Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: Tragic Accident

  1. #1
    Senior Member jasongilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Topeka and Lawrence, Kansas
    My Bikes
    Trek 7500
    Posts
    51
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Tragic Accident

    My wife's first question to me when she got home from work last night was "do you carry your driver's license when you ride?"

    I do.

    She works in the emergency department at the hospital. Last evening a bicyclist, Paula Lucas, 54, was brought in. She had collided, head on, with another biker on the Lake Shawnee Trail--a concrete walking/riding trail. She landed on the back of her skull. She was not wearing a helmet. According to my wife, Lucas was fixed and dilated when the paramedics arrived. They resuscitated her and took her to the hospital where she eventually died. When my wife left work, Lucas was still alive and no one knew who she was because she had no id on her. I don't know if they identified her before she died.

    She collided with Thomas Heikes. 58, who was also taken in with serious injuries, but my wife didn't seem to think they were life-threatening.

    The official thus far is here: http://cjonline.com/stories/080307/bre_bikes.shtml I assume more will be reported on the investigation.

    This might be categorized as "freak" accident. The Lake Trail is simply a winding sidewalk around the lake. I would guess she drove or rode in from a nearby neighborhood for a leisurely ride assuming that there was no reason for precautions such as head gear or id. I would assume that about anyone on this trail, but for this level of injury, at least one of them had to be clipping along. My wife says that Heikes was larger than Lucas (she would have gotten that from the paramedic/rumor mill, I think he went to a different hospital), but even so someone had to be going pretty fast. Apparently, they both swerved to avoid each other but went the same direction.

    No conclusions or comment, just wanted every to hear the story. May her memory be eternal.

    Update: a more expanded article located here: http://www.cjonline.com/stories/0804...88969500.shtml
    Last edited by jasongilbert; 08-07-07 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    1,049
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tragic!

    I NEVER leave my driveway on my bike withoug wearing my helmet. When I was fiddling with the derailleur adjustment on my old 10-speed, and taking short test rides up and down my street, I'd put the helmet on EVERY TIME!

    I've noticed that 99% of bicyclists wear helmets, and 99% of motorcyclists don't.

    This subject of ID came up in a EMT class once. Someone mentioned that a local bicycle club was promoting the idea of their members putting some sort of ID tag, including medical history, if any, on the inside of their helmets. The opinion of those in the class was that most likely an EMT would not remove the helmet at an accident scene anyway.

    I do think that some sort of ID, to include medical history, is a good idea. Maybe something along the lines of a bracelet. In my case, I'm Type 2 diabetic. I suppose I could go hypoglycemic and pass out or maybe just get woozy, and it might be nice to have such a thing.
    Last edited by tpelle; 08-03-07 at 11:57 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member hotbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    My Bikes
    a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike
    Posts
    2,525
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This story adds to the body of evidence that the roads are safer than the bike paths.
    I don't see how this could have happened if both bicycles werwe travelling on a public road.

    Tragic, yes. But It makes me feel like writing a letter to complain how the bike paths are poorly engineered.
    (too narow, sudden sharp turns, lack of lighting, plantings and vegetation causing visual obstruction, etc.)

    I feel safer riding on the roads, which are designed for speeds of 30+ MPH.

    My condolences to the family and friends.

  4. #4
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Zorneding, Germany
    My Bikes
    Pedalforce CX1 & Trek Madone 5.9
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've gotten this for myself:
    http://www.roadid.com
    Gelato aficionado.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Posts
    1,166
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That is awful. I, for one, never leave home without my helmet either, and always ride with a copy of my driver license in my seat bag. Never leave home without it. The last thing I want is to be 25 miles from home on the side of the road with a concussion and my wife/kids have the person who stumbles across me have no way of letting my wife know.

    Another thing I do is always carry my cell phone with me. In the event I crash/get hit and the cell phone is still operable, I have my home number programmed in there as "HOME" so that it'll leave no doubt to the person who comes across my path. Also, I have my wife's cell phone entered as "ICE" (the popular "In Case of Emergency". Hopefully nobody ever has to use it though.

  6. #6
    Former Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    dropmachine.com
    Posts
    4,062
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tpelle View Post

    I've noticed that 99% of bicyclists wear helmets, and 99% of motorcyclists don't.

    Where is this?

  7. #7
    Senior Member jasongilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Topeka and Lawrence, Kansas
    My Bikes
    Trek 7500
    Posts
    51
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
    This story adds to the body of evidence that the roads are safer than the bike paths.
    I don't see how this could have happened if both bicycles were traveling on a public road.
    That was my first thought, but on this trail, it should not have been a problem. It is wide enough at all points for two bikes to pass, it is generally lined with grass, it has no steep grades or sharp turns and it is shared by pedestrians, dog walkers, etc. So I have to suspect that negligence played a large roll. Neither should have been going very fast, both should have been able to bail to their respective right side.

