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Another KILLED and backpackers don't care

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Another KILLED and backpackers don't care

Old 07-29-07, 04:51 PM
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BUT, hey, I am learning and thinking a lot.
At other forums, I can say people are not cyclist or not serious about it. Here, that is not the case.
I am confident that I will learn a lot about whether or not I continue to outside of park paths and trails, and which side I ultimately fight.
That is one of greatest characteristics. I do look to see what is worth my efforts.
This thread is invaluable.

That is one of greatest characteristics. I do look to see what is worth my efforts.
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Old 07-29-07, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Jays
Bicyclists and motorcyclists alike face tougher odds because there aren't the passive safety devices that are available to car and truck drivers. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is anything other than an unfortunate and tragic accident. Since this likely would have been a minor fenderbender if another car was involved, we don't need to crucify the driver.

I think I completely disagree with each of those statements. That would make sense, given our different views.
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Old 07-29-07, 04:53 PM
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This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that

-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could not avoid the bike

I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.

Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
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Last edited by dobber; 07-30-07 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 07-29-07, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dobber
This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that

-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could no avoid the bike

I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.


Sadly, you're right.

Originally Posted by dobber
Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
Right once again.

Not that I don't think there's room for improvement....
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Old 07-29-07, 04:59 PM
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Are we supposed to start hating backpackers now, too?


Okay.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ky Venom
"I think I completely disagree with each of those statements. That would make sense, given our different views."
Ky Venom, you disagree that bicycles and motorcycles have less passive safety devices than cars? Passive safety devices include things like seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones. I'm not stating a viewpoint, I'm stating a fact.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Jays
Ky Venom, you disagree that bicycles and motorcycles have less passive safety devices than cars? Passive safety devices include things like seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones.
BJ! DOn't go there......next thing we know, Federal regulations are going to require full body armor, enclosed roll cage, 6 axis 7 G restraint system, air bags and a crumple zone and the addition of nomex to the Lycra for fire safety and a light road bike will weigh 1500 pounds!
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Old 07-29-07, 05:05 PM
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I think a post on another forum sums it up well.

Posted 29 July 2007 03:53 PM
This is terrible, the day these drivers respect bike riders is the day a family member of their own dies in the hands of a driver while on a bike.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe
BJ! DOn't go there......next thing we know, Federal regulations are going to require full body armor...
Ya know, I've actually considered eventually getting some BMX armor for under the hi-viz commute-wear...
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Old 07-29-07, 05:08 PM
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Tom, methinks you're joking about requiring passive safety devices for cyclists!
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Old 07-29-07, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Jays
Tom, methinks you're joking about requiring passive safety devices for cyclists!
Methinks you are right!
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Old 07-29-07, 05:14 PM
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I'm not.

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Old 07-29-07, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Jays
Bicyclists and motorcyclists alike face tougher odds because there aren't the passive safety devices that are available to car and truck drivers. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is anything other than an unfortunate and tragic accident. Since this likely would have been a minor fenderbender if another car was involved, we don't need to crucify the driver.
OK... IF I have to...

1) I feel cyclist face tougher odds because people do not follow the laws. I feel the equipment/devices point is a non-issue.

2) I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest that this is anything but an unfortunate and tragic accident. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is an unfortunate and tragic accident.

3) Since this likely would NOT have been a minor fenderbender, had it been another car was involved, we need to crucify the driver.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:15 PM
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Although we would have legs of steel after pedaling around on our half-ton bicycles for a couple months!
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Old 07-29-07, 05:19 PM
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I have come across a number of bridges where there is signage requiring cyclists "to dismount and use sidewalk". Me thinks as a lawsuit prevention! Though most bridges I have seen them on are narrow and on highways.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dobber
This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that

-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could no avoid the bike

I'd say, in terms of the AnS forum, that's enough evidence to declare premeditated murder.

