closetbiker

It's hard to say, but I'd have to go with I-Like-To-Bike on this one. Maybe he just didn't feel like wearing it for that moment. It just wasn't important enough for him. Maybe he put it on later, maybe he wore it earlier. maybe the clasp or strap had a problem. Maybe he fell earlier, cracked the thing and was bringing it home.

Blue Order

I hope I can break myself of that natural tendency. First I went over the bars, landed on a wrist, and sprained (or broke) my wrist. Within a week, I was knocked off my feet while sparring at my kwoon, and landed on, yep, my other wrist and sprained (or broke) that wrist. Both wrists in bandages for a l-o-n-g time afterwards.

I think that concussion can't be prevented by helmets-- head injuries (not lacerations) can, apparently, at least in low speed falls. Don't ask me what the difference is, I don't know. I just know that I need my head, and I need my brain.

That's one of the more amusing anti-helmet arguments I've seen people make: "I wear my helmet when I'm going fast, but when I'm riding slow, at 12 mph, I don't see the need for it."

Obviously somebody who doesn't understand helmets.

Blue Order

Well, if you want to make the argument that helmets are intended to protect against head injuries in high speed crashes, rather than low speed crashes, do step up.

Blue Order

Nope. I totally agree with that. What I was laughing at are the cyclists who refuse to wear a helmet when cycling at low speeds-- exactly the conditions under which a helmet is designed to protect their head, but will wear one when cycling at high speeds-- exactly the conditions under which a helmet is not designed to protect their head.

CB HI

Yeah, no judgemental attitude there!

bragi

Ah, helmets. It's like religion: everyone has strong opinions one way or another, and no one is going to change anyone else's mind. In case anyone cares (I suspect not), I'm very skeptical that helmets will do any good at all in a serious accident, that is, an accident involving a motor vehicle. It's just a piece of styrofoam, fer chissakes. However, I personally always, always wear one, because it's a lot better than nothing, so what's the harm? If I see other adults riding without a helmet, though, I don't cluck my disapproval. It's their head, after all, not mine, and, let's be fair: people rode bikes in large numbers without helmets for almost 100 years, and the vast, vast majority of those people never hurt their heads at all. To this day, most casual cyclists in Europe don't wear helmets, and there's been no horrible epidemic of head injury deaths. You're far more likely to hurt your head in a car than you are on a bike. I'm even willing to bet that even most Tour de France cyclists wouldn't wear helmets, either, if they weren't being paid to do so. Bottom line: a helmet isn't a bad idea. But if you don't wear one, you'll very likely live to tell about it.

closetbiker

Ironic, no? Cycle helmets work best when not cycling.


even the rabidly pro-helmet site BHSI says a helmet can't prevent a concussion and if you look up the definition of a concussion, you'll find it's a low-level brain injury. If you need your brain, don't count on a helmet to save it. I believe the difference between a brain injury and a head injury is a head injury is a scraped chin, broken nose, fractured jaw, whereas a brain injury involves the brain being injured, and that's what we really don't want to happen.

I-Like-To-Bike

Hard to say? It's easy, Steve, just put your fingers together and type!

closetbiker

only hard to say why. It's easy to agree with your point!

Blue Order

+1

Blue Order

I don't think that's accurate. Helmets work best in low speed falls-- the kind of fall you'd have if you were just riding along slowly and made a mistake. The kinds of falls I've had. The kinds of falls that make up the vast, vast majority of cycling accidents.

I think "head injury" refers to something other than scrapes. People don't die from scrapes. People do die from head injuries. How that differs from concussion is something I haven't researched yet.

I-Like-To-Bike

Ya mean the kind of falls that rarely involve any serious head injury with or without a helmet? Those kinda falls?

Blue Order

Nope.

I mean the kind of falls in which roughly one-third of all accidents result in damage to the helmet, and of those, 69% have no corresponding head injury.

I meant those kind of falls.

Apnu

That I've seen, it appears to be a mixture of ages, bikes and riding styles. Except roadies. I can't think of a time where I've seen a roadie without a helmet.

But honestly, I wasn't paying attention to their ages. Just wondering why they had a helmet and didn't put it on.

I don't believe that I ever said that anybody has to wear a helmet. I did say I disagreed with the notion of not wearing a helmet, but that's my personal opinion and for that I've been lampooned as a safety nanny. I've never shouted at anyone about helmets. That notion was put in my mouth by at least one person in this thread. Its not like I'm standing on the corner pelting cyclists with helmets and safety vests.

I think a few of the anti-helmet camp jumped on this thread and misconstrued what I was talking about.

I wish people would calm down, I just wanted to talk about possessing a helmet on your person but not on your head. Why? Mainly because I think is unsafe to have something flopping around your handle bars or hanging off your back pack when you're riding on a busy MUP. Which my observations have occurred, interestingly enough I don't recall seeing anybody on the street during my commute riding this way. They either have them or don't -- that's it.

I figure if you're going to bother possessing a helmet while riding a bike you might as well just put it on your head at least its out of the way and doesn't distract your control of the bike. Or leave it at home.

There isn't. No judgements have been placed. I only said I disagreed with not wearing a helmet which is not a judgement, nor is it an argument. Furthermore I'm asking a question, and its not rhetorical at all -- you took it that way. So relax, you're reading too much into my comment.

Obviously I touched a nerve with the anti-helmet crowd, as I've already said. Relax a bit people, we can still have a rational discussion.

chipcom 

I don't look so bright wearing just one either!

closetbiker

in my province (that has an all-ages mandatory helmet law) I've seen all ages of people with them on bars, packs etc.

I figure they don't want to wear them but are told they have to. Police can not only give you a ticket for not wearing one but can force you off your bicycle and if you try to ride off without a helmet on after getting a ticket, they can seize your bicycle. Maybe one could take the helmet off the bars and put it on after getting a ticket so you can still ride. Later, out of site, they can take it off again.

closetbiker

that's what I think. (like it does any good)

Apnu

I wonder how mild concussions fit into this debate. I haven't seen anybody yet talk about them. (maybe I have missed it) Mild concussions can occur with a light fall, or collisions that don't have any immediate visible injury.

Take, for example, hockey players, they wear helmets, but often don't wear them properly. Those guys get knocked around frequently and often after games are found to have concussions -- even though they may have finished playing the game after a nasty check or fall into the boards. That's hockey, so there is expected violence when playing the game.

But just about any knock to the head with a solid object (say concrete from falling off a bike) can cause a mild concussion, I think we can all agree on that.Repeated concussions (severe or mild) can lead to brain damage and a greater risk of concussions the next time cranial trauma occurs.

So where do you guys stand on concussions (severe or mild) in cycling with or without helmets?

I-Like-To-Bike

Anyone who gets repeated concussions while riding should take up another activity.

I-Like-To-Bike

Oh, the kind of falls where the numbers and percentages are generated from a deep dark place and have a meaning/significance known only to yourself.

Blue Order

No, the kind of falls where the numbers are generated by real-world data. Unlike the content of your posts.

Blue Order

What we sorely need in this discussion is a medical professional to explain head trauma.

Apnu

I recall, here in the States, when motorocycle helmet laws started popping up everywhere (in the late 1980s I think) bikers got really pissed off by that. To this day, I occasionally see a biker, with helmet, and a sticker on the helmet stating that the law requires him to wear it.

So, I think you're probably right in that case. AFAIK, my state, Illinois, doesn't have mandatory helmet laws for bicycle riders. If we do, nobody pays attention to it. More than dealing with serious crimes, cops interested in parking tickets. They love them, and parking tickets generate hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue for the city every year. Traffic laws are, unless they're doing a sweep, the last thing on a cop's mind around here. And cycling laws are lower than that.

Apnu

The problem with that is, in the case of mild concussions, people sometimes don't know they've got one. They might think they just have a bump on the head. You can get repeated concussions and not know it.

There was another poster in this thread that said he'd been in a lot of accidents with with and with out a helmet. He might have had repeated concussions and not know it. Of course I don't know what each crash he had was about so I'm just guessing here. I bet you wouldn't suggest to him to quit biking because he's had a lot of accidents.

Plus here's another fact that hockey fans know. Once you've had a concussion, you're more susceptible to them. Take a look at Eric Lindros and his career with concussions. I'm sure a few of our Canadian members can vouch for this.

chipcom 

Look, the chances of head trauma are as high or higher in many typical pursuits other than cycling...like walking, driving a car, playing baseball, touch football, handball/raquetball, basketball, diving in a pool, taking a shower, climbing a ladder, working on a rooftop, surfing, jetskiing, driving a lawn tractor, etc....so why not just wear a helmet 24x7 if that is the worry that drives your life? I'm serious here...what is it about cycling that gives you this overwhelming, debilitating fear of head injury?