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  1. #1
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    An idea for defense against hostile motorists

    This is a carbon fiber core, aluminum 7050 baseball bat. It is light as all get out. Maybe slightlier heavier than a large water bottle as one cyclist noted. Alittle duct tape will mount a water cage to the base of your down tube. Make sure you can bend that water cage to fit. I'd stick with T-ball sized bats. They won't protrude so much past the headset that they will interfere with your turning. It's good to even pull it out and wield it behind your back for protection from a tailgating motorist who may decide to bump you.
    www.indymedia.org

  2. #2
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    Fight or flight, I always try to avoid situations. The worst was today when I was riding alone on my new bike in the country and a car full of punks passed me waving gang signs and screaming at me. I ignored them but kept my eye on them (they were going in the opposite direction) and when they turned around I pedaled like mad to a fortunately nearby intersection, and I hid in the cotton feilds. I stayed there for about 15 minutes while they drove up and down the roads looking for me. My wife says I need to carry a phone, which would have been no real help. I am seriously considering getting a ******. Sad but true.

  3. #3
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Rednecks are evil and dangerous. I don't know if a ****** would really be any help against that lot either.

    Chris
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  4. #4
    Those that can do, do do
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    Originally posted by Chris L
    Rednecks are evil and dangerous. I don't know if a ****** would really be any help against that lot either.

    Chris
    No help? The only reason a ****** wouldn't be any help is if you couldn't aim or use it properly. Sad that we have digressed to this level. Sounds like they were a pretty agressive lot to hunt you as they did. Sometimes you have no choice but to get as ugly as they are. If you shoot, shoot straight.
    JAPH

  5. #5
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like the run-away-and-hide method worked reasonably well, and no-one got shot.

    This is a paraphrase of something I read somewhere (I think in one of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books)

    Realising that discretion being the better part of valour, and cowardice being the better part of discretion, he valiantly hid in the cotton field.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  6. #6
    Those that can do, do do
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    Originally posted by Allister
    Sounds to me like the run-away-and-hide method worked reasonably well...
    Well yeah, but do we really want to spend our lives running away and hiding from people? Seems to me that there is a point that it has to stop.

    Hopefully no one will be shot but it is always the aggressor's choice as to whether they get shot. Simple solution: Don't be the aggressor.
    JAPH

  7. #7
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    A ****** sounds great.

    That is, unless, the Rednecks are sporting one or more shotguns.

    Unfortunately, I read a true account of a cyclist who survived being shot by Rednecks when he pulled out his ******.

    Don't give anyone a reason to kill you. Get a description of their car and license, and that cell phone to call it in. Yes, the image of you calling on your cell phone may be more effective than whipping out a ******. For all they know, a police cruiser could be very near.

    Some folks have discovered that, even with a very fast car, it's hard to outrun police radios and computers.

  8. #8
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bikideshi
    This is a carbon fiber core, aluminum 7050 baseball bat...It's good to even pull it out and wield it behind your back for protection from a tailgating motorist who may decide to bump you.
    I can't imagine a baseball bat protecting me from a motor vehicle who's driver has "decided to bump me." I think I would lose that one.

    What kind of advice is this?

  9. #9
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Pete Clark
    A ****** sounds great.

    That is, unless, the Rednecks are sporting one or more shotguns.

    Don't give anyone a reason to kill you. Get a description of their car and license, and that cell phone to call it in. Yes, the image of you calling on your cell phone may be more effective than whipping out a ******. For all they know, a police cruiser could be very near.
    Pete is absolutely correct.

    Having a *** and knowing how to use it is only 10% of a *** being effective for self-defense. Having the will to actually aim and pull the trigger with potentially deadly results is the other 90%. This is difficult to do without hesitation.

    Let's say this gang drove by and made gang gestures and swore and threatened. Exactly when would it appropriate to take out a ****** and start shooting? When the motorists passed him? While the cyclist is waiting in the weeds watching the motorists drive back and forth?

    In my opinion, a firearm is not a good choice of weapons because it gives so few defensive options, mainly being deadly force.
    Mike

  10. #10
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    Originally posted by HardBall

    Well yeah, but do we really want to spend our lives running away and hiding from people? Seems to me that there is a point that it has to stop.
    'Spend our lives'?? Exactly how often does this situation arise in your neck of the woods? Seems to me that this event was noteworthy at least partly because of it's rarity. It's certainly never happened to me, and I've never found myself in a situation where I've felt the need to run and hide (nor pull a *** on anyone for that matter - as tempting as it may seem at times).

    If such an emergency arises running away seems like a reasonably effective and perfectly reasonable technique, especially combined with a phone call to the local constabulary with the car's license plate number and a description of the occupants.

    Simple solution: Don't be the aggressor.
    Good advice.