Thankfully we have a more through law enforcement / legal system to investigate and determine fault.
I understand. Every life can be summed up as, " they were born, they lived, they died". I guess it is just a matter of details. It all depends upon what one notices.

The only way that bike could not have been avoided was due to unsafe operation. There had to be extremely excessive speed, drugs/alcohol in use, and/or agressive driving (crowding) involved to result in this.

Thankfully, I trust my judgement more than law enforcement.

The legal system may investigate now that pressure is being applied.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:22 PM
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OK... I do like that.

Originally Posted by Blue Order
I'm not.

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Old 07-29-07, 05:23 PM
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Hey Ky Venom, if you think you're angry now, check this out. Here in Oregon you can kill a law abiding cyclist while driving with a suspended license, carelessly driving and passing in a no passing zone. She paid a $1000.00 fine w/monthly installments, and no jail time. Links below, please read.

https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/f...ington-county/

https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/30/d...ds-no-contest/

I do understand your frustration. I live by the highest traveled two lane bridge in Oregon. Old and narrow. Recently rated a 2 on a scale of 100 for structural integrity. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side that is shared by peds and cyclists. Technically the bikes should be in the lane, but it is to narrow and unsafe. Some cyclists take the lane, but not most, because of the high traffic volume and narrow lanes it really is scary. Usually, it works. It's not following the letter of the law, but it is keeping cyclists alive. The bridge has so many problems of it's own, no dead cyclist will solve any of them.

Good luck with the advocacy, I think you'll learn that it can become quite contentious.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe
How many people actually walk across the bridge anyway?
More people walk than ride a bike across.
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Old 07-29-07, 05:30 PM
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WOW! This is an awesome post. Thank you.


Originally Posted by PDXJeff
Hey Ky Venom, if you think you're angry now, check this out. Here in Oregon you can kill a law abiding cyclist while driving with a suspended license, carelessly driving and passing in a no passing zone. She paid a $1000.00 fine w/monthly installments, and no jail time. Links below, please read.

https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/f...ington-county/

https://bikeportland.org/2007/06/30/d...ds-no-contest/

I do understand your frustration. I live by the highest traveled two lane bridge in Oregon. Old and narrow. Recently rated a 2 on a scale of 100 for structural integrity. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side that is shared by peds and cyclists. Technically the bikes should be in the lane, but it is to narrow and unsafe. Some cyclists take the lane, but not most, because of the high traffic volume and narrow lanes it really is scary. Usually, it works. It's not following the letter of the law, but it is keeping cyclists alive. The bridge has so many problems of it's own, no dead cyclist will solve any of them.

Good luck with the advocacy, I think you'll learn that it can become quite contentious.
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Old 07-29-07, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ky Venom
Nope. Wrong guy. I have the scars to prove I am not bulletproof. I "about" your age. Like most, I have mellowed out a LOT in years.
Ya coulda fooled me.
If you say so. Your posts appear to be written by a teenager
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Old 07-29-07, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Ya coulda fooled me.
Your posts appear to be written by a teenager
Thank you. I work hard to stay young.



Sua Sponte !

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Old 07-29-07, 06:31 PM
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I feel so badly for that poor man and his family.

But to add a comment to general conversation, it's not illegal everywhere to ride sidewalks.
At any rate, I'm always going to ride where it's safest for me to be at that moment, without endangering or harrassing anyone else. If that means getting a ticket somewhere, sometime, for riding where I shouldn't, so be it. I can pay the ticket and live to ride another day. I'm not interested in being "dead right".
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Old 07-29-07, 06:35 PM
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Baroque, thanks for the follow-up support to my post.
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Old 07-29-07, 06:43 PM
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[QUOTE=dobber;4958639]This thread is total devoid of factual evidence. So far the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that

-A bicyclist was stuck and subsequently died
-A van was involved in the incident
-The driver was 57
-The driver stated he could not avoid the bike
[quote]

Wow, were the brakes out on the car? Was the cyclist invisible?
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