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Thread: RIP young rider

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    I do not know this kid but I would like to recognize his passing

    http://www.zwire.com/site/tab9.cfm?n...d=559194&rfi=6
    Last edited by gmule; 08-11-07 at 11:02 PM.

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    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    light poles in the middle of the sidewalk - not a very good design

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    Junior Member Cool User Name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya View Post
    light poles in the middle of the sidewalk - not a very good design
    The pathways with light poles in the middle are wide enough for cars to drive on, where the trails are that wide they extend past the normal streetlight setback. Even if the trail was only half as wide, the streetlight would still be in the same spot.

    This was caused by going to fast for the conditions and no helmet.

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    Condolences to the family and friends of the deceased cyclist.

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    Senior Member John Wilke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya View Post
    light poles in the middle of the sidewalk - not a very good design
    I agree.

    Condolences to the family and trust that the organ donation was of great value to many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wilke
    "...and trust that the organ donation was of great value to many..."
    +1
    It is likely the organ recipients will be forever grateful and have the child in their prayers.

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    Senior Member piper_chuck's Avatar
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    It's always sad when something like this happens.

    It's also sad that the article focuses on the light pole and misses the opportunity to point out the importance of helmets: "Banks hit a light pole headfirst. He was not wearing a helmet."

    Parents need to teach their kids about the importance of helmets from a very early age. This way they never get used to not wearing them. My daughter does not get to use her bike, or go ice skating, unless she is wearing her helmet.

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    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    I am sorry the boy died. But it is nobody's fault but his and his parents for not enforcing his wearing a helmet. My DD is an avid roller blader. When she was younger we took them away from her for 2 weeks because I caught her a) without a helmet and b) blading where she wasn't supposed to. I realize that kids that age are growing and taking greater and greater risks every day. I have crashed into a few things by not paying attention to where I was going, so what should I do...sue the city because I didn't have the sense to swerve?

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    i too am sorry the kid died.

    I'm surprised at the absolute faith people have in a piece of molded styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic. If the kid was going fast enough to hit a bump in the road and lose complete control, i can only guess that he was traveling down a hill, too fast for his skill level, or not paying enough attention. In any case, he was probably going quite fast, and i'm not so sure how a piece of styrofoam will hold up to a direct hit with a steel pole. Sure, maybe it would have helped, but let's not get carried away and say it would have defintely saved him. we just don't know if that's true. If anything is to blame it's a 12 year old's skill level and a bump in the road. We might also add bad luck to that list ... i mean when i was twelve i went too fast for my own good and got off easy (as opposed to striking a light pole head first) with a few skinned knees or in one case a broken arm.

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    Senior Member piper_chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shavit View Post
    i too am sorry the kid died.

    I'm surprised at the absolute faith people have in a piece of molded styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic. If the kid was going fast enough to hit a bump in the road and lose complete control, i can only guess that he was traveling down a hill, too fast for his skill level, or not paying enough attention. In any case, he was probably going quite fast, and i'm not so sure how a piece of styrofoam will hold up to a direct hit with a steel pole. Sure, maybe it would have helped, but let's not get carried away and say it would have defintely saved him. we just don't know if that's true. If anything is to blame it's a 12 year old's skill level and a bump in the road. We might also add bad luck to that list ... i mean when i was twelve i went too fast for my own good and got off easy (as opposed to striking a light pole head first) with a few skinned knees or in one case a broken arm.
    No, we don't know for sure that it would have saved him. However, we do know that his odds would have been much better with the helmet than they were without. Knowing this, it's hard to understand why anyone would belittle the value of helmets by saying things like "I'm surprised at the absolute faith people have in a piece of molded styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic..."

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    "Much better odds" is even a stretch ... we just don't know.

    edit: In other words, we just don't know (from a very brief news article) if the kid struck the pole going 30 miles an hour. Or if the impact (helmet or no) would have caused brain trauma anyway ... i'm not trying to say helmets are worthless, just that we don't know.

    Let me clarify. If i had a twelve year old, i would absolutely make him/her wear a helmet, if not a full football or motorcycle helmet. Not so much for the random light pole that they may put their head into, but for minor falls. I just think it's a little more realistic to recognize the limitations of a piece of styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic. That's all, just recognize the limitations.
    Last edited by Shavit; 08-12-07 at 12:22 PM. Reason: just wanted to explain the "we just don't know"

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    Senior Member piper_chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shavit View Post
    "Much better odds" is even a stretch ... we just don't know.

    edit: In other words, we just don't know (from a very brief news article) if the kid struck the pole going 30 miles an hour. Or if the impact (helmet or no) would have caused brain trauma anyway ... i'm not trying to say helmets are worthless, just that we don't know.

