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  1. #1
    Senior Member FlyingAnchor's Avatar
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    Siping? Can it be done?

    I found this at a major tire chain and wondered if it has ever been done to a bicycle tire and what effect it may have had. Do you think it is viable for us?

    http://www.lesschwab.com/siping.asp

    Discuss.
    Steven

  2. #2
    lunatic fringe Dogbait's Avatar
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    Sounds like free beef to me.
    Here is what Sheldon Brown says about tread on bike tires (tyres).

  3. #3
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    As I understand it, sipping has two purposes. 1) to allow water to escape from under the tire on a microscale level (as opposed to the macroscale, or bulk level with the tire treads), and 2) to keep heat from building up inside the tread.

    Bike tires, as far as I know, have neither one of these problems. The tire is curved, so water has no trouble escaping from under the tire, even on the microscale level, and the principle wear mechanism is from friction rather than from heat, as a bike tire tread is much softer than a car tire's.

    So I don't think that sipping will help with bike tires.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  4. #4
    Electrical Hazard
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    I think if the tires were siped for for/aft traction, then they might help a bit on ice.. but at all other times, the rubber would feel squirmy. Also the wear rate would really increase.

  5. #5
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Everything that they claim is an issue for care tires doesn't apply to bike tires. Not even a little bit. Sounds like a very nice scam to punch a few useless holes in a tire. But hey, just send my your tires, and I will sipe them for the low low price of $29.99. I have a set of exacto knives just sitting in the case.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  6. #6
    G60
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    Senior Member G60's Avatar
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    that's a bunch of bullcrap to cheat people out of their money.

    it doesn't have any benefit (despite the marketing claims) for car tires, much less any bicycle tire.

    most car tires already have siping in the tread or have other design traits to specifically give "Improved Braking!" "Better Traction!" and "Smoother Ride!"

    manufacturers spend a ton of money making sure of this. they put alot of reasearch into which tread and compound designs give the best combination of braking, traction and smooth ride. you can't excel in all three! a tire with great traction and breaking will have a harsh, noisy ride with decreased life. a tire with great comfort, low noise and long treadwear will suffer in the braking and handling department.

    the only thing aftermarket siping will do to your tires is make them overheat. contrary to Les Schwab's BS claim, putting a thousand tiny cuts in your tires creates much more friction, and in turn, overheating.

    let the tire manufacturers do their job (surprisingly, they actually know what they're doing!), become educated and put these snake oil vendors out of business. this siping belongs with Slick 50, The Tornado and the Gas Saving Pill.

    it's just another marketing ploy these chain auto-care stores come up with to make more money off a customers' ignorance.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by G60
    this siping belongs with...The Tornado
    But the old granny in her Geo Metro got a speeding ticket using it. It MUST add horsepower

    (Yes, I admit it. I can't help but watch infomercials sometimes)

  8. #8
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Gas Saving Pill.
    Wait! There's a gas saving pill? Oh, yes here it is.

    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  9. #9
    Electrical Hazard
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    Siping WAS common practice for tireshops back in the day (when I was a kid), ie before tires were modeled and computer simulated blah blah..and it is still very useful for truckers running retreads. In fact, the only tire shops around here that do siping, are the same ones that sell tires for commercial trucks.

    Also, lots of 4x4 enthusiasts will sipe their blocky mud tires for rock crawling.

  10. #10
    Senior Member FlyingAnchor's Avatar
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    Well glad I never really thought of doing this, I just was surfing and saw that ad.
    So, what are the odds of the Mets winning the pennant this year?
    Steven

  11. #11
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingAnchor
    Well glad I never really thought of doing this, I just was surfing and saw that ad.
    So, what are the odds of the Mets winning the pennant this year?
    Steven

    slim to none. Ryan Howard and Chase Utley and a combined 95 homeruns will take the Phillies to victory!
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  12. #12
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady
    slim to none. Ryan Howard and Chase Utley and a combined 95 homeruns will take the Phillies to victory!
    Or in other words, about the same as the Toronto Maple Leafs winning the Stanley Cup....

  13. #13
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    BTW Les Schwab is actually a very large PNW regional tire manufacturer, distributor and dealer, based in Prineville, Oregon. And ain't it the American way to try and sell the public something they don't really need?

  14. #14
    Long haired freak. wethepeople's Avatar
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    I sipe the tires on my truck. Say what you will whether or not you think it works, I don't care because I know it does.

    I'm not sure it would work on cars, and I know for certain it wont work on bikes but for my truck that weighs around two tonnes, and is pushed over boulders, up large loose hills and through creeks/ponds and mud bogs it is a great thing.

    "the bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began...there was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land."


  15. #15
    Banned
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    if bike tires don't hydroplane, why did Ullrich skid out in the final TT in the '03 Tour?

  16. #16
    as I used to be NotAsFat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    if bike tires don't hydroplane, why did Ullrich skid out in the final TT in the '03 Tour?
    Uh, because the inertia of his fat ass trying to continue moving in a straight line was sufficient to overcome his tires' grip on the pavement?
    Starve a terrorist - ride a bike to work. It's not just good for the environment, it's good for civilization.

    My new blog is No Pinch Flats.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    if bike tires don't hydroplane, why did Ullrich skid out in the final TT in the '03 Tour?
    The road was slick from rain; not the same. Hydroplaning is different; it's when a bulk of water gets trapped between the tire and the road and there is no contact between the tire and the road. Cars get this because the tire is wide with flat treads. At high speeds (>~50mph), water gets trapped under the treads and lifts the tire off the road. It happens to cars on freeways a lot. Bike tires are round in profile and so intrinsically forces water out from under the tire, and further more, they don't very often get up to speeds great enough to cause hydroplaning.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  18. #18
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    The road was slick from rain; not the same. Hydroplaning is different; it's when a bulk of water gets trapped between the tire and the road and there is no contact between the tire and the road. Cars get this because the tire is wide with flat treads. At high speeds (>~50mph), water gets trapped under the treads and lifts the tire off the road. It happens to cars on freeways a lot. Bike tires are round in profile and so intrinsically forces water out from under the tire, and further more, they don't very often get up to speeds great enough to cause hydroplaning.

    Because of the shape and size of a bike tire, you need to be going over 175 mph for it to hydroplane. It is a non-issue for bikes.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  19. #19
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady
    Because of the shape and size of a bike tire, you need to be going over 175 mph for it to hydroplane. It is a non-issue for bikes.
    Man... I do that every day on my commute...
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  20. #20
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    Man... I do that every day on my commute...

    Yeah, me too. But since my handling skills are so spectacular it isn't an issue for me.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

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