  8. #8
    The quieter you become... Falkon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    My Bikes
    1973 Raleigh Superbe, 2006 Trek 4300 with no original parts, 1984 Ciocc, Custom Keith Anderson
    Posts
    1,283
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just a note, if pupils are fixed and dilated, there's a good chance they're pretty much dead, gone, off to meet their maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by TechKnowGN
    San Jose has to be the most boring place I've ever been. And I live in Ohio.

  9. #9
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I keep in case of emergency info on a label on each side of my helmet in case one is shredded in a crash
    my name, address, blood type, meds, allergies, insurance info, 2 emerg contact names & phones and my resting hr & bp. With a pretty small font I'm able to get the whole thing on a 1inch by 3 inch piece of paper that I put a thick piece of packing tape over. It's so durable that I've had one pieces on for at least the last couple of years.

    I also have a postage label with my name & address on my bike frame.
    One Less Car
    Conservation begins with you.

  10. #10
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    Where is this?
    That's what I was wondering. On the mup by my house, where I run daily, I don't think more than 1/10 ppl I see on a bike wears a helmet.
    One Less Car
    Conservation begins with you.

  11. #11
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,117
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    jasongilbert,
    You did make several conclusions and comments, which is fine except for the claim of not making any.

    I do take exception with the conclusion that at least one of the cyclist had to be “clipping along” for such a serious injury. That injury can occur from simply going over the bars or simply falling off the bike and speed is not a requirement. The height of the fall is.

    I watched 2 cyclist collide head on, they saw each other and one had slowed to < 3 mph and the other stopped. The one still moving caught her front wheel on the other bike, it turned 90degrees and she endoed over the bar onto the back of her head. She had breeding from the head and a hard time not passing out. One of my EMTs was also riding the area and so the cyclist got immediate medical care.
    Last edited by CB HI; 08-05-07 at 02:43 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    222
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Put some form of ID (even handwritten) in a pocket—that's where they're going to look first. A bracelet's a good idea too, if you can stand it. Inside the helmet is not the worst place; sure, the paramedics won't remove it at the scene, but the hospital will probably check there if they can't find ID anywhere else.

    In your bags can be risky; if you really get nailed, they might not stay attached and no one will know to look for them.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    222
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    I also have a postage label with my name & address on my bike frame.
    That is a great idea in more ways than one.

  14. #14
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    jasongilbert,
    You did make several conclusions and comments, which is fine except for the claim of not making any.

    I do take exception with the conclusion that at least one of the cyclist had to be “clipping along” for such a serious injury. That injury can occur from simply going over the bars or simply falling off the bike and speed is not a requirement. They height of the fall is.

    I watched 2 cyclist collide head on, they saw each other and one had slowed to < 3 mph and the other stopped. The one still moving caught her front wheel on the other bike, it turned 90degrees and she endoed over the bar onto the back of her head. She had breeding from the head and a hard time not passing out. One of my EMTs was also riding the area and so the cyclist got immediate medical care.
    What makes height a factor is the speed with which impact occurs. It's a force issue, so it's not unreasonable to assume that someone was moving quickly. While in your case the forward speed may have been only 3mph, the speed with which the person's head impacted the ground was certainly higher.

    One of my sons had a pretty serious head injury from only 2 feet. He was sitting on a bar and fell over backwards pivoting. The total distance his head travelled was probably 5-6 feet and the speed was substantial. That combined with the fact the he impacted a very small surface (a concrete edge/lip) area meant more energy was transferred to a smaller area. I had to practically give the triage nurse a lesson in physics using illustrations to explain why the MOI was substantial and they'd need to order a ct immediately.
    One Less Car
    Conservation begins with you.

  15. #15
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
    Posts
    15,082
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I've gotten this for myself:
    http://www.roadid.com


    I just use a set of dog tags from Poundmaster They have my name, DL# (never put your SSN on anything) Blood type, Allergies and four emergency contact #'s. between the two tags. They look like standard dog tags except I like black and I added some red silencers to draw attention to them.

    No, those aren't mine.

    Tags can be ordered custom imprinted on the following materials:
    Matte Stainless Steel, Bright Stainless Steel, Black, or Brass

    Each Poundmaster Tag comes with a neck chain of the same color. The tags can accommodate up to 5 lines of information with up to 14 spaces per line. If they squeeze, they can get 15 spaces in the middle 3 lines.

    Single Dog Tags with a 24 inch neck chain are priced at $7.00 each.
    Double Tag sets consist of 2 tags and one 24 inch neck chain and
    one 4 inch connector chain and are priced at $12.00 per set. Silencers that fit around the tags can be ordered in Black, Red, Yellow, Orange, Blue and Green.Silencers cost is $1.50 per set of 2 and Postage and handling for each order is $2.25 (In the US)

    In the immortal words of Vlad: "I don't work for them I'm just a big fan of their products."