    Let me clarify. If i had a twelve year old, i would absolutely make him/her wear a helmet, if not a full football or motorcycle helmet. Not so much for the random light pole that they may put their head into, but for minor falls. I just think it's a little more realistic to recognize the limitations of a piece of styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic. That's all, just recognize the limitations.
    Just as nobody knows that the helmet wouldn't have helped, nobody knows that whether it might have saved the kid. If something is known to have positive value, why argue against it, or belittle its value? Have you taken the time to READ the research? I have and it gave me a better idea, and appreciation, of the value of that "piece of molded styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic". Are they perfect? Nope, but it's a proven fact that wearing one is better than not. Since you're questioning the effectiveness of helmets, here are some statistics for you to ponder:
    • In 2002, nearly 288,900 children ages 14 and under were treated in hospital emergency rooms for bicycle related injuries. Nearly half (47 percent) of children ages 14 and under hospitalized for bicycle-related injuries are diagnosed with a traumatic brain injury.
    • Riding without a bicycle helmet significantly increases the risk of sustaining a head injury in the event of a crash. Non-helmeted riders are 14 times more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than helmeted riders.
    • Bicycle helmets have been shown to reduce the risk of head injury by as much as 85 percent and the risk of brain injury by as much as 88 percent. Bicycle helmets have also been shown to offer substantial protection to the forehead and midface.
    • It is estimated that 75 percent of fatal head injuries among child bicyclists could be prevented with a bicycle helmet.
    • Universal use of bicycle helmets by children ages 4 to 15 could prevent between 135 and 155 deaths, between 39,000 and 45,000 head injuries, and between 18,000 and 55,000 scalp and face injuries annually.
    My original point, is that it's a pity that the author of the article chose to focus on the location of the stupid light pole, instead of, or in addition to, the value of helmets in protecting one's head. It seems like another wasted opportunity to educate people on the value of helmets (which you seem to be questioning).

    Keep arguing against helmets if you wish. I've made my point. I'm sure you'll come up with a few more inane comments.
    Last edited by piper_chuck; 08-13-07 at 09:49 AM.

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    For me, kids dying are always the worst accidents. In the words of Neil Young, he'll never get to grow up, never get to be cool...

    I hate it when kids die.

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    quote from piper chuck:
    "Keep arguing against helmets if you wish. I've made my point."

    So when i said, "I'm not trying to say helmets are worthless" or that i would make my own theoretical child wear one, what part did you not understand? Let me say it again ... i'm not arguing against helmets, i just recognize that they may not help in the particular instance of someone flying head first into a steel light pole.

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    Senior Member piper_chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shavit View Post
    quote from piper chuck:
    "Keep arguing against helmets if you wish. I've made my point."

    So when i said, "I'm not trying to say helmets are worthless" or that i would make my own theoretical child wear one, what part did you not understand?
    I understand comments like ""Much better odds" is even a stretch ... we just don't know." pretty darn well. The statistics show the improvement in the odds quite well.

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    Piper Chuck:
    "The statistics show the improvement in the odds quite well."

    and yet none of them mention hitting a light pole head first.

    want to agree to disagree?

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    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Is the helmet debate appropriate here?

    Ask yourself this in the context of "What if it was someone you knew".

    Debate on this and other aspects can be taken up here:
    Tactical Analysis Thread: Cycling Related Fatalities/Serious Injury Incidents
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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    Senior Member sggoodri's Avatar
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    Lucas Banks, who would be 12 today, was cycling in the bike lane on Highlands Ranch Parkway July 5 when he hit what Douglas County deputies called an "unidentified object" and flipped his bicycle when it hit the curb.

    "We think he hit something on the sidewalk and flipped over his handlebars,"
    I'm confused - was the cyclist traveling in a bike lane or on a sidewalk? Did he hit a sidewalk-location object from the roadway side of the curb?

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    My Name is Matt Banks and I am (was) Lucas' uncle. I would like to set a few things straight here. First and foremost, my brother and family are in complete agreement on helmet use and bicycle safety. That being said, Luke was not wearing a helmet the day he died. He and his dad and brother were riding to the library together. My brother was hanging back to ride with Noah, Luke's little brother because he was having a hard time keeping up. The reason Luke wasn't wearing a helmet? Simple oversight, an oversight that will haunt my brother for the rest of his life. Nine times out of ten, Luke would ride with a helmet. My brother mandated it. That day they were in a rush and it was overlooked. If you are a parent then you can appreciate that. Heck if you have been around kids you can probably appreciate that.

