Awsome advocacy story!
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Awsome advocacy story!
There is an awesome advocacy story in the commuting forum... check it out:
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/271556-policeman-told-me-get-sidewalk-today.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/271556-policeman-told-me-get-sidewalk-today.html
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
There is an awesome advocacy story in the commuting forum... check it out:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=271556
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=271556
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Originally Posted by Owltooth
so I'm just to the right of the middle of my lane as always, (I don't want to give SUVs the impression that they can share the lane with me by riding on the shoulder...) and the cop pulls up along side me as I'm riding, and says "sir you need to get off of the road and onto the sidewalk."
All things considered, even if the police officer is not respectful (and in this case, he seemed very polite,) I think it's usually best to obey the officer and swallow your pride. Believe me, I know how tough that can be, too, when you honestly believe you're in the right.
I don't mean this to condemn the OP, I feel for him. In the same situation, I might have done exactly the same thing, but I don't recommend it to anyone. It's often best just to comply, and let things go. That doesn't mean becoming a door-mat, I think you should follow up if your rights are being violated.
Keep in mind that while we have a right to the road, individual state laws often state the cyclist, if other traffic is backing up behind him/her, should move over to let traffic pass. This is a judgement call that the cyclist usually makes, but sometimes the police do, as well.
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Last edited by LittleBigMan; 02-23-07 at 08:53 AM.
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Keep in mind that while we have a right to the road, individual state laws often state the cyclist, if other traffic is backing up behind him/her, should move over to let traffic pass.
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I think its more a statement of the ignorance of police, versus any real advocacy.
I hardly find it awesome or even advocacy. if he started a public campaign to educate the police and the public that bicyclists belong, that'd be different.
I think the OP of this thread has often opined that drivers don't need any additional training as to cyclists, the onus of safety is on the bicyclists wheels and shoulders alone.
how does the OP of this thread feel about national training for police about cyclists rights and weaknesses?
I hardly find it awesome or even advocacy. if he started a public campaign to educate the police and the public that bicyclists belong, that'd be different.
I think the OP of this thread has often opined that drivers don't need any additional training as to cyclists, the onus of safety is on the bicyclists wheels and shoulders alone.
how does the OP of this thread feel about national training for police about cyclists rights and weaknesses?
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
how does the OP of this thread feel about national training for police about cyclists rights and weaknesses?
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Originally Posted by zeytoun
The OP states that there were two lanes of traffic in each direction.
But if a policeman ordered me to do move over, I'd do it, even if I thought he was wrong.
The policeman's judgement might have been less accurate than the OP's, but the law might have sided with the policeman.
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
The policeman's judgement might have been less accurate than the OP's, but the law might have sided with the policeman.
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
I understand, the OP (Owltooth) was saying there was plenty of room for traffic to clear. I ride roads like he describes in rush hour traffic all the time, and I'm in complete agreement with his judgement.
But if a policeman ordered me to do move over, I'd do it, even if I thought he was wrong.
The policeman's judgement might have been less accurate than the OP's, but the law might have sided with the policeman.
But if a policeman ordered me to do move over, I'd do it, even if I thought he was wrong.
The policeman's judgement might have been less accurate than the OP's, but the law might have sided with the policeman.
My response to you was just commenting specifically on the "backing up traffic" point, not the rest of your post.
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Originally Posted by joejack951
All of the laws against impeding traffic while operating a slow moving vehicle that I've read have only applied when there is no lane for passing provided.
The point is, I disagree with Owltooth's choice to argue with a policeman, but it's a free country, after all. I guess I'm more "non-confrontational" in nature. Plus, I've not had much success challenging the powers-that-be on their own turf.
My advice stands, unless it's a real policy-changing "Rosa Parks" move, there's not much point in arguing with cops. This one seemed pretty laid-back, though.
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Originally Posted by zeytoun
I understand, and it's a personal decision whether you will comply with an order that you believe is baseless. I respect your point of view.
My response to you was just commenting specifically on the "backing up traffic" point, not the rest of your post.
My response to you was just commenting specifically on the "backing up traffic" point, not the rest of your post.
(Hey, Zeytoun, why is everyone messing around with Chippie's avatar? At first, I though it was really him...)
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
Again, I ride like this all the time, and never leave the road to let traffic pass. I figure if they're grown up enough to reach the gas pedal, they ought to be able to pass me on a bike.
The point is, I disagree with Owltooth's choice to argue with a policeman, but it's a free country, after all. I guess I'm more "non-confrontational" in nature. Plus, I've not had much success challenging the powers-that-be on their own turf.
My advice stands, unless it's a real policy-changing "Rosa Parks" move, there's not much point in arguing with cops. This one seemed pretty laid-back, though.
The point is, I disagree with Owltooth's choice to argue with a policeman, but it's a free country, after all. I guess I'm more "non-confrontational" in nature. Plus, I've not had much success challenging the powers-that-be on their own turf.
My advice stands, unless it's a real policy-changing "Rosa Parks" move, there's not much point in arguing with cops. This one seemed pretty laid-back, though.
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(Hey, Zeytoun, why is everyone messing around with Chippie's avatar? At first, I though it was really him...)
I'll substitute my cat's head for Chipcom's later today... maybe that will be less confusing.
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Originally Posted by joejack951
A police officer decided he didn't want to change lanes to pass even with no one else around and being the kind of guy I am I held my ground even when he honked (of course, I did turn around and wave when he did). I pulled over when he turned on the lights though and let him know what I thought about him ordering me onto the shoulder for supposedly impeding traffic (maybe not the smartest move on an empty road early in the morning). Anyway, you give good advice and I'd probably do more of what you are suggesting than what I did before if I ever encountered a similar situation. Of course, I'd also get a badge number and report him immediately.
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Originally Posted by zeytoun
I'll substitute my cat's head for Chipcom's later today... maybe that will be less confusing.
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
All things considered, even if the police officer is not respectful (and in this case, he seemed very polite,) I think it's usually best to obey the officer and swallow your pride. Believe me, I know how tough that can be, too, when you honestly believe you're in the right.
Not only was the policeman legally in the wrong, he was speaking from the prevelant belief of bikes as second-class road users that must never delay motor vehicles. That's actively anti-cycling!
Advocacy can be one-on-one, although granted it's usually more effective coming from an official organization. I believe that I'm engaging in a little bit of advocacy every time I'm driving my bike predictably and legally in traffic.
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
From an advocacy point of view, I respectfully disagree in this case. The policeman was plainly ignorant of the law; he said the bike should be on the sidewalk.
In principle, I stand by my belief that it's usually better to obey the authority, then follow up with protest later. It looks better to a judge. It also might go a long way to educating policemen, too, if you show them you're agreeable.
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