    Fighting fire with fire only makes a bigger fire.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  11. #11
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Originally posted by HardBall
    Well yeah, but do we really want to spend our lives running away and hiding from people? Seems to me that there is a point that it has to stop.
    I'm sorry, but you don't end a fight by throwing another punch. I honestly think running away and hiding is the better option. What if the other guy's a better shot than you?

    Chris
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  12. #12
    It's only a hill. Weasel's Avatar
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    I think Pat was pretty clever. If he wasn't, he would probably now be eating through a straw in a hospital bed somewhere. Or worse!

    It really does not pay to retaliate especially if it is a car full of drunk or drug-pumped weirdos. For one, they outnumber you, and two, they are armed with a 2-ton car! Use your bike to make your escape - everytime. By this, you are being clever, not cowardly.

    :irritated + :irritated =
    :cool: + =

  13. #13
    Those that can do, do do
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    NO one said that Pat was being a coward, he is very smart for getting out of there.

    I am not advocating the reckless use of firearms. The use of deadly force has to absolutely positively be the choice of last resort. One would not start shooting over annoying behavior. Not even threats unless they were acted upon.

    I agree, trying to stay out of harms way and not escalate a situation is the best thing to do if you have that option.

    I got the impression from Pat's post that they were actively trying to hunt him down. This is more than annoying behavior, it borders on assault. This is a great deal more serious than your average redneck with a smart remark or rude gesture. What do you do if they find you? Is there always enough time for the authorities to come and rescue you? If they don't the US Supreme Court has ruled they are not responsible to protect an individual and can not be held liable if they don't.

    There are times when the options may be limited by the circumstances. It's better to be prepared than not.

    Through the years we have been taught by the media and government how to be good victims. It just gets on my nerves when we (the good guys) have to continually alter our lifestyles because of the establishment's inabillity to handle the problem.

    The most important question: When is defending one's self being the aggressor?
    JAPH

  14. #14
    It's only a hill. Weasel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by HardBall

    There are times when the options may be limited by the circumstances. It's better to be prepared than not.

    Through the years we have been taught by the media and government how to be good victims. It just gets on my nerves when we (the good guys) have to continually alter our lifestyles because of the establishment's inabillity to handle the problem.

    The most important question: When is defending one's self being the aggressor?
    A good, fair point.

    Someone once said,"Good guys don't hide". Which is perhaps why there are not that many around.

  15. #15
    Those that can do, do do
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    Originally posted by Weasel


    A good, fair point.

    Someone once said,"Good guys don't hide". Which is perhaps why there are not that many around.
    Sad but true! We just need to be careful out there and do what we have to do to avoid the idiots and rednecks.

    It's so refreshing to be able to have a conversation with differing views that doesn't disintegrate into a shouting match or flame war. Looking forward to many more.

    Imagine that, a bunch of adults playing together without fighting. Kudos to all!!

    Be Safe!!
    JAPH

  16. #16
    Chicago Cyclist ViciousCycle's Avatar
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    Even if one doesn't carry a baseball bat, a bicyclist often has a lot of tools close at hand that could be good for self-defense.

    I currently have a metal clip that hangs on the front strap of my backpack. I sometimes carry my heaviest u-lock on that clip. I can reach over and release my u-lock with one hand. A good solid u-lock can make a decent weapon, and it has the advantages of being a> legal and b> something that doesn't raise any eyebrows when a bicyclist carries one around with them.

    I carry my pepper spray in an empty pocket that I can get to with one hand. I deliberately don't keep it on my key ring. If I drop my pepper spray or have it knocked out of my hands, I don't want to lose my keys.

    If I weren't using either of the above, I might carry my tire pressure gauge in my pocket. It's made of solid metal and thus can function like a kuboton.

    The martial arts school that I go to has a street-survival orientation, but assumes that one will be on foot rather than, say, on a bike. But the bicycle adds so many variables into the mix (including, of course, the possibility of getting away quickly), that I half-seriously wonder if someone will ever tailor martial arts seminars to address the unique self-defense possibilities of bicyclists.
    Last edited by ViciousCycle; 08-24-01 at 07:09 AM.

  17. #17
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mike
    In my opinion, a firearm is not a good choice of weapons because it gives so few defensive options, mainly being deadly force.
    There is more to self-defense than using a firearm.

    Look at the history of warfare, and of the success of the human race in general. Sheer might is always overcome by intellect.


  18. #18
    Senior Member Palafo's Avatar
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    I've had a recent opportunity in our justice system to see a parade of people who stood their ground and got knives in the belly for their efforts.