    As for what actually happened it went like this. My brother was riding with Noah and Luke had raced ahead as 12 yr olds will. Luke loved to go fast and was 100% boy. He started down a steep hill and lost control of his bike. He was riding on the sidewalk and as he went out of control, his bike travelled into the bike lane. Observers stated that he attempted to pull the bike back up onto the sidewalk and as he did so his front wheel turned perpendicular to the frame and he was vaulted over the handlebars, flying into the pole. There was a Littleton PD officer at the intersection that told my brother that he estimated Lukes speed to be in the vicinity of 35mph. I am not sure the helmet would have helped but we will never know because he wasn't wearing one.

    This has been a hoorible thing for our family to endure. We have lost a son, a brother, a grandson, a cousin, a nephew. Luke was a fun loving outgoing boy that LOVED to ride his bike. Our family hopes that everyone takes two things from this tragedy; 1) Wear a helmet!!, and 2) Ride with your kids and share in their joy every day because you never know when that day may be your last.

    Thank you for your words and condolences

    On behalf of my brother and our family
    Matt Banks

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    sad

    Quote Originally Posted by piper_chuck View Post
    No, we don't know for sure that it would have saved him. However, we do know that his odds would have been much better with the helmet than they were without. Knowing this, it's hard to understand why anyone would belittle the value of helmets by saying things like "I'm surprised at the absolute faith people have in a piece of molded styrofoam and a thin layer of plastic..."

    Helmets absolutely do not work at impact speeds above 14 mph this is their maximum tested rating. When you hit an immovable object at speeds greater than 14 mph the material crushes and transfers the remaining energy to your head.

    It is very sad indeed when someone, especially a young person is involved in a fatal and or serious accident and it appears in this case nothing could have been done by onlookers or family members to prevent it. Too much speed and loss of control can and will result in these unfortunate accidents. As much as it hurts, the family should not make themselves feel responsible, these things unfortunately happen and my heart goes out to them.

    As an aside, there was a recent accident in Seattle were a young cyclist had a work van turn left in front of her while she was going 25 mph down a slight grade and she could not stop and impacted the side of the van, killing her instantly. She had the right of way and she was wearing a helmet and it did not save her. This accident was very similar as far as the cyclist directly hitting a solid metal object. It is simply not fair to transfer our grief to blind helmet advocacy. We cyclists must realize the limitations of any safety gear and practice safer cycling in order to prevent these unfortunate incidents and at the same time, we have to accept that at times we cannot avoid every scenario no matter what we do or even fail to do.

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    Change=inevitable. ?=+/- JosephPaul86's Avatar
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    My condolences to the family.

    I used to live in Highlands Ranch and rode to school(Crest Hill Middle, Highland Ranch HS). The bike paths were very handy, allowing children to stray from traffic except the fact in many areas the sidewalks would meet with the curb of the road, and light poles were at the curb and sidewalk area. I experienced the issue on the commute to/from school when passing other bicyclist or peds.

    I wouldn't point the blame full yon the kid, and sure he should've had a helmet on. But considering Highlands Ranch is a fairly new, "perfect" comunity, it seems there was little thought process to the layout/safety of the bike routes and sidewalks.

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    Thank you, Matt.

    Condolences on the loss of your nephew - you and your family are in our thoughts and prayers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by piper_chuck View Post
    If something is known to have positive value, why argue against it, or belittle its value?
    To counter unfeeling statements by previous responders to this post who callously brush aside this terrible tragedy by making crude and unfeeling statements to the effect that the kid and his bereaved parents have no one to blame but themselves since the kid was being a kid and the parents didn't make certain he was wearing a helmet.

    Without knowing any more details than those stated, the parents and the kid, himself, are blamed.

    We don't know if he owned a helmet and wasn't wearing it, and we certainly don't know how fast he was going. We don't even know what it is that caused him to lose control. Even the investigators at the scene can't determine that exactly.

    But, since he wasn't wearing a helmet, some of the 'bible' thumpers here can pop out their chest and proclaim that the kid and his parents have only themselves to blame.

    Plenty of us get tired of hearing that sort "from wrote" thoughtless babble.

    Edit: The above was written before I finished reading the thread - so, from the words of one who was there, we have a better picture of what actually occurred. Too much speed and too little experience at handling the bike - all factors that could easily befall a 12 year old. My sincerest condolences to the family.

    Caruso
    Last edited by Carusoswi; 09-16-07 at 03:16 AM.

  24. #24
    Senior Member StrangeWill's Avatar
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    Whoa whoa whoa, an accident caused by excessive speed and made worse by a lack of a helmet and we blame the location of the lamppost?
    Woot for American thinking.


    Anyway terribly sad. 35 MPH? I've gone up to 33mph in the past 100 miles.

  25. #25
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piper_chuck View Post
    Have you taken the time to READ the research?
    Oh no, that would immediately put the argument to rest.

    35 mph is unbelievable. It's not that easy getting a bike up to 35 mph.

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