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View Poll Results: Does the explanation in the OP make sense?

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  • Yes, the explanation in the OP makes sense. I get it, but I already got it before I read the OP.

    6 75.00%
  • Yes, the explanation in the OP makes sense. I didn't get it before I read the OP, but I get it now.

    1 12.50%
  • I read the OP. I still don't get it (please explain what you don't understand in a post).

    1 12.50%
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  1. #1
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Why bike lane opponents ride in bike lanes.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion on the point about why bike lane opponents like myself sometimes ride in bike lanes. I would like to dedicate a thread to clearing it up once and for all.

    Yes, bike lane opponents do ride in bike lanes. This may seem contradictory, but remember, we're opposed to the presence of the bike lane stripe, not use of the the space it demarcates.

    To understand this, picture in your mind a road with a bike lane with which you are familiar. For sake of discussion, let's refer to the space to the right of the stripe as roadway margin space, and to the space in the outside vehicular traffic lane adjacent to the bike lane as the outside lane primary travel space.

    When you're riding in a bike lane, you're in the roadway margin space, and cars in the adjacent lane are passing you using the outside lane primary travel space.

    Now, on a road like this, many of us who oppose bike lanes also (not coincidentally) prefer to ride in the outside lane primary travel space where we are more conspicuous, especially when faster same direction traffic is not present. But, we certainly use the roadway margin space, when safe and reasonable to do so, to allow faster traffic to pass us. The thing is, we use that roadway margin space for those good reasons whether or not it happens to be demarcated with a bike lane stripe. The same reasons apply whether or not the roadway margin space happens to be demarcated with a bike lane stripe. That's why we sometimes ride in bike lanes, even though we're opposed to bike lanes.

    I hope this makes sense.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    And I thought was part of a public service to improve the sweeping of bike lanes, using bike instead of car tires.

  3. #3
    Conservative Hippie
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    In addition, we may also use a paved shoulder in this manner, treating the shoulder as additional width of the lane, as if the white stripe were nonexistent. However, we may not use a bike lane or paved shoulder, riding in the "outside lane primary travel space," if a situation exists that may jeopardize safety or be otherwise unreasonable.

  4. #4
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterRun
    In addition, we may also use a paved shoulder in this manner, treating the shoulder as additional width of the lane, as if the white stripe were nonexistent. However, we may not use a bike lane or paved shoulder, riding in the "outside lane primary travel space," if a situation exists that may jeopardize safety or be otherwise unreasonable.
    +1

  5. #5
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    i purposely try to avoid shoulders because where I live, they are always filled with broken glass and nails...

    It's just a river of glass and nails ... most of the bike lanes around here are exactly the same as the shoulders - you guessed it - full of glass and nails.

    crap.
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  6. #6
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordfasterr
    i purposely try to avoid shoulders because where I live, they are always filled with broken glass and nails...

    It's just a river of glass and nails ... most of the bike lanes around here are exactly the same as the shoulders - you guessed it - full of glass and nails.

    crap.
    Crap clutter is one of many reason to avoid bike lanes and shoulders.
    Still, sometimes none of the reasons apply, and so the space demarcated by the bike lane or shoulder stripe is appropriate to use.

  7. #7
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    I had to read the post about four times to cut through the really confusing over-statement of his case here. In other words, he doesn't like bike lanes because he thinks he's safer and more conspicuous riding on the side of the road near the shoulder. He thinks the cars are going to treat the bike lane like a shoulder. Geez! Just say it.

  8. #8
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty comical that HH will go to such lengths to try to get people to understand his anti-bike lane (but still rides in them anyway) position but will go to no lengths to understand how experienced cyclists can favor bike lanes (but still ride outside them sometimes anyway).
    ~Diane
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    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  9. #9
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    If there is no painted stripe, then isn't it called a "wide lane" and not a bike lane?
    Forgive my ignorance and we have no bike lanes at all where I live.

  10. #10
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    I think it's pretty comical that HH will go to such lengths to try to get people to understand his anti-bike lane (but still rides in them anyway) position but will go to no lengths to understand how experienced cyclists can favor bike lanes (but still ride outside them sometimes anyway).
    I make every effort I can to understand why some experienced cyclists favor bike lanes. And I bet I do understand it, and can explain it, better than you.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by monk
    I had to read the post about four times to cut through the really confusing over-statement of his case here. In other words, he doesn't like bike lanes because he thinks he's safer and more conspicuous riding on the side of the road near the shoulder. He thinks the cars are going to treat the bike lane like a shoulder. Geez! Just say it.
    I'm sorry, the post doesn't even attempt to explain why I or anyone else is opposed to bike lanes (and the reason is not "because he thinks he's safer and more conspicuous riding on the side of the road near the shoulder").

    The OP attempts to explain why those of us who do oppose bike lanes, sometimes choose to ride in bike lanes anyway.

    While I do believe many drivers (not cars) do see and treat bike lanes like shoulders, that's not directly relevant to the point of this thread.

  12. #12
    Dubito ergo sum. patc's Avatar
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    We're missing option "D" - Hypocrisy.

  13. #13
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    so, you ride in bike lanes, head? you favor them sometimes.

    this thread IS hilarious. what are you trying to say, head?

    you do realize you're misinterpreting roadway striping don't you?most of us vehicular cyclists know how to ride on roads with bike lanes, helmie.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrosseyedCrickt
    If there is no painted stripe, then isn't it called a "wide lane" and not a bike lane?
    Forgive my ignorance and we have no bike lanes at all where I live.
    Yes, if you have a road with bike lanes, and then remove the bike lane stripes, what remains are WOLs, or Wide Outside Lanes.

    If you have a road without bike lanes, then the outside lanes may be wide or narrow. By "wide" I mean "wide enough for a bike and vehicle to safely travel side-by-side both fully within the lane". By "narrow" I mean not as wide enough to be "wide".

    A wide lane is at least 14 if not 15 feet wide. Any lane much narrower is typically too narrow to be shared, except perhaps at very low speeds.

  15. #15
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    so, bike lane opponents ride in bike lanes? interesting....
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  16. #16
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    OK, I just don't get it.
    Is it the paint that offends you? Such as hanging your elbows over the painted line? Are you afraid that a car will whack your arm off in passing to close and you are going to get cited for traveling outside of your lane because your arm was hanging over the painted stripe?

  17. #17
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    cars need to overtake vehicles and bikes safely, crosseyed cricket. regardless of lane position.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    cars need to overtake vehicles and bikes safely, crosseyed cricket. regardless of lane position.
    this I know
    I'm just trying to figure out what in the name of all that which is good and sweet in Odins beard this thread is all about.

  19. #19
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    somehow explaining his hipocracy.

    helmie doesn't like bike lanes, but he uses them when he likes them.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    somehow explaining his hipocracy.

    helmie doesn't like bike lanes, but he uses them when he likes them.
    Well I don't like using condems, but I DO use them when it is necessary.
    Though I'll not advocate against using condems.

  21. #21
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Naw, i think its MORE like Mormons that drink AND gamble- but only in Nevada. -never in Utah.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    Naw, i think its MORE like Mormons that drink AND gamble- but only in Nevada. -never in Utah.
    I read that nine times before I realized it didn't say "morons".
    hehe

  23. #23
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    There are plenty other threads that detail why one wouldn't want bike lanes. I think he's pretty much saying the space would be just as useful without the stripe, and he's going to use it as such.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by coweater
    There are plenty other threads that detail why one wouldn't want bike lanes. I think he's pretty much saying the space would be just as useful without the stripe, and he's going to use it as such.
    but where I live, if there is a shoulder available, then you would not be allowed to use that space UNLESS there was a bike lane there

  25. #25
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    yeah, but wide outside lanes are NOT as useful as bike lanes. a bike can always get stopped by congested traffic in wide outside lanes, but bike lanes allow bikes to pass congested traffic.

    additionally, a bike lane presents LESS ambuigity on a road than a wide outside lane. additionally, in a wide lane, attempting to control a wide lane leaves cyclists open to being passed on both sides.

    now, helemt head says he doesn't like bike lanes, but he likes them when he rides in them. he uses bike lanes to his advantage, similar to other vehicular cyclists. he swerves in anod out of lanes a bit much, but he's free to ride all crazywampus, but most vehicular cyclists find his technique of weaving in and out of a lane depending on traffic overtaking as unwarranted and unnecessary.

    helemt is against bike lanes politically, not the benefits he receives when using them. when he actually rides. i believe he's posted he drives his commute more often than he rides. I can see where bike lanes make less sense to a guy that drives a lot, i can see that.

    anyway, helemt head is against bike lanes, except when he uses a bike lane.

    = Like mormons that only drink and gamble in Nevada, but drive to Sacramento from Salt Lake City often.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 02-15-07 at 11:37 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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