Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-02-07, 11:18 PM   #1
benjdm
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes: Sun EZ-Speedster SX, Volae Expedition
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A couple of critical mass defenders requested

http://sntjohnny.com/smf/index.php?t...cseen#msg40844

I don't think I know enough about it to defend it adequately.
benjdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 01:21 AM   #2
biknbrian
Senior Member
 
biknbrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: BiknBrian brand custom 26 inch commuter trekker, Cannondale F600 Single Speeded MTB, Nashbar Cro-Mo CX, some other bikes and parts that could be made into bikes.
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just started looking into to this Critcal Mass thing and I will agree that you should never need a permit to gather in a public place or organize a ride. The whole permit businness is just a way for the government to control groups it does not agree with.

Also, this "corking" thing is common on large motorcycle rides and even though it's technically illegal people should learn to tolerate a group that is just trying to stay together. I'm also sure most of the motorists who end up in a confrontation are *****holes who see somebody doing something they don't like and feel compeled to prove that they have the right of way.


That's about all the good I can say for Critical Mass. Frankly the whole thing feels like a bunch of anti-establishment anarchists trying to skirt the edges of legality to mess with people that just want to go on about their day and get where they're going.

There's a type of person who will follow a cause for no reason other than to rebel against the majority. Even if you suddenly gave them whatever they wanted they just find something else to ***** about. Example:

Liberal, "Damn McDonalds, huge corporation, making millions turning people into fat slobs. I know I'm right and I'll force the world to understand!!"

God, "Henceforth, in accordance with your every wish McDonalds will now be Fat Taxed to a rate which forces it out of business."

Same Liberal some time later, "Damn Government, always telling us what we can and can't do with own bodies."


I've never been to a Critical Mass ride, but the movement feels this way to me. Perhaps I'll go to one and see what it's all about. But if there are cyclists out there deliberatley antagonizing motorists it upsets me greatly. This is certainly not the way to get people to respect cyclists.
biknbrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 06:04 AM   #3
Gromit
Senior Member
 
Gromit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes: Blue Competition Cycles RC4
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
While no one deserves to be run over by a car (methinks - wait - mehopes - the author is penning his own version of Modest Proposal), the best I can say for critical mass is that they're a bunch of *****holes. I can neither condone nor defend their tactics.
Gromit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 07:05 AM   #4
PaulH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,337
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Question: do Critical Mass operations block bicycle traffic as well?

Paul
PaulH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 08:01 AM   #5
lima_bean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: Jamis Nova
Posts: 714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulH View Post
Question: do Critical Mass operations block bicycle traffic as well?

Paul

yes
lima_bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 08:12 AM   #6
Bushman
Grumbly Goat
 
Bushman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes: bicycles with round wheels
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulH View Post
Question: do Critical Mass operations block bicycle traffic as well?

Paul
yes, and pedestrian traffic, and any unfortunate person in a vehicle,often with violent results (see attack on children and mom in minivan)
Bushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 08:36 AM   #7
1ply
Plays in Traffic
 
1ply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You have to look where this article comes from - some christian discussion board - which I'm sure is making lots of friends with statements like:

"....in a bastion of sodomy such as San Francisco where natural family and affections are so despised..."

I'm sure he makes friends very easily.

I don't agree with the attack on the van, but if we pooled together every incident where a car "attacked" a cyclist we would get a better feel for who the greater evil is.
1ply is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 09:01 AM   #8
Bushman
Grumbly Goat
 
Bushman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes: bicycles with round wheels
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
technically a car by itself is incapable of attacking anyone, as it is only an object. The driver of said object on the other hand........
Bushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 09:04 AM   #9
rwp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes:
Posts: 400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From the article:

"Those I am referring to are protestors and self-appointed revolutionaries thinking that they are so important and much more better than you that they somehow have the right to literally bring your life to a screeching halt to...."

