Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36
  1. #1
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Paoli, Wisconsin
    My Bikes
    RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
    Posts
    9,980
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Illinois passes bill requiring 3-foot clearance while passing

    http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/c...LAW_S1.article

    Note the statistics from 2006 - 9 bicycle-vehicle accidents per day and 26 bicycle deaths, in Illinois alone.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

    There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post

  2. #2
    Senior Member slim_77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    chicago,Il
    My Bikes
    yes please
    Posts
    2,401
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Glad they made an entire story of it. Couldn't find it anywhere in the Chicago Tribune.

    edit: link to the full text of law. clicky.
    Last edited by slim_77; 12-30-07 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #3
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Astonishingly, at least one Bike Forums A&S safety nannies is critical of three foot minimum passing laws because he thinks they send the wrong message to the public.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  4. #4
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    15,173
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    Astonishingly, at least one Bike Forums A&S safety nannies is critical of three foot minimum passing laws because he thinks they send the wrong message to the public.
    What would this person propose instead? Personally, I strongly support the 3-foot passing law and would apply it to all vehicles moving at greater than pedestrian speeds.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  5. #5
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's been written he thinks its all golden out there on the roads if a bicyclist is properely positioned and throwing the right combination of superVC buttwaggles and steely-eyed glares to the motorists.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 12-31-07 at 08:12 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  6. #6
    Fattest Thin Man Az B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Directly above the center of the earth
    My Bikes
    Miyata 610, Vinco V, Rocky Mountain Element
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While this is a good thing, let's not get too excited. Without proper driver training and police enforcement, it really means next to nothing.

    Az

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    What would this person propose instead? Personally, I strongly support the 3-foot passing law and would apply it to all vehicles moving at greater than pedestrian speeds.
    Since Bek's memory must be failing (again), the reason to be against a 3 foot passing law, which would take the place of a "safe distance" law, is that it might encourage motorists to only try and give 3 feet when often more is necessary, such as at higher speeds. I personally do not want to be passed at 3 feet by someone going 50mph more than me, especially not a vehicle on the larger side. No reasonable person would pass a pedestrian that close and I'd prefer not to do anything to make people feel that it's ok to pass a cyclist that close.

  8. #8
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    you so vigorously defend your mentor the safety nanny, joe!

    I beleive the statue would encourage motorists to give AT LEAST 3 feet of passing clearances the way you intrepret it.

    It puts 3 feet MINIMUM passing into the drivers' manuals. You think that's worse than educating motorists to simply 'pass safely?' and it also gives weight in the eventuality of bicyclist/motorist accidents. If a bike is hit by a passing vehicle, proving fault in the accident will be easer to ascribe to the motorist.

    Do you OFTEN ride roads with 50MPH speed differentials and why do you feel a 3 feet minimum passing law WOULDN'T get you better treatment from motorists? You really believe a 3 foot passing law would get more motorists passing less safely?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    NE IL
    My Bikes
    Surly Long Haul Trucker, Giant Cypress DX
    Posts
    644
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Illinois 3 foot law does not replace the "safe distance" requirement, it adds to it.

    The law reads:
    (d) The operator of a motor vehicle overtaking a bicycle or individual proceeding in the same direction on a highway shall leave a safe distance, but not less than 3 feet, when passing the bicycle or individual and shall maintain that distance until safely past the overtaken bicycle or individual.

    That same bill added the words "and safe" as bolded in the next section on road position:

    Sec. 11-1505. Position of bicycles and motorized pedal cycles on roadways -Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.
    (a) Any person operating a bicycle or motorized pedal cycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable and safe to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under the following situations:
    1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle, motorized pedal cycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or
    2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or
    3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, motorized pedal cycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For purposes of this subsection, a "substandard width lane" means a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle or motorized pedal cycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.


    The 3 foot passing minimum also appears to help define "substandard lane width" in item 3 of the road position section.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I beleive the statue would encourage motorists to give AT LEAST 3 feet of passing clearances the way you intrepret it.
    "At least 3 feet" still can be interpretted as "3 feet is OK."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    It puts 3 feet MINIMUM passing into the drivers' manuals. You think that's worse than educating motorists to simply 'pass safely?' and it also gives weight in the eventuality of bicyclist/motorist accidents. If a bike is hit by a passing vehicle, proving fault in the accident will be easer to ascribe to the motorist.
    Why not put something into the driver's manual about the reasons for passing at a safe distance? Simply saying 3 feet minimum does nothing to encourage motorists to give cyclists plenty of space. If a cyclist is hit by a passing vehicle, OBVIOUSLY the pass was NOT made at a safe distance. Having the 3 foot standard does nothing, although it could give a motorist an out who thought he was passing a cyclist at 3 feet but passed closer and the resulting wind blast caused the cyclist to crash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    Do you OFTEN ride roads with 50MPH speed differentials and why do you feel a 3 feet minimum passing law WOULDN'T get you better treatment from motorists? You really believe a 3 foot passing law would get more motorists passing less safely?
    I do often ride roads where there's the potential for a 50mph speed differential and I do not think a 3 feet minimum law would make any difference in how I am passed. Do you think motorists will suddenly decide to study the applicable cyclist laws in the vehicle code when this law is passed? Even if a motorist does read the law, do you want them remembering "3 feet" or "safe"? I'd prefer the latter. I certainly don't expect them to remember all the little intricacies of the wording of the law. Hell, the cops around me don't even know the law that well. But they've always passed at a safe distance
    Last edited by joejack951; 12-31-07 at 07:12 PM.

  11. #11
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    except when they're pulling you over and ticketing you
    Last edited by Bekologist; 12-31-07 at 07:27 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    except when they're pulling you over and ticketing you for riding too far right than practicable
    Too far left The officer was completely in the left lane when he pulled next to me.

  13. #13
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,872
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Az B View Post
    While this is a good thing, let's not get too excited. Without proper driver training and police enforcement, it really means next to nothing.

    Az

    +1

  14. #14
    Conservative Hippie
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Wakulla Co. FL
    Posts
    4,271
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
    Illinois passes bill requiring 3-foot clearance while passing
    I think it's a good law, but you won't see much difference on the road. I didn't when FL did the same thing a couple years ago. The drivers who were passing with a safe separation will continue to do so, the cagers who didn't still won't, regardless what the law says.

  15. #15
    Arrogant Safety Nanny
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Santa Maria, CA
    My Bikes
    2007 Trek 7.2 FX, 2008 Trek Madone 5.2
    Posts
    554
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    From the article:
    Some drivers will move all the way over into another lane when passing a bicycle, which is a nice gesture but unnecessary and possibly dangerous to the driver.
    I'm just wondering...is the writer trying to imply that it's safer to give a 3 foot passing distance than a full lane? How could it be dangerous to move fully into the next lane to pass a cyclist? This statement seems to be an opinion from the writer that the 3 foot passing law will discourage motorists from making "unnecessary and possibly dangerous" complete lane changes to pass cyclists.

    Riding a 55mph road on a regular basis, I have been passed by full size tractor trailers traveling near the speed limit, probably at about 3 feet, and that is a little too close for comfort, especially if I'm riding into the usual 15mph or so headwind. I really like the wording of the actual law, but I hope the message given to the general public doesn't get dumbed down to the point where people only get the "3 foot passing distance" part of it and not the "safe distance" part.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffB502 View Post
    From the article: I'm just wondering...is the writer trying to imply that it's safer to give a 3 foot passing distance than a full lane? How could it be dangerous to move fully into the next lane to pass a cyclist? This statement seems to be an opinion from the writer that the 3 foot passing law will discourage motorists from making "unnecessary and possibly dangerous" complete lane changes to pass cyclists.

    Riding a 55mph road on a regular basis, I have been passed by full size tractor trailers traveling near the speed limit, probably at about 3 feet, and that is a little too close for comfort, especially if I'm riding into the usual 15mph or so headwind. I really like the wording of the actual law, but I hope the message given to the general public doesn't get dumbed down to the point where people only get the "3 foot passing distance" part of it and not the "safe distance" part.
    Exactly my point. I didn't read the article otherwise I probably would have caught the same statement. As you have stated, that's completely the opposite attitude that motorists need to have. It's just as important to not have motorists thinking that way on a 2 lane road as it is on a 4 lane road.

  17. #17
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
    My Bikes
    Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
    Posts
    7,906
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Az B View Post
    While this is a good thing, let's not get too excited. Without proper driver training and police enforcement, it really means next to nothing.

    Az

    They have that law in Fl, too.
    Insert 500 roflmao smilies -----here-----.


    Thank goodness for lanes ! At least we get 20 inches or so
    -ADVOCACY-☜ Radical VC = Car people on bikes. Just say "NO"

  18. #18
    Rouleur gattm99's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    HARRISBURG IL
    My Bikes
    ROAD MOUNTAIN
    Posts
    624
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We were talking about that while riding Saturday Morning. While I don't see it having much of an effect it does put bicycle saftey into the publics view for a moment, and I can't really see how it could hurt.

