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  1. #1
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    3/15/2007 - Please read before posting in any A&S thread!

    A&S has turned into the new P&R, and the moderation queue is being overrun by complaints. If you cannot refrain from personal attacks, petty arguments, and constant bickering over cycling technique, IT WILL BE CLOSED.

    Yes, if you cannot respect each other, the entire A&S forum will be shut down so you can all go out for some fresh air and cool off a bit.

    Thank you for your cooperation.

  2. #2
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    it sure would be nice to see some decorum in A&S

  3. #3
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    It appears we have a solution. It will be announced shortly.

  4. #4
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker
    it sure would be nice to see some decorum in A&S


    The respectfulness guideline (see below), in particular, is ignored, and the ignoring of it appears to be tolerated. Because this behavior by a few of the regulars has been tolerated (except for the closing of a few threads here and there, which is likely to reward the trouble-makers more than discourage them), disrespectful discourse has been apparently accepted as the "norm" by some newer members.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Guidelines
    We expect our members to show respect for others. Respecting their person, their views, their time and their opinions, and their belief systems ... even if you disagree with them.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    A&S has turned into the new P&R,

    You give A&S too much credit. At least over in P&R they discuss relevant P&R issues. A&S is little more than a circus.

    -D

  6. #6
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Overall, everyone seems to be much better at showing respect today.

  7. #7
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Overall, everyone seems to be much better at showing respect today.

    Yep. Much better, overall.

  8. #8
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    I find your appearance sore to my eye and you emit a foul odor.

  9. #9
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    I find your appearance sore to my eye and you emit a foul odor.

    LOL !!!!!!
    Florida Velodrome Association.
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    CAT-2. Road Bike: 2011 Specialized Allez SRAM Apex. .. and yes, I am vegan.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    I find your appearance sore to my eye and you emit a foul odor.
    Put the mirror down.

  11. #11
    N_C
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    Banned. N_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    A&S has turned into the new P&R, and the moderation queue is being overrun by complaints. If you cannot refrain from personal attacks, petty arguments, and constant bickering over cycling technique, IT WILL BE CLOSED.

    Yes, if you cannot respect each other, the entire A&S forum will be shut down so you can all go out for some fresh air and cool off a bit.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
    You can't be serious. I mean I understand about the personal attacks, et al, & not dragging religion into this. Though I don't think that has happened yet. But how do we not debate A&S topics with out bringing politics into it? Especially when it is politicians who make dumb decisions relating to cycling topics.

    I also think some of the complainers probably need to lighten up a bit. What's that line from that movie? "Lighten up Frances."

    I can't believe this thread is a sticky. I hope it is removed soon.

    BTW what has Joe said about this? Isn't he the one who has the final decision on things like this?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    You can't be serious. I mean I understand about the personal attacks, et al, & not dragging religion into this. Though I don't think that has happened yet. But how do we not debate A&S topics with out bringing politics into it? Especially when it is politicians who make dumb decisions relating to cycling topics.

    I also think some of the complainers probably need to lighten up a bit. What's that line from that movie? "Lighten up Frances."

    I can't believe this thread is a sticky. I hope it is removed soon.

    BTW what has Joe said about this? Isn't he the one who has the final decision on things like this?
    I'm very serious. Look at it from the perspective of a non-member who visits to the forums and is looking to research advocacy and safety issues. What do they see? A handful of members bickering, calling each other names, hijacking threads with VC arguments, and generally being disrespectful to each other's opinions.

    Joe and I discussed this, and he was more than happy to have me lock A&S for a few days. But that would not be a long term solution. So look for a change here soon.

  13. #13
    bragi bragi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    A&S has turned into the new P&R, and the moderation queue is being overrun by complaints. If you cannot refrain from personal attacks, petty arguments, and constant bickering over cycling technique, IT WILL BE CLOSED.

    Yes, if you cannot respect each other, the entire A&S forum will be shut down so you can all go out for some fresh air and cool off a bit.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
    I agree that a little more civility, and actual information and/or ideas, are in order. (I'm sorry to admit I've been less than totally mature at times myself lately.) But what's your long-term solution? I'm sincerely curious about this. The bickering surrounding Forester's ideas appear to be the one area where the gloves come off most frequently; perhaps it would be most effective to focus on a limited number of posters whose behavior is particularly inflammatory, or simply move VC-related threads to their own forum.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

  14. #14
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    there needs to be threads where people can get info or links to basic info and not have to wade through the bike lane arguments and other srgumets to try and get their questions answered.... thanks Mods for all you do.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  15. #15
    Dubito ergo sum. patc's Avatar
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    There have been issues on A&S since I joined BF.net two years ago. Shutting down the forum won't solve the problem (though it may give the mods a much needed break). You need to either get rid of the problem users, or discipline problem users in a way that is effective and visible.

    Locking threads and/or removing problem posts does not tell anyone *exactly* what behavior was out of line, and that such behavior won't be tolerated. Locking threads (or the forum) punishes all contributors for the actions of a few, while allowing the guilty to continue misbehaving in other threads.

    I know many will say that I just can't stand to have people disagree with me - so be it. Truth is that there are both users I do and do not agree with but still think are problem users. Instead of showing contempt to all A&S posters by locking threads (or the forum), these problem people and problem behaviors need to be dealt with. Current policies are only enabling the behavior.

    I am not posting this to be contrary. I have been frustrated by the inability to discuss anything of meaning in the A&S forum. Due to a change in government, my city may never adopt its "Draft Cycling Master Plan", may drop Can-Bike classes, see its cycling advocacy group shut down, and further decrease public consultation on transport issues. I have no intention of discussing any of these thing on A&S as it stands.

  16. #16
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    Put the mirror down.
    You have offended my honour!

  17. #17
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    I have created what I hope will be at least a partial solution. Feedback is certainly appreciated.

  18. #18
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    I have created what I hope will be at least a partial solution. Feedback is certainly appreciated.
    Seems fine with me. Recommend that you also put any ghoulish gloating/speculating over deaths of cyclists due to alleged improper technique be put in this subforum also.

  19. #19
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    I have created what I hope will be at least a partial solution. Feedback is certainly appreciated.
    Looks good to me Brian! Now they can argue VC to their hearts content!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  20. #20
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    I stopped coming to BF several months ago simply because of all the BS--mostly between 3 or 4 people who constantly dominate every thread with garbage that had very little to do with the original post. I came back today to see if anything was different, and this is the first post I read....I don't believe that shutting down A&S would serve any purpose other than to provide fodder for some people when it was restored (i.e., "look what you did--you got it shut down!----"no, you did!" and so on). I do think, however, that if you admonish repeat offenders with a lockout, for a week, or a month, that it might settle things down some. I think most people who have frequented A&S in the past would be in agreement that it is only a few who bring the garbage. Thanks for your time as mod.'s, it's one of those very under-appreciated jobs.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Bruce Rosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    I have created what I hope will be at least a partial solution. Feedback is certainly appreciated.
    How do the moderators envision the new sub-forum being used?

  22. #22
    Dubito ergo sum. patc's Avatar
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    So, is VC discussion banned from A&S? Is there to be a policy statement on this at the top of the forum? If the plan is simply to move all VC threads to the new sub-forums, as such threads emmerge/degenerate, that seems like a lot of work for the mods.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Bruce Rosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patc
    So, is VC discussion banned from A&S?
    And if it is, is VC-contrary discussion also banned?

  24. #24
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    I have created what I hope will be at least a partial solution. Feedback is certainly appreciated.
    Thanks! I always said you had more brains and wisdom than looks.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  25. #25
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Rosar
    And if it is, is VC-contrary discussion also banned?

    Good question.

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