I wonder if he feels the same way about politicians who shut down blocks and blocks of city traffic wherever and whenever they make campaign stops. Did Karl Rove's motorcade block any traffic I wonder? Does the author feel the same about police funerals when hundred of black and whites bring normal traffic to a halt? Would he have the guts to say so in the same in your face style on a police forum? It's easy to criticize CM (don't get me wrong, I think CM could use some criticism) but let's apply the same standards to everyone.
rwp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 09:13 AM   #10
GreenGrasshoppr
Opt-in Member
 
GreenGrasshoppr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Makes me wonder if a Critical Mass ride ever intersected with another competing march/demonstration... and if so, what happened.
GreenGrasshoppr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 09:26 AM   #11
-=(8)=-
♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯
 
-=(8)=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
Posts: 7,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by biknbrian View Post
That's about all the good I can say for Critical Mass. Frankly the whole thing feels like a bunch of anti-establishment anarchists trying to skirt the edges of legality to mess with people that just want to go on about their day and get where they're going.

There's a type of person who will follow a cause for no reason other than to rebel against the majority. Even if you suddenly gave them whatever they wanted they just find something else to ***** about. Example:

Liberal, "Damn McDonalds, huge corporation, making millions turning people into fat slobs. I know I'm right and I'll force the world to understand!!"

God, "Henceforth, in accordance with your every wish McDonalds will now be Fat Taxed to a rate which forces it out of business."

Same Liberal some time later, "Damn Government, always telling us what we can and can't do with own bodies."
.......Then you step down off of your pedestal to offer :
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinbrian
I've never been to a Critical Mass ride, but the movement feels this way to me.
-=(8)=- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 09:28 AM   #12
-=(8)=-
♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯
 
-=(8)=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
Posts: 7,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
yes, and pedestrian traffic, and any unfortunate person in a vehicle,often with violent results (see attack on children and mom in minivan)

After all the info that came out about this, you would still post this ??

Its going to be a real shock when you find out the earth isnt flat......

-=(8)=- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 09:45 AM   #13
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=- View Post
After all the info that came out about this, you would still post this ??

Its going to be a real shock when you find out the earth isnt flat......

Just because someone is on a bike when they do something does not make an otherwise wrong act right.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 10:01 AM   #14
evblazer
Thread Killer
 
evblazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Marfan Syndrome-Clyde-DFW, TX
Bikes: Fuji Touring Xtracycle, Merlin Road, Bacchetta Giro 26 (Sold), Challenge Hurricane, Cruzbike Sofrider
Posts: 1,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
"The thing of it is, what they have to say probably isn’t worth considering all that much in the first place."
How open minded of him
I'd rally like to go sometime and observe firsthand. I'm sure there are alot of hooligans there making trouble just for the fun of it. From reading over wikipedia (the source of all knowledge ) it seems harmless enough in it's roots and the guys in NYC at the bike store seemed to think it was a great thing and told me I had to come down but I never got hte opportunity
I'd love to see them stop and make way for an ambulance if they ever encountered the issue to shut down that crappy argument against it. It does sound pretty disruptive though but if it wasn't it would just be a weekend gorup ride.
Maybe I'll try and start a critical mass ride with all the commuters in double oak
evblazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 10:06 AM   #15
lima_bean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: Jamis Nova
Posts: 714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by evblazer View Post
It does sound pretty disruptive though but if it wasn't it would just be a weekend gorup ride.
Every one Ive attended had the vibe of a friendly community group ride, not really a protest or statement. Where a lot of people who are normally too scared to ride their bike in the street came out. Seen very few incidents of pissed cars and 99% drivers actually seem to be supportive, cooperative, and helpful. Seems like its usually just seen as a community event.

Certainly doesn't seem like its like this everywhere or every time though if you believe the news, but I havnt seen the ugly side first hand yet. I havnt done a SF mass either though, which is where most of the news seems to come from.
lima_bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 10:29 AM   #16
Mike_Like_Bike
Je suis ici !
 
Mike_Like_Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Bikes: 2006 Scott Speedster S20, 2005 Trek 7200FX, 1988 White Cannondale Criterium Single Speed Conversion, 1986(?) Peugeot...I don't know what model it is, but it's a road bike
Posts: 482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Fredrick Meekins, looks like a nutbag to me...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
Mike_Like_Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 10:31 AM   #17
Bushman
Grumbly Goat
 
Bushman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes: bicycles with round wheels
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=- View Post
After all the info that came out about this, you would still post this ??

Its going to be a real shock when you find out the earth isnt flat......

THE EARTH IS'NT FLAT?????
Bushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 10:40 AM   #18
bobbyahines
Senior Member
 
bobbyahines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes: Bridgestone RB-2, Bridgestone CB-2, Specialized Hard Rock
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Again, I think you have to look at where the CM rides take place as well. Here, we "mass" about 20 riders, everybody rides two abreast when a passing lane for vehicles is available, and single file when there's night. Nobody engages in a confrontational driver or pedestrian ever. I think the mob mentality kicks in when the masses get big in the metropolitan areas. I think much of what occurs in those rides are not in congruence with the original intentions of the thing...
bobbyahines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 10:43 AM   #19
Bushman
Grumbly Goat
 
Bushman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes: bicycles with round wheels
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
Just because someone is on a bike when they do something does not make an otherwise wrong act right.
Thank you.
Bushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 04:55 PM   #20
notfred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Where do A&S people find all these forums? I doubt you saw a link to that thread on your local news channel, is that a forum you actually visit regularly?

I keep seeing these threads in A&S linking to sites full of ignorant, bigoted, hateful people, and it makes me question the type of people that post in A&S. Are they the same people that visit these sites?
notfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 05:11 PM   #21
Aloyzius
Thawing Member
 
Aloyzius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker, Soma ES, Bianchi Eros, 85 Raleigh Marathon, and a couple clunkers
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went on my first critical mass last week here in Salt Lake City. It's been a very long time since I had that much fun on a bike. Now, that said, I will also say I am uneasy about doing it again. Yes, motorists need to be made aware of bikes. But in this day of road rage and lunacy, I don't think we're doing solo bicyclists any favors when we go out en masse, and give the finger to the man. And some just take it too far.

I must say, some motorists at least got it, honking and waving, whatever. The majority just looked pissed off, as we screwed up traffic even worse, during rush hour, on a friday.

I want cars to respect me, the way I respect them. And while I enjoy Critical Mass, I can't agree with some of what we do. If I decide to keep going with it, I hope I can influence some change among my peers.

Simply put, a lot of motorists hate cyclists. And this attitude we have in Critical Mass only reinforces that attitude in many people.

And I sound like a damn hippie. Group hug. Sing Kumbayah or something.
Aloyzius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 06:34 PM   #22
Tom Stormcrowe
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
 
Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Posts: 16,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your wish is my command.......
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/1129952

at least a small sample of it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloyzius View Post
I went on my first critical mass last week here in Salt Lake City. It's been a very long time since I had that much fun on a bike. Now, that said, I will also say I am uneasy about doing it again. Yes, motorists need to be made aware of bikes. But in this day of road rage and lunacy, I don't think we're doing solo bicyclists any favors when we go out en masse, and give the finger to the man. And some just take it too far.

I must say, some motorists at least got it, honking and waving, whatever. The majority just looked pissed off, as we screwed up traffic even worse, during rush hour, on a friday.

I want cars to respect me, the way I respect them. And while I enjoy Critical Mass, I can't agree with some of what we do. If I decide to keep going with it, I hope I can influence some change among my peers.

Simply put, a lot of motorists hate cyclists. And this attitude we have in Critical Mass only reinforces that attitude in many people.

And I sound like a damn hippie. Group hug. Sing Kumbayah or something.
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
Tom Stormcrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 06:38 PM   #23
Aloyzius
Thawing Member
 
Aloyzius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker, Soma ES, Bianchi Eros, 85 Raleigh Marathon, and a couple clunkers
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Must be the worst version of the worst song ever.
ROFL
Aloyzius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 06:39 PM   #24
Tom Stormcrowe
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
 
Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Posts: 16,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloyzius View Post
Must be the worst version of the worst song ever.
ROFL
Yeah, well, it was free.......

Sorry, I just couldn't resist!
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
Tom Stormcrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-07, 11:31 PM   #25
scooterbeans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The guy is clearly a nut job; he has a Masters in Christian apologetics, yet writes this:

"Had the driver decided to role over these delinquents, he should have been given a medal"

The rest of it is seriously misguided as well, don't waste your time.
scooterbeans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:41 PM.