    At the very least it at least reminds some people we are legally allowed on the roads.

  19. #19
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,972
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gattm99 View Post
    it does put bicycle saftey into the publics view for a moment,
    Which is why there needs to be a continuous reminder of safe passing laws (which already exist outside of any 3ft law).

    I have more than several times heard the AZ 3ft law being interpreted as 'Give cyclist 3ft of space [on the right side of the road]' Twice by cyclists!

    That is now a common gross misinterpretation that can only be prevented thru public awareness campaigns. The alternate is to not have a 3ft law and instead focus on safe passing awareness which is less likely to be mis-stated.

    Al

  20. #20
    Fritz M richardmasoner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    Trek, Spesh, GT, Centurion
    Posts
    954
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    (A wasted opportunity to discuss real bike advocacy by descending yet again into name calling. *sigh*)
    3 foot passing laws are a distraction from real issues of cyclist safety and waste of political capital. I'm in agreement with Paul Dorn, who writes (regarding a similar 3 foot law in California) that "this bill will offer negligible improvement for bicyclists, and is a distraction from more pressing priorities. AB 60 is a trifling piece of legislation for California's bicycling community, which has many legislative needs and, sadly, minimal political clout."

    Read more about his and other's views on the 3 foot law at his Bike Commute website. Paul is former director of the California Bicycle Coalition, served on the board of the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition, and was involved in the early days of San Francisco Critical Mass. In case you have any unwarranted suspicions, Paul is also a committed advocate of facilities for cyclists.

  21. #21
    Fritz M richardmasoner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    Trek, Spesh, GT, Centurion
    Posts
    954
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For those who believe the myth that a hit-from-behind is prima facie evidence of violation of the 3 foot law: In many hit-from-behind reports, (1) the responding police take statements from the motorist only, even when the cyclist survives; (2) the motorist statement is invariably "He swerved right in front of me!"; and (3) if the cyclist survives, the police tickets the cyclist for impeding traffic.

  22. #22
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,916
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by richardmasoner View Post
    For those who believe the myth that a hit-from-behind is prima facie evidence of violation of the 3 foot law: In many hit-from-behind reports, (1) the responding police take statements from the motorist only, even when the cyclist survives; (2) the motorist statement is invariably "He swerved right in front of me!"; and (3) if the cyclist survives, the police tickets the cyclist for impeding traffic.
    And what would you expect the motorist to say? "Oh no, he was right there, but I clipped him anyway?"

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,916
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    Which is why there needs to be a continuous reminder of safe passing laws (which already exist outside of any 3ft law).

    I have more than several times heard the AZ 3ft law being interpreted as 'Give cyclist 3ft of space [on the right side of the road]' Twice by cyclists!

    That is now a common gross misinterpretation that can only be prevented thru public awareness campaigns. The alternate is to not have a 3ft law and instead focus on safe passing awareness which is less likely to be mis-stated.

    Al
    Apparently motorists forget all the laws they were taught earlier in life as soon as they turn the key... I've noticed several signs around here stating: "Must stop for pedestrians in crosswalk" and "Must stop for pedestrians before turning." These are not unusual intersections... but apparently motorists have "not stopped" in the past... and must be constantly reminded.

  24. #24
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,972
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Apparently motorists forget all the laws they were taught earlier in life as soon as they turn the key... I've noticed several signs around here stating: "Must stop for pedestrians in crosswalk" and "Must stop for pedestrians before turning." These are not unusual intersections... but apparently motorists have "not stopped" in the past... and must be constantly reminded.
    Forget is a problem, but just as bad and in this case worse is misinterpretation. Whenever I ask non-cyclists about if they know the 3ft law about 1/3 of them tell me that it means giving cyclist 3ft of pavement space on the side of the road.

    So this mis-interpretation creates a worse effect for cyclists who are not using the 3ft margin of the road then if the law (or really the marketing of the law) had not happened at all.

    Al

  25. #25
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,916
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    Forget is a problem, but just as bad and in this case worse is misinterpretation. Whenever I ask non-cyclists about if they know the 3ft law about 1/3 of them tell me that it means giving cyclist 3ft of pavement space on the side of the road.

    So this mis-interpretation creates a worse effect for cyclists who are not using the 3ft margin of the road then if the law (or really the marketing of the law) had not happened at all.

    Al
    arrrg. Yet again the laws are interpreted by the minds of those that feel they own them... There is no solution. But then again without 3 foot laws... it's "get on the sidewalk."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •