Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50
  1. #1
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Long honk the sequel

    Some here may remember my posting of a video of a 17sec honk.

    Well I got a 13s honk today. Here is the situation:
    A 35mph school zone two same direction lanes w/NOL. 11:40am, traffic relatively light. First mile down this road all drivers as usual had no problem seeing me well in advance and merging a hundred feet or more before me into adjacent lane to pass.

    Then a JAM enters the scene. Doesn't merge. Comes up behind me and tailgates and begins honking (note in video the honk starts just as passing the "End School Zone" sign) SL is now 40mph. I am traveling at 25-26mph. I give slow signal, I look back, etc.

    Road widens a bit just after the side street, here I often merge right to allow lane sharing for careful drivers passing (it is still narrower than a 14' WOL) I would have merge right far sooner if motorist had treated me with respect. But how can I trust a motorist to safely share lane if they treat me so poorly?

    Then the fun begins, the JAM passes and slows to 20mph, then 15. I follow and holler a bit at them. They holler to get of the road or some such nonesense. They speed up and just clear a light before it turns red (maybe they didn't want to 'discuss' the issue with me )

    youtube Q1PWNBaRN1M - Long Honk Two

    A few applicable quotes from a different thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Motorist vigilantism is wrong no matter whether you are in the wrong or in the right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    Why is it up to the BICYCLIST to "challenge" drivers' misunderstandings? Why can't SOCIETY reeducate drivers about cyclists' rights to the road as well. Like Al mentions, any upset driver makes it 'all about them' anyway, a cyclist 'in the way' is going to be 'in the way' regardless of any conversation you can have with them.

    States, municipalities, bike advocacy groups, cities could by and large do a MUCH better job at educating drivers 'en masse' that bikes are allowed to use the full lane, etc...

    Al
    Last edited by noisebeam; 03-06-07 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    West Michigan
    My Bikes
    Old Giant Rincon
    Posts
    1,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    grrrrrr....Arizone plate CRZ60? That driver is in need of some adjustment.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  3. #3
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    grrrrrr....Arizone plate CRZ60? That driver is in need of some adjustment.
    I want to call it in, but last time I did for the 17s honk the officer told me that since 'nothing' happened they couldn't do anything.
    The video evidence doesn't quite fall under legal definition of agressive driving does it?
    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS

    Al

  4. #4
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    West Michigan
    My Bikes
    Old Giant Rincon
    Posts
    1,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think it would. My response to this would fall under the category of a "creative enforcement solution". He did break the law of using his sounding device when no apparent emergency presented itself. In MI I would use something like that anyway. I think I could also articulate that he was guilty of "careless driving".

    A person who operates a vehicle upon a highway or a frozen public lake, stream, or pond or other place open to the general public including an area designated for the parking of vehicles in a careless or negligent manner likely to endanger any person or property, but without wantonness or recklessness, is responsible for a civil infraction.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  5. #5
    Designated Drinker Wulfheir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Calgary
    My Bikes
    '04 Kona Fire Mountain
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In Alberta, the argument would be if the 13s was reasonable or not.

    RSA 1980 cH-7 s44
    Other Equipment
    Horn, etc.
    45(1) Every motor vehicle, motor cycle, moped, power bicycle
    and bicycle shall be equipped with an adequate horn, gong or bell
    and it shall be kept in good working order and shall be sounded
    whenever it is reasonably necessary to warn persons on or
    approaching the highway in the vicinity of the vehicle or motor
    cycle, moped, power bicycle or bicycle.
    (2) No person having the control of a motor vehicle, motor cycle,
    moped, power bicycle or bicycle shall use the horn, gong, bell or
    other signalling device on it except for the purpose of giving notice
    to persons on or approaching the highway in the vicinity of the
    motor vehicle, motor cycle, moped, power bicycle or bicycle of the
    approach of the vehicle, and in so doing shall not make any more
    noise than is reasonably necessary for the purpose of giving the
    warning.
    My Bike Journal Profile

    Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called EVERYONE and they meet at the PUB!

  6. #6
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All I can hear is road and wind noise... no honking (but I believe you!)

  7. #7
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    All I can hear is road and wind noise... no honking (but I believe you!)
    It starts a bit later into the video. Can you see the "End School Zone" sign? One can't read it in the video, but one can recognize it. The honking starts there. I can hear it (perhaps faintly) over the wind/road noise.
    Al

  8. #8
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ok, I heard it this time. It is pretty faint.

    Right before the JAM appears, it looks like you swerve right a bit... is that due to a close pass from him?

  9. #9
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    ok, I heard it this time. It is pretty faint.

    Right before the JAM appears, it looks like you swerve right a bit... is that due to a close pass from him?
    Thats right. I watch in mirror and when they started a pass I moved right to ensure good passing clearance. I may have had it without, but since I can give more room, why not? Thats one reason not to curb hug.

    (I don't know why it was faint, other times I've captured honks from directly behind me they were louder and this vehicle was just as close, maybe the road/wind noise was just louder this time)

    Al

  10. #10
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Towson, MD
    My Bikes
    2001 Look KG 241, 1989 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp, 1986 Gatane Performanc
    Posts
    4,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Al, all I hear is noise and you yelling 'you have a problem.....'

    You need a better line like 'F*** off D*** head'...works for me.

