Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Who causes more problems on the road?
Motorists 64 84.21%
Cyclists 12 15.79%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-02-07, 08:25 AM   #1
mlh122
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mlh122's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NW
Bikes: Trek 4500
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Who causes more problems? News Poll

KATU News in Portland, Oregon held a poll asking "Who causes more problems on the road, motorists, or cyclists?" and receiving a lot of responses:

http://www.katu.com/news/8769412.html
mlh122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:08 AM   #2
ChezJfrey
Rider in the Storm
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, KHS Fiero (Fixed), Centurion Ironman Expert
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Stupid question. Yeah, 99% of the local populace all driving monstrous vehicles around town and those few, tiny little bicycles cause the most problems on the road...freakin' dumbasses!
ChezJfrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:19 AM   #3
mlh122
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mlh122's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NW
Bikes: Trek 4500
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yep if "problem" = minor inconvenience, then I think bikers by far cause more "problems" just by delaying a driver 5 seconds to slow down and go around. But if "problem" = injuries, deaths, $$$ in property damage, environmental and health issues, crippling personal debt, etc... then yeah it's a landslide by the motorists.
mlh122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:35 AM   #4
Falkon
The quieter you become...
 
Falkon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Huntsville, AL
Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Superbe, 2006 Trek 4300 with no original parts, 1984 Ciocc, Custom Keith Anderson
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechKnowGN
San Jose has to be the most boring place I've ever been. And I live in Ohio.
Falkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:40 AM   #5
ChezJfrey
Rider in the Storm
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, KHS Fiero (Fixed), Centurion Ironman Expert
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ha, too funny, I just read the comments and lo, it's the same old drivel ad nauseum...

Permits, darn it! Permits and the bicycle "problem" is solved for good! Until then, well, those cyclists will suffer the wrath.

"When bicyclists have to get a permit/license to operate a bicycle on Portland streets, have to get liability insurance and are subject to laws, fines, rules of the road and liability for accidents caused by them, that is when I will have more sympathy for them."

Here's a beauty about the EXTENSIVE damage a bicycle could cause:

"I think cyclists should be required to have insurance. A bicycle could do $5000 worth of damage to a new car very easily."

Oh, and the Nazis:

"Bicycle Nazis can kiss my Hummers behind."

Bicycles are both unsafe and a bit scary too:

"Many bike riders use roads that are unsafe for cyclists. These roads are narrow with very little shoulders to ride on. Common sense would only tell one that for their own safety, choose a safer road. It is especially bad this time of year when the roads are also used by farm equipment. Many cyclists do not stay in behind the white line. Instead they seem to ride the line???

As a driver it is a scary situation when you come upon a cyclist that is out in the road."

I guess even in a bike lane cyclists anger this person because they apparently ride too close to the line and somehow FORCE people to do stupid stuff...I wonder, how far away from the line is sufficient? Maybe there should be two lines - one for the edge and one next to it for where the rider should be? Stupid twit.

"I am sick of the cyclists here! If they are in the cycle lane, they are right on the very edge of the white line and this always causes the cars to swerve out and around them. This causes other oncoming cars to have to either slow or swerve as well. THIS SITUATION IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND IS ALSO KNOWN AS 'IMPEDING TRAFFIC FLOW'.

I AM SICK TO DEATH OF CYCLISTS THINKING THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY OR EVEN EQUAL RIGHTS ON OUR ROADS. THE DAY THEY CAN BE IN TRAFFIC OR AROUND TRAFFIC AND ACCELERATE WITH TRAFFIC AND RIDE AT THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT, AND NOT 'IMPEDE THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC' IS THE DAY THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED EQUAL...AND NOT UNTIL THAT TIME. "

For this guy, bigger is better so watch out! Maybe he needs to pull his stick out?

"If you want to ride your bike on the same road with cars be prepared to learn some physics - the big stick wins."

