Another KILLED and backpackers don't care
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BUT, hey, I am learning and thinking a lot.
At other forums, I can say people are not cyclist or not serious about it. Here, that is not the case.
I am confident that I will learn a lot about whether or not I continue to outside of park paths and trails, and which side I ultimately fight.
That is one of greatest characteristics. I do look to see what is worth my efforts.
This thread is invaluable.
That is one of greatest characteristics. I do look to see what is worth my efforts.
At other forums, I can say people are not cyclist or not serious about it. Here, that is not the case.
I am confident that I will learn a lot about whether or not I continue to outside of park paths and trails, and which side I ultimately fight.
That is one of greatest characteristics. I do look to see what is worth my efforts.
This thread is invaluable.
That is one of greatest characteristics. I do look to see what is worth my efforts.
#52
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Bicyclists and motorcyclists alike face tougher odds because there aren't the passive safety devices that are available to car and truck drivers. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is anything other than an unfortunate and tragic accident. Since this likely would have been a minor fenderbender if another car was involved, we don't need to crucify the driver.
I think I completely disagree with each of those statements. That would make sense, given our different views.
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This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could not avoid the bike
I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.
Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could not avoid the bike
I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.
Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
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This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
Last edited by dobber; 07-30-07 at 04:26 AM.
#54
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This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could no avoid the bike
I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could no avoid the bike
I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.
Sadly, you're right.
Not that I don't think there's room for improvement....
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Are we supposed to start hating backpackers now, too?
Okay.
Okay.
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Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
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Originally Posted by Ky Venom
"I think I completely disagree with each of those statements. That would make sense, given our different views."
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BJ! DOn't go there......next thing we know, Federal regulations are going to require full body armor, enclosed roll cage, 6 axis 7 G restraint system, air bags and a crumple zone and the addition of nomex to the Lycra for fire safety and a light road bike will weigh 1500 pounds!
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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I think a post on another forum sums it up well.
Posted 29 July 2007 03:53 PM
This is terrible, the day these drivers respect bike riders is the day a family member of their own dies in the hands of a driver while on a bike.
This is terrible, the day these drivers respect bike riders is the day a family member of their own dies in the hands of a driver while on a bike.
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Tom, methinks you're joking about requiring passive safety devices for cyclists!
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Methinks you are right!
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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Bicyclists and motorcyclists alike face tougher odds because there aren't the passive safety devices that are available to car and truck drivers. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is anything other than an unfortunate and tragic accident. Since this likely would have been a minor fenderbender if another car was involved, we don't need to crucify the driver.
1) I feel cyclist face tougher odds because people do not follow the laws. I feel the equipment/devices point is a non-issue.
2) I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest that this is anything but an unfortunate and tragic accident. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is an unfortunate and tragic accident.
3) Since this likely would NOT have been a minor fenderbender, had it been another car was involved, we need to crucify the driver.
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Although we would have legs of steel after pedaling around on our half-ton bicycles for a couple months!
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I have come across a number of bridges where there is signage requiring cyclists "to dismount and use sidewalk". Me thinks as a lawsuit prevention! Though most bridges I have seen them on are narrow and on highways.
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This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could no avoid the bike
I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.
Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could no avoid the bike
I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.
Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
The only way that bike could not have been avoided was due to unsafe operation. There had to be extremely excessive speed, drugs/alcohol in use, and/or agressive driving (crowding) involved to result in this.
Thankfully, I trust my judgement more than law enforcement.
The legal system may investigate now that pressure is being applied.
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Hey Ky Venom, if you think you're angry now, check this out. Here in Oregon you can kill a law abiding cyclist while driving with a suspended license, carelessly driving and passing in a no passing zone. She paid a $1000.00 fine w/monthly installments, and no jail time. Links below, please read.
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/f...ington-county/
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/30/d...ds-no-contest/
I do understand your frustration. I live by the highest traveled two lane bridge in Oregon. Old and narrow. Recently rated a 2 on a scale of 100 for structural integrity. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side that is shared by peds and cyclists. Technically the bikes should be in the lane, but it is to narrow and unsafe. Some cyclists take the lane, but not most, because of the high traffic volume and narrow lanes it really is scary. Usually, it works. It's not following the letter of the law, but it is keeping cyclists alive. The bridge has so many problems of it's own, no dead cyclist will solve any of them.
Good luck with the advocacy, I think you'll learn that it can become quite contentious.
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/f...ington-county/
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/30/d...ds-no-contest/
I do understand your frustration. I live by the highest traveled two lane bridge in Oregon. Old and narrow. Recently rated a 2 on a scale of 100 for structural integrity. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side that is shared by peds and cyclists. Technically the bikes should be in the lane, but it is to narrow and unsafe. Some cyclists take the lane, but not most, because of the high traffic volume and narrow lanes it really is scary. Usually, it works. It's not following the letter of the law, but it is keeping cyclists alive. The bridge has so many problems of it's own, no dead cyclist will solve any of them.
Good luck with the advocacy, I think you'll learn that it can become quite contentious.
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#70
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WOW! This is an awesome post. Thank you.
Hey Ky Venom, if you think you're angry now, check this out. Here in Oregon you can kill a law abiding cyclist while driving with a suspended license, carelessly driving and passing in a no passing zone. She paid a $1000.00 fine w/monthly installments, and no jail time. Links below, please read.
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/f...ington-county/
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/30/d...ds-no-contest/
I do understand your frustration. I live by the highest traveled two lane bridge in Oregon. Old and narrow. Recently rated a 2 on a scale of 100 for structural integrity. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side that is shared by peds and cyclists. Technically the bikes should be in the lane, but it is to narrow and unsafe. Some cyclists take the lane, but not most, because of the high traffic volume and narrow lanes it really is scary. Usually, it works. It's not following the letter of the law, but it is keeping cyclists alive. The bridge has so many problems of it's own, no dead cyclist will solve any of them.
Good luck with the advocacy, I think you'll learn that it can become quite contentious.
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/f...ington-county/
https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/30/d...ds-no-contest/
I do understand your frustration. I live by the highest traveled two lane bridge in Oregon. Old and narrow. Recently rated a 2 on a scale of 100 for structural integrity. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side that is shared by peds and cyclists. Technically the bikes should be in the lane, but it is to narrow and unsafe. Some cyclists take the lane, but not most, because of the high traffic volume and narrow lanes it really is scary. Usually, it works. It's not following the letter of the law, but it is keeping cyclists alive. The bridge has so many problems of it's own, no dead cyclist will solve any of them.
Good luck with the advocacy, I think you'll learn that it can become quite contentious.
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I feel so badly for that poor man and his family.
But to add a comment to general conversation, it's not illegal everywhere to ride sidewalks.
At any rate, I'm always going to ride where it's safest for me to be at that moment, without endangering or harrassing anyone else. If that means getting a ticket somewhere, sometime, for riding where I shouldn't, so be it. I can pay the ticket and live to ride another day. I'm not interested in being "dead right".
But to add a comment to general conversation, it's not illegal everywhere to ride sidewalks.
At any rate, I'm always going to ride where it's safest for me to be at that moment, without endangering or harrassing anyone else. If that means getting a ticket somewhere, sometime, for riding where I shouldn't, so be it. I can pay the ticket and live to ride another day. I'm not interested in being "dead right".
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[QUOTE=dobber;4958639]This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could not avoid the bike
[quote]
Wow, were the brakes out on the car? Was the cyclist invisible?
-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could not avoid the bike
[quote]
Wow, were the brakes out on the car? Was the cyclist invisible?