  11. #11
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by galen_52657
    You need a better line like 'F*** off D*** head'...works for me.
    Believe me I know. I always think of better things to say after. Brain isn't good at verbal communication while riding.
    Al

  12. #12
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    Road widens a bit just after the side street, here I often merge right to allow lane sharing for careful drivers passing (it is still narrower than a 14' WOL)
    Here is an example in the exact same location of me merging right where the lane widens a bit to help let motorist pass. In this case the motorist choose not to pass, but gave a honk. Then they passed and while doing so flipped me off. Thats how I know the honk was one of annoyance vs. a friendly one to let me know they were going to pass.

    youtube TrH2HSHKB-Y - Merge right, apparently not enough, honk

    Al

  13. #13
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Still in Santa Barbara
    My Bikes
    Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
    Posts
    4,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Motorist vigilantism. Still wrong. Although, in some way, you did a little bit of street justice yourself by not pulling over sooner just because he wasn't polite to you. But I don't blame you one bit.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  14. #14
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Motorist vigilantism. Still wrong. Although, in some way, you did a little bit of street justice yourself by not pulling over sooner just because he wasn't polite to you. But I don't blame you one bit.
    So in that brief moment was I taking the lane for political vs. practial reasons?

    (My answer is no as moving too far right would put me at risk given the anti-cyclist and aggressive (extended honkin) behavior first shown by the motorist it would be risky to assume they would give safe passing clearance, hence leaving a bit of evasion room was the safe thing to do and in fact I used it when they started to overtake. Also see the 2nd video I posted where I clearly and firmly move right when the lane widened to encourage lane sharing and was willing to tollerate a close pass, even then the motorist choose not to pass and honked instead - the point being that that motorist still considered unsafe to pass. The only way a motorist can safely pass on this road is if they merge at least partly into the adjacent lane.)

    Al

  15. #15
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Proof narrow lanes do not consistently provide the illusions of cyclists' parity with other vehicles.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  16. #16
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
    Posts
    2,967
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    what a jerk that guy was...

    nice wide sidewalk to your right. Nobody on it. just sayin'.
    Last edited by rando; 03-07-07 at 08:45 AM.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  17. #17
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    Proof narrow lanes do not consistently provide the illusions of cyclists' parity with other vehicles.
    Sure, but was anyone looking for this proof? Does anyone think otherwise? (although there was parity in the sense that I could command full use of lane just as motorists do, also if I had a horn I could have treated the driver just as he did to me after he slowed )

    More so its proof that there are folks who have graduated with honors from D*** head school.

    The city long term plans include adding a BL to this road, targeted for 2030 (I guess they have to add them and traffic calming to 25mph residential streets first ). A WOL or an additional unrestricted use lane would work for me (with same traffic volumes)

    After the first time I got an extended honk on this road I asked the city cycling rep. if a 'share the road' sign could be put here. There were some left in storage and one was placed about 1mi back from where this occured. Unfortunately its the type of STR sign that shows a cyclist riding in the gutter being passed with about 1' of clearance, so it could hurt more than help.

    Al

  18. #18
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,933
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    nice wide sidewalk to your right. Nobody on it. just sayin'.
    Ummm, what about the vehicles entering from the side street at about 0:20 and again 1:10?

    By the way you sound more like the jerk motorists I occasionally encounter here vs. a cycling advocate, no personal offense as I know you are not a jerk.

    Al

  19. #19
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
    Posts
    2,967
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sidewalks have their own set of problems, I know. I avoid confrontations like these by not riding on these types of streets. good for you for trying to do the right thing.
    Last edited by rando; 03-07-07 at 08:46 AM.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  20. #20
    cyclepath daredevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    "The Last Best Place"
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek Pilot 5.0, 2001 Specialized Sirrus Pro, Kona Lava Dome, Raleigh hardtail converted to commuter, 87 Takara steel road bike, 2008 Trek Soho
    Posts
    3,552
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    Ummm, what about the vehicles entering from the side street at about 0:20 and again 1:10?

    By the way you sound more like the jerk motorists I occasionally encounter here vs. a cycling advocate, no personal offense as I know you are not a jerk.

    Al
    I found his statement curious as well. Perhaps he was just kidding.

    edit: oops, already explained.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Without music, life would be a mistake."
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche

  21. #21
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Still in Santa Barbara
    My Bikes
    Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
    Posts
    4,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    So in that brief moment was I taking the lane for political vs. practial reasons?

    Al
    I don't know what you were doing, but this is what you said you were doing:
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    I would have merge right far sooner if motorist had treated me with respect.
    Sounds like a tad of street justice to me. Just a tad, though.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  22. #22
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,686
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    It starts a bit later into the video. Can you see the "End School Zone" sign? One can't read it in the video, but one can recognize it. The honking starts there. I can hear it (perhaps faintly) over the wind/road noise.
    Al
    Try to recall that HH has trained himself to ignore honking... therefore he may find it difficult to hear a motorist "aggressively" honking.

    Of course some may not consider 13 seconds to be an aggressive honk.

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,686
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    sidewalks have their own set of problems, I know. I avoid confrontations like these by not riding on these types of streets. good for you for trying to do the right thing.
    Of course you assume that other streets are available. Often they are NOT.

  24. #24
    The quieter you become... Falkon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    My Bikes
    1973 Raleigh Superbe, 2006 Trek 4300 with no original parts, 1984 Ciocc, Custom Keith Anderson
    Posts
    1,283
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Where is that camera mounted? And do you have a campy hub, because that cassette body is LOUD.
    Quote Originally Posted by TechKnowGN
    San Jose has to be the most boring place I've ever been. And I live in Ohio.

  25. #25
    Senior Member wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Crystal MN
    Posts
    2,147
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is one of those sidewalk riders .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7zoOBqsJzQ

    I guess he got a bit of sidewalk justice.

    I am moving to Tempe. Hopefully I won't be showing up in NBs tube of him dropping me.

    Rando 25mph on a sidewalk wow. I will say those wide sidewalks are great for rollerblades.
    My Youtube Cycling Videos Here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •