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
With "sketchy details" as you mention, how can any such conclusion be made regarding the "fallacy of lane position?"

For all you have presented... the cop may have been on a sidewalk crossing a driveway.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 07:53 PM   #3
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
oh, he was reported as being in the lane and hit by cross traffic.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 08:20 PM   #4
Blue Order
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
oh, he was reported as being in the lane and hit by cross traffic.
Yeah, but was he POWERWEAVING™? Was he using a steely-eyed Alpha Dog stare? Did he anticipate that he would get hit?

Is there ANY way at all we could blame this on the cyclist?
Blue Order is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 08:27 PM   #5
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
According to Lord Master Forester and his little dog HH, the cop probably caused it due to his own error.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 08:42 PM   #6
CrosseyedCrickt
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I've had enough.
Bikes:
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Definately the bike cops fault!!
He failed to make sure the road was completely clear of people, the pastures completely clear of cows, and that no meteorites were falling from the skies.
CrosseyedCrickt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 08:47 PM   #7
Blue Order
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosseyedCrickt
Definately the bike cops fault!!
He failed to make sure the road was completely clear of people, the pastures completely clear of cows, and that no meteorites were falling from the skies.
And the text-messaging driver who hit him was involved in a useful economic activity.
Blue Order is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 08:49 PM   #8
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
dude, the bike cop likely overlooked the meteorites! but it was definetly his fault, his lane position just wasn't exactly right, even though the driver violated right of way rules.

seems like some drivers are not paying attention, and if that's what some drivers do, we as bikers should be cognizant of that, and prepare for it.

how could it be a drivers fault for failing to notice the bike cop? the cop should have noticed the car, and premptively avoided the collision. since he did not, it was his fault for failing to adjust for a distracted driver on a cross street.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 09:36 PM   #9
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
how could it be a drivers fault for failing to notice the bike cop? the cop should have noticed the car, and premptively avoided the collision. since he did not, it was his fault for failing to adjust for a distracted driver on a cross street.
It was the cop's fault because he wasn't left-handed. If he were, all the motorists would have noticed him due to the conspicuity of his firearm.

All smart-aleck remarks aside, that's really sad to hear, Bek. My personal experiences with bike cops are among the most positive I've had with law enforcement. Will you keep us apprised of the details as you learn them?
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 09:40 PM   #10
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes, donna. it is always tragic to hear of injuries from traffic accidents. i shouldn't be making such levity of a serious situation, but wanted to use this accident to illustrate the failure of lane position to protect against distracted drivers.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 10:13 PM   #11
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
According to Lord Master Forester and his little dog HH...
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 12:02 AM   #12
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
yes, donna. it is always tragic to hear of injuries from traffic accidents. i shouldn't be making such levity of a serious situation, but wanted to use this accident to illustrate the failure of lane position to protect against distracted drivers.
Yeah, if a on-duty (I presume?) police officer took the lane and it didn't matter, I can't help but wonder what that means for the rest of us. I can't speak for the Tacoma area, but our bike cops look pretty darn cop-like. If you don't notice that, you're driving in a coma.
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 01:03 AM   #13
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Some pretty sick comments here.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 02:07 AM   #14
Central_Rider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: S. Riding, Va.
Bikes: 2 Road, 1 SS/FG
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI
Some pretty sick comments here.
You got that right.
Central_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 11:11 AM   #15
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you guys haven't heard of traffic accidents? they happen often, hawaii dudes.

my post #8 mirrors the comments by the A&S rezident bike blamer helemt head as to why bikes are at fault even when distracted drivers are factored into the accident scenario.

Oh, it was a cop on a motorbike, BTW.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 11:31 AM   #16
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,781
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnamb
Yeah, if a on-duty (I presume?) police officer took the lane and it didn't matter, I can't help but wonder what that means for the rest of us. I can't speak for the Tacoma area, but our bike cops look pretty darn cop-like. If you don't notice that, you're driving in a coma.
But golly so many drivers are in a "coma..." somewhere in their climate controlled environment, with the built in multi speaker entertainment center, behind their tinted glass windows, tending to business on cell phones and text messaging while perched on fine Corinthean leather; I am surprised they find time to even tend to the coffee and donuts they pick up at the local drive thru window. Driving??? what is that? Oh and where are those cigarettes... and golly don't forget to primp the hair.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 08:23 PM   #17
Enigma198
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wakulla County, FL
Bikes: Cannondale mb, Catrike Pocket
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not Obvious to Everyone

I am under no illusion, despite the Taser, Glock, helmet and radio that I am recognized as a bike cop...at least by motorist. One of the local thugs we got last summer actually saw our approach but did not realize who we were until it was to late. He complained that he thought we were "those f!!!!!!g Mormons". I also got attitude from a first responder at a motorcycle crash until he realized there was a reason two of us were dressed alike and packing heat. I think as our program continues more people will get use to recognizing us but would still not think that the bike cop status would make me car proof/resistant.
Enigma198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 08:38 PM   #18
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma198
He complained that he thought we were "those f!!!!!!g Mormons".
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 08:58 PM   #19
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma198
I am under no illusion, despite the Taser, Glock, helmet and radio that I am recognized as a bike cop...at least by motorist. One of the local thugs we got last summer actually saw our approach but did not realize who we were until it was to late. He complained that he thought we were "those f!!!!!!g Mormons". I also got attitude from a first responder at a motorcycle crash until he realized there was a reason two of us were dressed alike and packing heat. I think as our program continues more people will get use to recognizing us but would still not think that the bike cop status would make me car proof/resistant.
Ah, here where I live, the police issue bike raingear is so like the typical bike commuter's raingear, many men get treated very, very well on the roads because the motorists mistake them for police. Of course, with my red, girly, step-through bike and my purple raincoat, I can't get away with that.
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 09:11 PM   #20
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
you guys haven't heard of traffic accidents? they happen often, hawaii dudes.

my post #8 mirrors the comments by the A&S rezident bike blamer helemt head as to why bikes are at fault even when distracted drivers are factored into the accident scenario.

Oh, it was a cop on a motorbike, BTW.
So, your comments are still sick.
A motorcycle cop recently lost his life in an accident during a Presidentil escort here in Hawaii. We did not joke about it.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 09:19 PM   #21
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI
So, your comments are still sick.
A motorcycle cop recently lost his life in an accident during a Presidentil escort here in Hawaii. We did not joke about it.
Having done the job myself, I'm not offended. Nobody is making a joke about the cop's death, but rather making fun of the usual 'the cyclist was wrong' crap that usually comes with these threads. But it seems we've committed the same offense by doing our poking in this thread.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 09:23 PM   #22
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You think I have no compassion? plueaze, i've volunteered hundreds, likely thousands of hours of my life in the service of others in life threatening situations requiring rescue and evacuation. I hope the policeman makes a speedy and complete recovery.

i was using an accident just echoing and parodying the comments often made in A&S by the esteemed armchair cyclist that always blames the cyclist.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-07, 02:27 PM   #23
richardmasoner
Fritz M
 
richardmasoner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Bikes: Trek, Spesh, GT, Centurion
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
According to Lord Master Forester and his little dog HH, the cop probably caused it due to his own error.
Putting Bekologist and Forester in agreement.

RFM
richardmasoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-07, 02:33 PM   #24
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardmasoner
Putting Bekologist and Forester in agreement.

RFM

With the exception that one is only agreeing by satire.
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-07, 02:35 PM   #25
richardmasoner
Fritz M
 
richardmasoner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Bikes: Trek, Spesh, GT, Centurion
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
i was using an accident just echoing and parodying the comments often made in A&S by the esteemed armchair cyclist that always blames the cyclist.
You also wrote:
Quote:
further evidence as to the fallacy of lane position as traffic cure-all, regardless of lane position.
In other words, because the cop was in the lane, he was at fault? That's how I read it.

People in the lane get hit, sure, but so do cyclists on the path crossing the road, cyclists in the gutter, cyclists in the bike lane, and cyclists on sidewalk. If getting rear-ended is a fatal shortcoming of taking the lane, then so is any kind of riding style or engineering short of creating a complete network of fully segregated paths. I don't hold that view, but that's how I'm reading you. If complete safety is what you want, go buy the biggest truck money can buy.
richardmasoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 AM.