  16. #16
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
    I just use a set of dog tags from Poundmaster They have my name, DL# (never put your SSN on anything) Blood type, Allergies and four emergency contact #'s. between the two tags. They look like standard dog tags except I like black and I added some red silencers to draw attention to them.
    No, those aren't mine.

    Tags can be ordered custom imprinted on the following materials:
    Matte Stainless Steel, Bright Stainless Steel, Black, or Brass

    Each Poundmaster Tag comes with a neck chain of the same color. The tags can accommodate up to 5 lines of information with up to 14 spaces per line. If they squeeze, they can get 15 spaces in the middle 3 lines.

    Single Dog Tags with a 24 inch neck chain are priced at $7.00 each.
    Double Tag sets consist of 2 tags and one 24 inch neck chain and
    one 4 inch connector chain and are priced at $12.00 per set. Silencers that fit around the tags can be ordered in Black, Red, Yellow, Orange, Blue and Green.Silencers cost is $1.50 per set of 2 and Postage and handling for each order is $2.25 (In the US)

    In the immortal words of Vlad: "I don't work for them I'm just a big fan of their products."


    an even less expensive, but similar thing to do is to get actual dog tags. Petsmart and similar places usually have a machine at the store.
    One Less Car
    Conservation begins with you.

  17. #17
    Pedal pusher... alicestrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    I've got a bunch...
    Posts
    7,729
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
    This story adds to the body of evidence that the roads are safer than the bike paths.
    I don't see how this could have happened if both bicycles werwe travelling on a public road.
    On a public road you risk colliding with a wrong way cyclist.

    Sad this happened on a path. Sad overall...
    May you live long, live strong, and live happy!

  18. #18
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    1,049
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
    I just use a set of dog tags from Poundmaster They have my name, DL# (never put your SSN on anything) Blood type, Allergies and four emergency contact #'s. between the two tags. They look like standard dog tags except I like black and I added some red silencers to draw attention to them.

    No, those aren't mine.

    Tags can be ordered custom imprinted on the following materials:
    Matte Stainless Steel, Bright Stainless Steel, Black, or Brass

    Each Poundmaster Tag comes with a neck chain of the same color. The tags can accommodate up to 5 lines of information with up to 14 spaces per line. If they squeeze, they can get 15 spaces in the middle 3 lines.

    Single Dog Tags with a 24 inch neck chain are priced at $7.00 each.
    Double Tag sets consist of 2 tags and one 24 inch neck chain and
    one 4 inch connector chain and are priced at $12.00 per set. Silencers that fit around the tags can be ordered in Black, Red, Yellow, Orange, Blue and Green.Silencers cost is $1.50 per set of 2 and Postage and handling for each order is $2.25 (In the US)

    In the immortal words of Vlad: "I don't work for them I'm just a big fan of their products."


    Thanks for the info. I just ordered a pair of these. Didn't think I'd like a bracelet (and these have a "Macho" look to 'em, don't ya think?).

  19. #19
    Senior Member jasongilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Topeka and Lawrence, Kansas
    My Bikes
    Trek 7500
    Posts
    51
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    jasongilbert,
    You did make several conclusions and comments, which is fine except for the claim of not making any.

    I do take exception with the conclusion that at least one of the cyclist had to be “clipping along” for such a serious injury.
    etc.

    Point taken. While typing I did a lot of wondering to my self about how this might have occurred on such a benign trail. It is pointless speculation, I know, but it's natural. The conclusions and comments I wanted to avoid was pointing fingers, assigning fault, etc. You are right, both cyclists could have acted completely within reason and still this could have happened.

    My wife was pretty shaken up by the sight of it and it has been weighing on me a bit since she told me about it.

  20. #20
    Junior Member Cool User Name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Erie, CO
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    I do take exception with the conclusion that at least one of the cyclist had to be “clipping along” for such a serious injury. That injury can occur from simply going over the bars or simply falling off the bike and speed is not a requirement.
    If they weren't clipping along they likely wouldn't have hit one another to begin with. Accidents like this tend to happen when one or the other is cutting the fast line on the corners, hugging the inside with poor visibility around the corner.

  21. #21
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,117
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cool User Name View Post
    If they weren't clipping along they likely wouldn't have hit one another to begin with. Accidents like this tend to happen when one or the other is cutting the fast line on the corners, hugging the inside with poor visibility around the corner.
    And no high speeds are required. One cyclist was riding on the wrong side of the path, when they see each other, they both move to the opposite side of the path and collided.

