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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Phil Liggett - fear monger?

    Did anyone tape last night's Versus coverage of the Tour of California?

    Fairly early, Phil Liggett made an observation about the peloton riding along highway 1, which of course was closed for the race. I don't have the exact quote, but he said something like it being a beautiful place to ride, but to not do it normally when the highway is open because it's too narrow. Isn't this the primary if not only cycling north/south route in the region?

    Now even Phil is promoting the notion that cyclists don't belong on roads with lanes too narrow to be safely shared. Ugh.

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    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I don't know, how is it for cycling by 'average' recreationalists, mr head?

    maybe his intent was to keep riders safe....anyone worth their salt in the biking arena understands some roads are safer than others, and some are downright unfriendly for cycling.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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    N_C
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    Will there be coverage on tonight? Never mind I found out it will be.

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    Commentators are not known for their intelligence.
    He *possible* could have been aiming his comments more towards people new to road cycling, or cycling in general... knowing that seasoned cyclists would ignore his comments in the first place.
    I didn't see/hear it, I'm just making an assumption.

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrosseyedCrickt
    Commentators are not known for their intelligence.
    He *possible* could have been aiming his comments more towards people new to road cycling, or cycling in general... knowing that seasoned cyclists would ignore his comments in the first place.
    I didn't see/hear it, I'm just making an assumption.
    This is not an area where "unseasoned cyclists" would even consider cycling - too far from anywhere. Any riding here implies a relatively long ride, plus hills... he could only have been talking about "seasoned" cyclists.

    Besides, highway 1, up and down the entire coast, is pretty much the same as it was in the section they were showing when Phil made the comment, and is some of the most outstanding cycling in the world, and should be highly recommended. Hearing him discourage cyclists from riding there, implying it's not a reasonable thing to do, was disheartening.

    Did anyone else hear it or notice it?

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    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    phil liggett- safety advocate. seasoned bike rider himself, i believe?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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    hateful little monkey jim-bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Phil Liggett - fear monger?
    You're absolutely correct. Phil Liggett is an enemy of cyclists everywhere, and I welcome the day when your tribunal brings him to justice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Did anyone tape last night's Versus coverage of the Tour of California?

    Fairly early, Phil Liggett made an observation about the peloton riding along highway 1, which of course was closed for the race. I don't have the exact quote, but he said something like it being a beautiful place to ride, but to not do it normally when the highway is open because it's too narrow. Isn't this the primary if not only cycling north/south route in the region?

    Now even Phil is promoting the notion that cyclists don't belong on roads with lanes too narrow to be safely shared. Ugh.
    Highway 1 is just what it sounds like-- a highway. As in high speeds. There's no such thing as lane "sharing" or "taking the lane." You either have a shoulder to ride on, or you don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    This is not an area where "unseasoned cyclists" would even consider cycling - too far from anywhere. Any riding here implies a relatively long ride, plus hills... he could only have been talking about "seasoned" cyclists.

    Besides, highway 1, up and down the entire coast, is pretty much the same as it was in the section they were showing when Phil made the comment, and is some of the most outstanding cycling in the world, and should be highly recommended. Hearing him discourage cyclists from riding there, implying it's not a reasonable thing to do, was disheartening.

    Did anyone else hear it or notice it?
    Well, then, like my fist statement, commentators are not known for their intelligence, doesn't matter what their previous career was.
    Maybe the TV station had him say it as some sort of off handed PSA, or maybe he really thinks that. Never the less, I dn't really see it as discouraging. I hear 1000 times a day of how bad smoking is, that's never caused me to want to quit.
    Maybe if we had his verbatim statement this would be easier to discuss. As it is, you're the only person to post who has heard it, and it's human nature to misinterpet and mishear things when their mind s fixed on something visually.

    I don't see this statement though as trying to insist fear in anyone (fear mongering)

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    I'm fine. Cromulent's Avatar
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    I heard it, and Phil's comments surprised me a bit, since he rides all over the world. But that was the PCH, wasn't it? That road looks like it's pretty steep and twisty with lots of blind curves (not that I've been on it, that's what it looked like on my TV). And it didn't look like there was a safe shoulder to ride on. I don't ride on shoulders regularly, but on a double-striped, one lane (each way) highway with lots of blind curves, I would be on the shoulder. At least going up hill. Without traffic it looked like a lot of fun.

    Anyone from that area regularly ride on that road?

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    I think it's unfair to characterize Phil Liggett as a fear monger based on that one comment. That stretch of Highway 1 (Mt. Tamalpais to Bodega Bay) is narrow, twisty, hilly, windy and heavily traveled. There are few places to safely pass another vehicle and a significant number or the motorists are unfamiliar with the road and are distracted by the scenery. Riding there would require more than the usual amount of caution. I would choose another route, if possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Did anyone tape last night's Versus coverage of the Tour of California?

    Fairly early, Phil Liggett made an observation about the peloton riding along highway 1, which of course was closed for the race. I don't have the exact quote, but he said something like it being a beautiful place to ride, but to not do it normally when the highway is open because it's too narrow. Isn't this the primary if not only cycling north/south route in the region?

    Now even Phil is promoting the notion that cyclists don't belong on roads with lanes too narrow to be safely shared. Ugh.

    Digging deep for something to whine about, aren't we?
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    I don't know, how is it for cycling by 'average' recreationalists, mr head?

    maybe his intent was to keep riders safe....anyone worth their salt in the biking arena understands some roads are safer than others, and some are downright unfriendly for cycling.
    It is the only road for cyclists to take to get to North County cities... And cities along the California coast. Motorists can chose to use freeway 5 which parallels 1/101... cyclists have no such choice.

    Perhaps the motorists should simply obey the law and drive the speed limit and learn to share the road. Cyclists can... why can't motorists?

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Highway 1 is just what it sounds like-- a highway. As in high speeds. There's no such thing as lane "sharing" or "taking the lane." You either have a shoulder to ride on, or you don't.
    Many sections of highway 1 between Stinson Beach and Bodega Bay - the route followed by the tour yesterday - are posted at 35 or 45 mph, certainly not more than 55, and then only on long straightaways. This is not a freeway! This is premiere cycling terrain!

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Highway 1 is just what it sounds like-- a highway. As in high speeds. There's no such thing as lane "sharing" or "taking the lane." You either have a shoulder to ride on, or you don't.
    In some cases you do not. I have ridden the length of that road from San Francisco to San Diego, and shared it with large RVs... in some places "sharing" means taking the lane and not allowing a pass until it is safe. There are narrow bridges on that road too.

    By contrast however, the same road extends all the way up into Oregon, and changes dramatically as it crosses the CA/OR border... where in Oregon, it always has a shoulder and a bike lane, and regular signs marking the bike lane. That is not the case in CA.

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    Abby Normal I am The Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Did anyone tape last night's Versus coverage of the Tour of California?

    Fairly early, Phil Liggett made an observation about the peloton riding along highway 1, which of course was closed for the race. I don't have the exact quote, but he said something like it being a beautiful place to ride, but to not do it normally when the highway is open because it's too narrow. Isn't this the primary if not only cycling north/south route in the region?

    Now even Phil is promoting the notion that cyclists don't belong on roads with lanes too narrow to be safely shared. Ugh.
    you are completely off-base on phil.

    he wasn't talking about highway 1 but the road they turned right onto.....AND he was right there isn't a shoulder on that road. yes, we have a right to the road just like any other vehicle but the road is very narrow.

    maybe you shouldn't be on a such witch hunt.
    Wow.

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbait
    I think it's unfair to characterize Phil Liggett as a fear monger based on that one comment. That stretch of Highway 1 (Mt. Tamalpais to Bodega Bay) is narrow, twisty, hilly, windy and heavily traveled. There are few places to safely pass another vehicle and a significant number or the motorists are unfamiliar with the road and are distracted by the scenery. Riding there would require more than the usual amount of caution. I would choose another route, if possible.
    There is no other route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    There is no other route.
    That doesn't mean it's a safe route.

    EDIT: What I mean is, if it's the only north-south route, AND it doesn't safely accommodate both bikes and cars, then safe accommodation of both should be a priority for CalTrans. Steely-eyed alpha dog stare downs aren't what I mean by "safe accommodation."

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    That doesn't mean it's a safe route.

    EDIT: What I mean is, if it's the only north-south route, AND it doesn't safely accommodate both bikes and cars, then safe accommodation of both should be a priority for CalTrans. Steely-eyed alpha dog stare downs aren't what I mean by "safe accommodation."
    Well there we agree. CalTrans should do what Oregon does just north of the border... but then CalTrans would have to recognize that cyclists are valid users of the road. Like that is ever going to happen... sigh...

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I am The Edge
    you are completely off-base on phil.
    Hey, don't get the wrong idea. I'm a Phil fan.

    he wasn't talking about highway 1 but the road they turned right onto.....AND he was right there isn't a shoulder on that road. yes, we have a right to the road just like any other vehicle but the road is very narrow.
    Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sufficiently familar with the area/route to recognize where they turned off PCH and detoured along some rural side road. But, it looked very bikable.

    maybe you shouldn't be on a such witch hunt.
    Well, a witch hunt implies I'm after certain people. I'm not. I will admit that I'm on a notion hunt - the notion that cyclists should or must stay out of the way of same direction motor traffic. And whenever I hear that notion being reinforced, it does catch my ear. And when it's on national TV during coverage of a cycling event, it really irks me.

    How can we expect cycling-ignorant motorists to treat us respectfully on roads like that when guys like Phil Liggett are telling everyone we don't belong on roads like that?

    Edit: Is it any wonder that cycling-ignorant motorists treat us disrespectfully, as if we're doing something wrong for just being in the road, when guys like Phil Liggett are basically saying we're doing something wrong for just choosing to ride there?

    Doesn't this bother anyone else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    How can we expect cycling-ignorant motorists to treat us respectfully on roads like that when guys like Phil Liggett are telling everyone we don't belong on roads like that?
    I think from the standpoint of liability, the sponsors are hoping somebody doesn't go out and get killed by a car imitating the Tour riders. So they say "Don't try this at home, kids."

  22. #22
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    you think a lot of cycling ignorant motorists were tuned into the tour de california do ya now mr head ?

    I surmise Phil Ligget was cautioning all those not yet steely eyed lane grabbers that this road is not bicycle friendly, to the "I think I'm a pro-class bike racer" wannabees, and his comments aroused someones' ire to the extent of posting his disaproval by a vehicular dogmatists.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    That doesn't mean it's a safe route.

    EDIT: What I mean is, if it's the only north-south route, AND it doesn't safely accommodate both bikes and cars, then safe accommodation of both should be a priority for CalTrans. Steely-eyed alpha dog stare downs aren't what I mean by "safe accommodation."
    I've ridden on PCH from Carmel, through Big Sur and quite a ways south. I've also driven there many times. Many sections are narrow with no shoulder. On one road trip, I talked to a CHP officer about cycling there. He couldn't say enough about how safe he felt it was for bicyclists there.

    Cyclists don't need a shoulder in order to be safely accomodated. They are safely accomodated without a shoulder. Is a shoulder preferable? Sure, of course. But it is not required for cycling to be safe, and its absence is not grounds for telling cyclists to not ride there.

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    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    And whenever I hear that notion being reinforced, it does catch my ear. And when it's on national TV during coverage of a cycling event, it really irks me.

    How can we expect cycling-ignorant motorists to treat us respectfully on roads like that when guys like Phil Liggett are telling everyone we don't belong on roads like that?
    ...
    Doesn't this bother anyone else?
    Relax! Phil Liggett is talking to almost nobody but dyed in the wool bicycle racing fans on a network that the regulars (hunters and fisherman and other outdoor sportsmen) abandon when cycling is featured.

    Like a tree falling in the forest, no "cycling-ignorant motorists" heard him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    They are safely accomodated without a shoulder.
    Oh really? How's that?

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