  19. #19
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    I went out and rode on the same route where I had my adventure, because I had to prove to myself that it was a one in a million ocurrence. (And when you fall off the bike, the first thing to do is get back on) I don't like guns, so I got some pepper spray. The directions emphasized that a weapon is a last resort, so try to avoid problems by being aware of your surroundings ( that's what saved me) I appreciate everyone's concern, and hope that we all can enjoy our wonderful sport for many years to come.

  20. #20
    Chicago Cyclist ViciousCycle's Avatar
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    One of the messy things about using a ****** for self-defense is that you can end up being cast into the role of perpetrator rather than victim.

    You can imagine the testimony to police. "We were lost, and this local bicyclist looked like he knew the area, so we yelled out at him to get his attention to ask for directions. He didn't seem to hear us, so we turned around our car to ask him for directions. When we got out of our car, he pulled out a ***. And then without any provocation opened fire on..."

    You might know that this is a lie, and perhaps your lawyer might be able to convince a jury that this is a lie. But it's risky. Especially since a person with a *** against someone "unarmed" is often perceived as an aggressor.

    (Of course, the term "unarmed" is misleading, since a person doesn't need a weapon to cause you serious harm.)

  21. #21
    horizontally adapted bentrox!'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Allister
    Fighting fire with fire only makes a bigger fire.
    I'm with Allister and Chris L. Conflict-avoidance will let you live longer. Using firearms escalates a bad situation into a deadly one. Relying on the "security" of a *** makes it less likely you'll use other options when you perceive a threat. The dilemna of firearms usage, as pointed out by others, is that it's only effective with timely use - i.e., you must react and not think. If Pat O'Malley had been a competent shootist packing iron would running and hiding been first choice?
    Last edited by bentrox!; 08-25-01 at 02:33 PM.
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  22. #22
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Could a ****** really stop a car? I mean, if a psychopathic driver really decides they're going to take you down, would that really stop them? Personally, I think the best approach is to try not to provoke them into that sort of attack in the first place. Yes, I know a lot of them don't require provocation, but I'd rather worry about things I can control.

    Chris
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  23. #23
    Chi-Chi Monger *WildHare*'s Avatar
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    All this talk about pistols and bats! Has any of you ever had a *** pointed in your face? I seriously doubt it! Let me tell you this, it ain't no fun. It's not some ****ing little joke! When a stranger points a *** at you, do you think he's just trying to scare you? We are talking about killing someone! Talking about it as non chalantly as some of you have is pretty funny. You haven't got a clue...

    It's sad that Pat had to hide in a field but that is exactly what he had to do and it was the right thing to do. He's still alive because he used his brain. You kill to defend your family, your home, your freedom, not because somebody looked at you the wrong way. Someone is gonna argue that his freedom to use the road was violated and we can't live our lives in fear and on and on and on...Bull****! We don't live in fear from day to day. Isolated incidents are the wrong rationale to use for going out and getting a ***.

    Let's say he did pull out a *** and it scared them away. They would have been back in a heart beat truly hunting him down. If not that day, then the next or the next. Then you would be living in fear. Because ignorant little punks are just that. Ignorant! In their puny little minds they would be obligated to "retaliate" even though they were the aggressors in the first place. Pretty sad but true.

    I'm not an anti *** person by the way. I've had several and enjoyed using them in a recreational manner (skeet, targets, blowin' stuff up, etc..). It's what an idiot with a *** can do that bothers me. Though most of us are in the right frame of mind most of the time, there are those times when having a *** around is just plain scary. Someone is gonna get hurt or killed and it may be someone you love...

    Ah well..time to go for a ride
    Last edited by *WildHare*; 08-25-01 at 04:41 PM.
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  24. #24
    Senior Member s_boy's Avatar
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    If you do carry a ***, keep it concealed. DO NOT use it to threaten anyone, in hopes that it will scare them away.

    If you have to pull it out your situation should already be at the point that you are going to kill or maim to protect your's or another's life.

    Its your right to keep and bear arms for that purpose and thats what pistols are designed for.

    I have no need for anything like that where I live (eastern NC). If I did I would move or quit riding. A *** would not be an option in this scenario for me... although I own several.

    I hope you reported this incident to the police.
    if you don't belive in something... you'll fall for anything
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  25. #25
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    #1: carrying a concealed weapon is a FELONY, unless you have a federal permit to do so. These permits are typically given only to police, bodyguards, etc.
    #2: What are you going to shoot? The BACK of the idiot after he hits you? That is called MANSLAUGHTER, another felony.
    #3: If a ****** is chambered, it can DISCHARGE ACCIDENTALLY!
    This is called RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, which is also a felony.
    #4: Bats weigh too much, and are too large to carry.
    #5: If you need protection, a small can of pepper spray is the most effective weapon you can carry, and has the least chance of getting you into trouble for doing something stupid.
    Unless you are planning on getting into a rumble, leave the weaponry at home!!
    Je vais à vélo, donc je suis!

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