    Could easily happen even if each cyclist was only traveling at 8 mph. That is a 16 mph closure rate.
    Last edited by CB HI; 08-03-07 at 04:59 PM.

  22. #22
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,117
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    What makes height a factor is the speed with which impact occurs. It's a force issue, so it's not unreasonable to assume that someone was moving quickly. While in your case the forward speed may have been only 3mph, the speed with which the person's head impacted the ground was certainly higher.

    One of my sons had a pretty serious head injury from only 2 feet. He was sitting on a bar and fell over backwards pivoting. The total distance his head travelled was probably 5-6 feet and the speed was substantial. That combined with the fact the he impacted a very small surface (a concrete edge/lip) area meant more energy was transferred to a smaller area. I had to practically give the triage nurse a lesson in physics using illustrations to explain why the MOI was substantial and they'd need to order a ct immediately.
    The cyclist head injury from hitting the ground was from the vertical vector caused from the height of the fall, not the horizontal vector from the speed of the cyclist. Unless the cyclist is fixed at some rotational point near the ground, that horizontal vector is not converted to a vertical vector.

    Did your sons head really only travel a height of 2 feet off the ground? Or more likely, 2 feet from ground to his butt plus the extra 2 or 3 feet from butt to head. So the actual height of fall was 4 to 5 feet onto concrete. More than sufficient for a serious head injury. What horizontal force was imparted on your son which was converted to a vertical vector prior to his head hitting the ground. If there was no horizontal force, then injury was from the height.

    Please do give us a physics lesson.
    Last edited by CB HI; 08-03-07 at 05:01 PM.

  23. #23
    Junior Member Cool User Name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Erie, CO
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    And no high speeds are required. One cyclist was riding on the wrong side of the path, when they see each other, they both move to the opposite side of the path and collided.

    Could easily happen even if each cyclist was only traveling at 8 mph. That is a 16 mph closure rate.
    If you are both going eight miles an hour, and you both start to zig, then you hit the brakes and stop in time. Speed is what caused this fatality, that is just common sense.

    I found an article with more info.

    http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/8902507.html

    "Officers say it was coming down this hill that created the speed that led to this tragedy"

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm a Type 2 diabetic, an asthmatic and I also have some medication allergies. I always carry ID in about 3-4 places when I ride. I carry a couple of business cards in my underseat equipment bag (where I also carry an extra asthma inhaler, tire tools, lock, plastic bag to keep my seat dry in the rain, etc.). I have my name written on the back of my helmet, I usually carry a wallet with ID, and I wear a Medic Alert necklace that looks like a black dogtag. The Medic Alert system keeps your medical information on file, so EMS personnel can call an 800-number for any health issues they should know about, your contact information, etc. I work for a tribal health care organization that has its own hospital, so I've seen some of the emergency cases and know to have ID at all times. Medic Alert now has those keychain computer drives so you can transport your electronic health records with you. http://www.medicalert.org

  25. #25
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,117
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cool User Name View Post
    If you are both going eight miles an hour, and you both start to zig, then you hit the brakes and stop in time. Speed is what caused this fatality, that is just common sense.

    I found an article with more info.

    http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/8902507.html

    "Officers say it was coming down this hill that created the speed that led to this tragedy"
    Note that there were no eyewitnesses. Note that no one knows what speed either cyclist was traveling, bikes do have brakes. If one was going down hill, then one was going up hill. Guess what, the woman was going up hill based on the videos implication. Which means she likely had a slow speed. Her injury was on the back of her head, likely caused by flipping over the handlebars or simply falling to the side. That is not the type of injury which would be caused by the initial head on collision. Therefore, it was the fall to the ground that caused the injury.

    Just like you, the police have assumed a death had to involve speed, but the evidence is not there. If she had hit a vertical standing object with the back of her head, like a tree, then her speed would have been a factor; but we would be back to her going uphill at a slow speed. So if you want to now claim that the other cyclist plowed into her and knocked her back into a tree, she would also have significant chest injuries from the impact with the other cyclist which are not mentioned.

    The head injury to the back of the head with no mentioned chest injury points to a fall off the bike or flipping over the bar.

    The mans injuries have not been discribed, some, maybe even most of his injuries could have involved his speed, depending on what he impacted. We just do not know because the reports do not describe his injuries. Maybe jasongilbert can give us an update on his injuries.

    Remember, I was an eye witness to a cyclist v cyclist head on collision resulting with a woman having a severe head injury on the back of her head from her flipping over the bars and hitting her head on the ground. The closure rate in that accident was < 3 mph. Speed is not required for such a fatality. A fall from the height of a bicycle is sufficient for a head strike to be fatal. So your claim of “that is just common sense.” is misguided. I know what I am talking about in the accident I witnessed; it was my EMT that treated the cyclist and I was the safety official that did the followup interviews and mishap report.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •