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Thread: low traffic

  1. #1
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    low traffic

    Just wondering about the low traffic on the safety and advocacy forum.

    Seems to me, that advocacy is important to cycling because a large section of the general public have misinformed opinions about cycling.

    *Are the members here really lacksidasical on the subject,

    *or is the way the "debates" held on how best to advocate, so off putting, that no one cares much to spend much time here,

    *or, is it that few think the "debates" held here have little to do with informing the general public on we are beneficial to them?
    Last edited by closetbiker; 12-21-07 at 04:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bicure's Avatar
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    Well...

    Suffice to say that if most folks here expressed themselves more like you, I'd be a lot more comfortable posting.

    The level of aggression and rudeness here is really shocking to me, and incomprehensible.

    This includes the Mods.

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    Part of it too is that 90% of the threads degenerate into the same tired topics such as whether to wear a helmet (or not), whether to ride VC (or not), whether all motorists should be exterminated (or not), etc. The way it usually works is someone starts a thread and it gets about 5 well-reasoned comments before the thread gets hijacked.

    So basically little actual advocacy can take place before the threads get polluted.

    Of course, I think there's possibly a simpler reason as to why the forums are less trafficked lately - it's winter, and I bet a lot of cyclists don't bother playing on the forums when they're not riding. Not sure if it's lack of interest or general shame.

  4. #4
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    I dont know why I come here.
    I always do though. I agree with very little of
    what I read, and judging by responses to some of my posts, people
    here dont agree with me, either. I think the majority of the people who
    post here would have very different personalities than mine in real life.
    I 'advocate' differently. I wave to people, talk to peds, signal cars
    its OK to right hook me, stay out of peoples way, etc....I want people to
    maybe think after looking at me, bicycle commuting might actually
    be more fun than the 'work' they might think it is. I think in our cause for
    equality we win them over first , then hit them with the lane taking,
    right-of-way, rules stuff, not visa-versa.

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=- View Post
    I dont know why I come here.
    I always do though. I agree with very little of
    what I read, and judging by responses to some of my posts, people
    here dont agree with me, either. I think the majority of the people who
    post here would have very different personalities than mine in real life.
    I 'advocate' differently. I wave to people, talk to peds, signal cars
    its OK to right hook me, stay out of peoples way, etc....I want people to
    maybe think after looking at me, bicycle commuting might actually
    be more fun than the 'work' they might think it is.
    I in our cause for
    equality we win them over first , then hit them with the lane taking,
    right-of-way, rules stuff, not visa-versa.
    Here you preach the same kind of philosophy of cooperation that I advocate, though we differ on some of the details. It's not okay to hook me - but I don't allow that to happen so it's a moot point - and I do stay out of people's way, when it's safe and reasonable to do so, but not when doing so gets in the way of me getting to my destination safely and reasonable.

    Now, is this an example of what Mr. Underbridge was talking about? Is this hijacking the thread?

    I don't know why the traffic has been low here, except it's not because of me. I haven't been posting much here lately either. For example, I haven't started a thread in A&S since early October.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bicure's Avatar
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    Great posts!

    Great ideas!

    I think a lot of the anti-car emotions expressed here (by those who express them) come from the often outrageously violent conduct of motorists, and this leads to a certain degree of radicalization for some.

    What mystifies me is why we can't speak to one another civilly, and without personal attacks, accusations, rudeness, cruelty, etc.

    We're all over the age of 12 here, and the conduct of the name-callers is utterly baffling to me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
    I haven't been posting much here lately either.
    191 posts in the last month and 43 in the past week = "not posting much"?

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Some of us regulars are too accustomed to each other. It would help if you newcomers would point out inappropriate behavior when you see it.

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugmenot View Post
    191 posts in the last month and 43 in the past week = "not posting much"?
    Well, it's more than I realized, but it's still pretty light for me. I mean, this is going to count as one, and it took me 20 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bicure View Post
    Great posts!

    Great ideas!

    I think a lot of the anti-car emotions expressed here (by those who express them) come from the often outrageously violent conduct of motorists, and this leads to a certain degree of radicalization for some.

    What mystifies me is why we can't speak to one another civilly, and without personal attacks, accusations, rudeness, cruelty, etc.

    We're all over the age of 12 here, and the conduct of the name-callers is utterly baffling to me.

    This is why we do not have the clout an NRA type organization
    might have. We cannot even come to agreement on the simplest
    of issues. We are seen as weak tinkerbells or DUI bums by the public.
    How does that change ?? I dont know, but unfortunately I dont
    believe it will change anytime soon.

  11. #11
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    Just wondering about the low traffic on the safety and advocacy forum.

    Seems to me, that advocacy is important to cycling because a large section of the general public have misinformed opinions about cycling.

    *Are the members here really lacksidasical on the subject,

    *or is the way the "debates" held on how best to advocate, so off putting, that no one cares much to spend much time here,

    *or, is it that few think the "debates" held here have little to do with informing the general public on we are beneficial to them?





    I think, and believe me, this is only my opinion. I think that the members here on this forum have got almost nothing to do with "advocacy" or safety.... I think that most people who come here and express their opinions have little to give to the "biking" world. I think that most people here are only here to spout their concept of the way things ought to be, If you ride everyday, and you live....than you you have a story to tell. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to ride. You know what's good for you and if you keep it up, then, it's great. I don't, and never will see the reason for all the debate.

  12. #12
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    Sorry about the extra you....

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    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    I guess different places have different attitudes.

    As much as I don't like some of the things have been done here, I have to give it to the local advocacy groups to get cycling more accepted in our province.

    The courts up here accept us as equal (for the most part), I think the average motorist (at least in the city) accepts cyclists, I just wish they'd drive better.

    Maybe it is just the time of year that keeps the traffic down. I know I'm busy.

  14. #14
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    I wish I could say the same for St. Pete, but I hear more, and more, that people are getting run over on their bikes. Down here, it's not just a matter of looking, it's a matter of looking everywhere....because you have to, It's not enough to just ride your lane anymore, people really do not want bikes on the road.

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    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    Sub: Why don't people like bike rider's????????!!!!!!!!

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    Senior Member Bicure's Avatar
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    GREAT question!!!

    Because we are noble & wise?

    Beautiful & superior in every way???

    A nagging reminder that one need not spend years in a hideous slave-cage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar View Post
    Sub: Why don't people like bike rider's????????!!!!!!!!

    Very simple.

    We hold people up and it is not an 'acceptable' hold-up like a red lite or waiting for a
    closer parking spot to open up.

    Really. By far and away the most and coincedentally only complaint about
    road riding bicyclers I have ever heard is that we hold people up. Forget that it might only be for
    5 seconds give or take, its the unacceptability of the situation. We are not worthy of slowing for.

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    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    5 Seconds is nothing to the people who regularly "obey" the so-called law...There is nothing, neither wise nor noble, That will compensate for the misgivings of idiots...............................

  19. #19
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=-
    I wave to people, talk to peds, signal cars its OK to right hook me, stay out of peoples way, etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar
    If you ride everyday, and you live....than you you have a story to tell.
    I think this is very important. The simple act of riding. Law already establishes our right to the road, as long as people exercise that right, it becomes a political point to uphold that right. Hopefuly, acceptance will follow

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    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    "Just wondering about the low traffic on the safety and advocacy forum."

    Personally, I go to the main list of forums and just scan through and see what's interesting. So it's not like I sit on this one forum.

    As to low traffic- there could be multiple reasons. One is that the number of posts on a topic is not going to be connected to the to the importance of the topic. If everyone agrees on a topic, you won't have posts on that. So you don't see a multitude of "Let's don't get cancer" posts. Secondly, the posts will somewhat relate to new happenings or experiences in the topic. A lot of the items discussed here, such as helmet laws or bike lanes, have been kicked around for 20 years or more. In contrast, when you look at the bicycle itself, there are always new products or people discovering old products, and that keeps the posting level up.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    Just wondering about the low traffic on the safety and advocacy forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar View Post
    Sub: Why don't people like bike rider's????????!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bicure View Post
    GREAT question!!!

    Because we are noble & wise?

    Beautiful & superior in every way???

    A nagging reminder that one need not spend years in a hideous slave-cage?
    Over the top rhetoric/behavior and bad/wacky/counterproductive (for bicycling advocacy) rants/actions from a relative few characters?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar View Post
    Sub: Why don't people like bike rider's????????!!!!!!!!
    For one thing, there are way too many rude, scoff-law riders. They give the rest of us a bad name. Don't you get irritated when you are driving and some jerk forces you into the oncoming lane to pass, and then passes you while you are stopped at the red light, which he runs, and then makes you do it all over again in the next block? I do.

  23. #23
    Senior Member ken cummings's Avatar
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    Just a thought. In the real world I know some of the people who are actively involved in the local advocacy group. Many of them are such intense people. Maybe they need to be if they are butting heads with politicians, the DMV, and hostile motorists. Some of them give me the feeling that "If you are not with us then you are against us." Yes, the work needs to be done. I just hang around the edges, help in a low key way, and try to be a good example when I ride. When a real activist gets in my face I back off for a while until I cool down then try again.
    This space open

  24. #24
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Outside of riding every day, I tend to react to press that paints cycling in a negative light. I'm more reactive than proactive.

    I've been published literally dozens of times in newspapers and magazines. I haven't been on TV though.

    I'm concerned about the general publics perceptions towards cycling.

    I think this forum has helped me refine my arguments and presentations.

    As an example as to how the press might make things move a little easier, I posted on a bike lane problem on this forum recently. Previously, I had another issue in the same place dealing with the same people. YVR agreed with me about the problem I brought up and decided to change things because of my questions, but it was very hard to get any response and it took a long time to get a commitment. Further, it's been a year and they still haven't got around to make the change.

    This time, over a period of days, I called the cops first, wrote 2 letters to 2 papers that were published, then I called YVR. YVR had had a call from the cops and they were already movong on changing things. Public perception made a difference. It wasn't just 1 guy calling to complain. It was the cops and possible negative publicity on how YVR wasn't making things as safe as they could that made the difference here.
    Last edited by closetbiker; 12-22-07 at 11:59 AM.

  25. #25
    Banned. Bekologist's Avatar
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    Is this the thread where bicyclists go to confess awareness of their cycling inferiorities?

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