Anyway, I've already addressed the morons here: Help me respond to anti-cycling letter!
ChezJfrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:49 AM   #6
ChezJfrey
Rider in the Storm
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, KHS Fiero (Fixed), Centurion Ironman Expert
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh122 View Post
yep if "problem" = minor inconvenience, then I think bikers by far cause more "problems" just by delaying a driver 5 seconds to slow down and go around. But if "problem" = injuries, deaths, $$$ in property damage, environmental and health issues, crippling personal debt, etc... then yeah it's a landslide by the motorists.
But the funny part (funny in that sad, pathetic way) is that the "delay" is usually not even for the whole trip - their total trip time is unaffected. It's merely a delay reaching some future stop light where they would have probably already been required to stop anyway. In other words, they will end up in the same queue of cars somewhere during their excursion whether they encountered the bicycle or not.
ChezJfrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:49 AM   #7
littlewaywelt
Senior Member
 
littlewaywelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've seen far more cyclists causing problems and breaking the law than motorcyclists.
littlewaywelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 10:36 AM   #8
jimmuter
Urban Biker
 
jimmuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: Trek 720 hybrid; 2007 Specialized Tricross Comp
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
I've seen far more cyclists causing problems and breaking the law than motorcyclists.
Yes, but the poll addresses "motorists", not motorcyclists.
jimmuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 11:10 AM   #9
littlewaywelt
Senior Member
 
littlewaywelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The poll results aren't suprising.

It's always someone else's fault.
littlewaywelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 11:11 AM   #10
littlewaywelt
Senior Member
 
littlewaywelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmuter View Post
Yes, but the poll addresses "motorists", not motorcyclists.
That's what happens when I don't have my coffee.
littlewaywelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 11:32 AM   #11
Bikepacker67
Banned
 
Bikepacker67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogopogo's shoreline
Bikes: LHT, Kona Smoke
Posts: 4,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One of the main reasons that cyclist "get in motorists' way" is so that they can avoid motor vehicles going ZERO miles an hour, parked on the side of the street.

fluckin' selfish pr!cks
Bikepacker67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 12:44 PM   #12
Falkon
The quieter you become...
 
Falkon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Huntsville, AL
Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Superbe, 2006 Trek 4300 with no original parts, 1984 Ciocc, Custom Keith Anderson
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have not once seen a cyclist impede the flow of traffic, ever. I see several a day whether I'm driving or biking. It has never been even an inconvenience for me to allow for extra space on a two lane road or change lanes on a four lane road. If I saw a driver act in aggression toward a cyclist who was following the rules, even though it's "not my business" and I were driving as well, I would probably exchange words with the driver.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechKnowGN
San Jose has to be the most boring place I've ever been. And I live in Ohio.
Falkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 02:53 PM   #13
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the sad thing is that the Portland Police actually use 'data' like this as an excuse to go out and bust more bicyclists....


randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 03:11 PM   #14
ChezJfrey
Rider in the Storm
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, KHS Fiero (Fixed), Centurion Ironman Expert
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by randya View Post
the sad thing is that the Portland Police actually use 'data' like this as an excuse to go out and bust more bicyclists....


No kidding. This poll is like going to the Super Bowl and asking the crowd whether they think football players or ballroom dancers are sissies. Gee, I wonder what the overwhelming answer would be...

Good science I tell ya.
ChezJfrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 03:18 PM   #15
nova
hill hater
 
nova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: norton ohio 5.5 miles from center road tow path trail head
Bikes: cannondale t400 1987 model and a raleigh gran prix from 1973
Posts: 2,127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bleh same drivel dif day in portland. This is what the 20 post about various driver nastyness over there? Maybe ill have to take a trip down there and have a little fun in my old time challenge road shoes and a key on a stick ....
nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 03:24 PM   #16
timmhaan
more ape than man
 
timmhaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nyc
Bikes:
Posts: 8,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what always gets me, is the sheer number of people who do not know the law. not even a little. sadly, even cops sometimes don't.
timmhaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:00 PM   #17
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmhaan View Post
what always gets me, is the sheer number of people who do not know the law. not even a little. sadly, even cops sometimes don't.
BINGO!

And here we sit essentially educating one another... challenging one another about issues and taking to debate on the finer points of the law.

Meanwhile 45,000 motorists die each year because of some sort of violations... and then motorists point the fingers at us... while being blind to their own issues. Sigh.

I myself carry cards with the laws pertaining to cyclists printed on them... anyone willing to listen, gets a card.

This is why I have argued time after tiime the best thing cycling advocacy can do is push for higher standards for drivers' licensing, and public service announcements regarding public use of the road.

It's not about telling "them" about "us," it IS about educating a vastly misinformed public, period.

Here is something amusing you can do... the next time you are in some public place, where free conversations are taking place... wedding reception, work... at the water cooler, party, it doesn't matter, but you should not be known as a cyclist... bring up the subject of cyclists on the road, and just listen to the opinions. Start by perhaps talking about the price of gas... then move the conversation to what drivers think about bikes. You will get an earfull. Mostly poor opinion or folks telling you what they think the laws are... (and they are generally wrong.) Just listen.

If this is a group of folks you know well... take the time to clue them in... otherwise, just remember what you heard. It will be quite surprising.

For a long time at my office I had posted the laws regarding cyclists use of the road on the outside of my cube. It really surprised me how many people came by and said "I didn't know that... " and the conversations would start from there.

Driver's ed is just enough to get folks out on the road... along the way the tidbits of info get twisted into misconceptions that become "law" in drivers' minds.

Yeah, there are a lot of misconceptions out there... and we often suffer for this lack of knowledge.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:16 PM   #18
San Rensho 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
BINGO!

And here we sit essentially educating one another... challenging one another about issues and taking to debate on the finer points of the law.

Meanwhile 45,000 motorists die each year because of some sort of violations... and then motorists point the fingers at us... while being blind to their own issues. Sigh.

I myself carry cards with the laws pertaining to cyclists printed on them... anyone willing to listen, gets a card.

This is why I have argued time after tiime the best thing cycling advocacy can do is push for higher standards for drivers' licensing, and public service announcements regarding public use of the road.

It's not about telling "them" about "us," it IS about educating a vastly misinformed public, period.

Here is something amusing you can do... the next time you are in some public place, where free conversations are taking place... wedding reception, work... at the water cooler, party, it doesn't matter, but you should not be known as a cyclist... bring up the subject of cyclists on the road, and just listen to the opinions. Start by perhaps talking about the price of gas... then move the conversation to what drivers think about bikes. You will get an earfull. Mostly poor opinion or folks telling you what they think the laws are... (and they are generally wrong.) Just listen.

If this is a group of folks you know well... take the time to clue them in... otherwise, just remember what you heard. It will be quite surprising.

For a long time at my office I had posted the laws regarding cyclists use of the road on the outside of my cube. It really surprised me how many people came by and said "I didn't know that... " and the conversations would start from there.

Driver's ed is just enough to get folks out on the road... along the way the tidbits of info get twisted into misconceptions that become "law" in drivers' minds.

Yeah, there are a lot of misconceptions out there... and we often suffer for this lack of knowledge.
The poll is very eye opening because it shows us the hatred that motorists have towards cyclists.

Gene, I agree that much of the problem comes from the public's lack of knowledge of the laws, but I believe that a large majority of motorists just detest cyclists, period, and even if they know the law, think the law is wrong believe that bicyclists should have no right to be on the road. These people continue to honk, buzz , swear , yell "get on the sidewalk", at cyclists because they don't care what the law is. They are cowards and at the moment they encounter a cyclist, they are in a 5000 pound car and will bully the cyclist.

Theres no arguing with these "bicycle bigots", their attitude is "God gave me a Hummer to crush you and your little bike".

Just ride accordingly. I bicycle with the attitude that I'm a paranoid until a driver shows me he's not trying to kill me.
__________________
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
San Rensho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:17 PM   #19
nova
hill hater
 
nova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: norton ohio 5.5 miles from center road tow path trail head
Bikes: cannondale t400 1987 model and a raleigh gran prix from 1973
Posts: 2,127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmhaan View Post
what always gets me, is the sheer number of people who do not know the law. not even a little. sadly, even cops sometimes don't.
Heh true i remember a number of times some cop telling me to get on the side walk. My response the law states i can ride on the road and infact the law forbids any one above the age of 12 to ride bikes on the side walk.
nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:31 PM   #20
Daily Commute
Ride the Road
 
Daily Commute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Posts: 4,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You gotta love the way Portland bike lanes encourage motorists to respect our right to use the road:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanya from Portland
If there is no bike lanes than don't ride your bikes. . . . So if no bike lanes get off the road.
Daily Commute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:47 PM   #21
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Commute View Post
You gotta love the way Portland bike lanes encourage motorists to respect our right to use the road:
She's a minority opinion. The predominant opinion of motorists who have issues with cyclists is that there should not be any bike lanes at all because we're not licensed, registered, paying gasoline taxes, etc. Most anti-bike motorists around here feel we have no right to the road in any fashion.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:57 PM   #22
lima_bean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: Jamis Nova
Posts: 714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh122 View Post
yep if "problem" = minor inconvenience, then I think bikers by far cause more "problems" just by delaying a driver 5 seconds to slow down and go around.

You think drivers are delayed more by cyclists than by other drivers? What about that twice a day thing called rush hour?
lima_bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 05:12 PM   #23
evblazer
Thread Killer
 
evblazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Marfan Syndrome-Clyde-DFW, TX
Bikes: Fuji Touring Xtracycle, Merlin Road, Bacchetta Giro 26 (Sold), Challenge Hurricane, Cruzbike Sofrider
Posts: 1,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_bean View Post
You think drivers are delayed more by cyclists than by other drivers? What about that twice a day thing called rush hour?
And during rush hour on a four lane road when they cars are packed like sardines going 40mph a cyclist taking the lane slows them down because every car must accomidate that cyclist they can't just move over and pass.
You have two lanes of traffic compressed into one just like if a car had broken down in the right lane.
Most times on most roads cyclists maybe cause a few seconds. The times people remember though are where they cause alot longer delay or are doing stupid stuff. It is unfortunate that there are so many cyclists that ride like crap around where I live. Law abiding predictable ones are an extreme minority of cyclists. The opposite is true mostly for motorists although they treat stop signs like yield signs too.
evblazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 05:13 PM   #24
ChezJfrey
Rider in the Storm
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, KHS Fiero (Fixed), Centurion Ironman Expert
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_bean View Post
You think drivers are delayed more by cyclists than by other drivers? What about that twice a day thing called rush hour?
But that's what is so funny, nobody can seem to admit that! Let's use our imagination here. Imagine driving to work in the morning. Got it? How long did the trip take? OK, now imagine driving to work with all the bicycles that you would normally see, but absolutely no other cars or trucks on the road - none. Now, how long would the trip take? Did the bikes really slow you down, or was it really all the other cars?
ChezJfrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 05:15 PM   #25
lima_bean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: Jamis Nova
Posts: 714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by evblazer View Post
And during rush hour on a four lane road when they cars are packed like sardines going 40mph a cyclist taking the lane slows them down because every car must accomidate that cyclist they can't just move over and pass.
You have two lanes of traffic compressed into one just like if a car had broken down in the right lane.

Even if that was completely true, and I wont argue it now, you honestly believe those delays from the cyclists you describe are MORE than the delays from other cars? As you said yourself, cars break down and take up those lanes, which is not uncommon, and delay traffic badly as well.

Dunno man, I see some streets that are backed up for miles and miles and it isnt because a cyclist is taking up one of the lanes, I bet some of those streets have never even seen a single cyclist during rush hour. Usually the freeways are just as clogged, and I can guarantee that isnt from cyclists taking up the lane like a broke down car.
lima_bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:22 PM.