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  1. #1
    Senior Member Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
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    Driver kills again - a 16-year old cyclist this time

    I wasn't going to post this when I saw it, because I thought it really was just the same old thing. A 23-year old lost control in a street race and hit and killed a 16-year old riding his bike on the sidewalk. Then I saw this report, which says this same moron killed another guy while racing a few years ago.

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    Kamek ralph12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    I wasn't going to post this when I saw it, because I thought it really was just the same old thing. A 23-year old lost control in a street race and hit and killed a 16-year old riding his bike on the sidewalk. Then I saw this report, which says this same moron killed another guy while racing a few years ago.
    WTF

    This menace should be locked in prison for the rest of his life. He should never get the opportunity to drive a car and kill again.

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    If you get busted in Texas you can kiss your license good bye. I know of a few people who got busted street racing and they were unable to get insurance without paying $500+ a month. There is a reason why there are tracks, it is a shame that people will spend thousands of dollars on their cars, but won't spend the $25 to go to a track and race legally.

    Street racing is lame anyways.

    Lets hope that the legal system will work correctly this time and keep this guy off the streets for and from driving another car for good.

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    Could the LAB afford to hire, say, Blackwater mercenaries, to cleanse society of some of these vermin?

  5. #5
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    I wonder what the facts would be for a person to be involved yet not charged in a similar event four years ago?

    If he was a passenger, does that qualify as involved?

  6. #6
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    I wonder what the facts would be for a person to be involved yet not charged in a similar event four years ago?

    If he was a passenger, does that qualify as involved?
    In a street race, the drivers bear the ultimate responsibility and should be held fully accountable for their actions. However, one can reasonably argue that passengers and spectators, who provide encouragement and admiration, are part of the problem, as well.
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  7. #7
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    In a street race, the drivers bear the ultimate responsibility and should be held fully accountable for their actions. However, one can reasonably argue that passengers and spectators, who provide encouragement and admiration, are part of the problem, as well.
    But in a legal sense, are they generally held accountable?

  8. #8
    livin' the nightmare syn0n's Avatar
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    Passengers shouldn't be, necessarily. They're sort of trapped there if the driver decides to race. I don't expect them to jump out of a moving car, for example, if they object to a race. And contrary to what you may think, not all street racing is a drag race from a light. Sometimes they see each other while moving, slow down a bit, hit the horn three times, and then open the taps. A passenger can't really do anything in such a situation.

    This guy needs to be in prison. Plain and simple.

  9. #9
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
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    I understand that Ontario has recently implemented some pretty tough speeding laws. If you're doing more than 50kph over the limit, they impound your car right there. It doesn't matter if you're a street racer or a soccer mom cruising down the highway. They impound it (presumably temporarily) and leave you on the side of the road.

    Anyone from that neck of the woods care to comment on whether it's working?
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  10. #10
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    Senior Member Zan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    But in a legal sense, are they generally held accountable?
    I can only speak from Canadian Law.

    They could be held accountable for abetting, counseling, or aiding (in a sense). Depends on the situation, though. Most likely the passenger would be held for abetting, or nothing at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    Anyone from that neck of the woods care to comment on whether it's working?
    I'm gonna have to go with "no".




    Unless a bunch of guys going 149km/hr on the 100 kph highway qualifies as success. I'll keep watching and see what happens next, I guess.

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    Opt-in Member GreenGrasshoppr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    Anyone from that neck of the woods care to comment on whether it's working?
    yes and no... some 2300 drivers have been charged since that law was enacted on Sept 20, 2007.

    and according to this article, people think that "but I was not racing" is a good defence against a charge:
    http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...0W3EjTqRkKfjMg

    so IMO, not enough people have been charged and convicted yet to convince the majority of the speeders to slow down.

    also, the OPP chief says that people are still not getting the "dont drink and drive" message, despite years of awareness campaings, and is demanding tougher penalties:
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/can...html?id=209515

  13. #13
    Senior Member Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
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    In Florida, there is a mandatory drivers license suspension for a person convicted of street racing. The trouble is that it's difficult to prove racing rather than just speeding. We've all seen the a**holes that zip in and out of traffic, maybe racing or possibly just being a jerk because they have a hopped up Civic with loud pipes and they don't care about paying for the gas they waste.

    Here's the answer. There needs to be a 100% tax on aftermarket car parts used to turn standard cars into street racers. I don't know much about what it takes to hop up a car, but I've seen enough of them to know they, and their drivers, are dangerous. If some jerkwad wants to spend $500 on parts, maybe he won't if it will cost $1,000. Such a tax would be just like a lottery - if you don't like the tax, you don't have to pay it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    In Florida, there is a mandatory drivers license suspension for a person convicted of street racing. The trouble is that it's difficult to prove racing rather than just speeding. We've all seen the a**holes that zip in and out of traffic, maybe racing or possibly just being a jerk because they have a hopped up Civic with loud pipes and they don't care about paying for the gas they waste.

    Here's the answer. There needs to be a 100% tax on aftermarket car parts used to turn standard cars into street racers. I don't know much about what it takes to hop up a car, but I've seen enough of them to know they, and their drivers, are dangerous. If some jerkwad wants to spend $500 on parts, maybe he won't if it will cost $1,000. Such a tax would be just like a lottery - if you don't like the tax, you don't have to pay it.
    On a turbocharged car, you can add a manual boost controller for $50 (or make your own for less) and get 50+hp, assuming the engine can take it (and most will at least for a little while). Most of the "hopped up" cars you see just have an aftermarket exhaust with a straight thru muffler and some lowering springs. Good for making noise and looking cool but most likely, the actual performance of the car is hardly affected. Just about any econobox can do 100+mph though which is more than enough speed to get in a lot of trouble on surface streets.

  15. #15
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph12 View Post
    WTF

    This menace should be locked in prison for the rest of his life. He should never get the opportunity to drive a car and kill again.
    No way, then we have to pay for his imprisonment....I say execute him, crush the car, and bill his parents for both actions.

    Racetracks exist for this type of behavior (I have a track racing background myself)....these idiots need to start using them. Affording track time is no problem if you form or join a car club, so you can combine cash to pay for the track (some tracks are pretty pricey to rent out for a day).
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  16. #16
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    In Florida, there is a mandatory drivers license suspension for a person convicted of street racing. The trouble is that it's difficult to prove racing rather than just speeding. We've all seen the a**holes that zip in and out of traffic, maybe racing or possibly just being a jerk because they have a hopped up Civic with loud pipes and they don't care about paying for the gas they waste.

    Here's the answer. There needs to be a 100% tax on aftermarket car parts used to turn standard cars into street racers. I don't know much about what it takes to hop up a car, but I've seen enough of them to know they, and their drivers, are dangerous. If some jerkwad wants to spend $500 on parts, maybe he won't if it will cost $1,000. Such a tax would be just like a lottery - if you don't like the tax, you don't have to pay it.
    The problem is this: how do you differentiate aftermarket from a 3rd party replacement part?

    Is the Edelbrock fuel injection conversion kit an economy or performance upgrade? (it's actually both when converting a carbeurated big block to FI). Should some guy get penalized an addition $3-5,000 for trying to get an extra 5mpg out of his truck?

    We get taxed enough as is in all aspects of life, and real performance already costs real money. Those fart-can exhausts and such add very little if any power (many of these kits are actually misused and REDUCE power), and the real upgrades are often too hardcore for these types to install (such as boring out the engine, increasing stroke, boring out the throttle body, and other topics where a slight miscalculation can result in severe engine damage).

    just enforce the laws in the books....slam these guys with everything under the law, and most importantly, prove to the world that driving is NOT A RIGHT....it will be taken away from those who cannot handle it in a responsible manner.

    It's the lack of enforcement of the last part of that which has lead to this.
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  17. #17
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    And there should be a 10,000% tax on booze,it kills more people in a year then street racers will in your lifetime.Sure your not running for office somewhere???
    Everything should be as simple as possible...But not more so.---Albert Einstein

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    When it comes to cars and driving, Amerikans aren't taxed halfway near enough! Anything that has the potential to allow a motor vehicle to be driven over legal highway speed limits should be taxed beyond affordability. Also, car owners under 21 years old should have a co-title to their vehicle held by their state's DMV and the car subject to immediate confiscation in the case of gross (racing, DUI, extreme speeding) moving violations.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
    And there should be a 10,000% tax on booze,it kills more people in a year then street racers will in your lifetime.Sure your not running for office somewhere???
    You're ignoring the rate effect like most people do. The vast majority of adults who comsume alcohol do so without killing anyone as a result; I suspect the fraction of street racers who kill people is far higher.

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  21. #21
    livin' the nightmare syn0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    Here's the answer. There needs to be a 100% tax on aftermarket car parts used to turn standard cars into street racers. I don't know much about what it takes to hop up a car, but I've seen enough of them to know they, and their drivers, are dangerous. If some jerkwad wants to spend $500 on parts, maybe he won't if it will cost $1,000. Such a tax would be just like a lottery - if you don't like the tax, you don't have to pay it.
    Oh please. The vast majority of people I know who do performance modifications to their cars are the kind who never would think of racing on the street. As was previously mentioned, a lot of the "street racer" cars, the little econoboxes, are mostly show, not go. Lowering springs, exhaust systems, air intake systems, and body kits are what most of those consist of. Really no more go than the thing had stock. It just sounds and looks the part. It's the way the driver drives that's dangerous, not the car. I can say with confidence, having been involved in car clubs in the past, that you'd just be punishing a bunch of people for simply modifying their cars. The racers will still race, especially since a lot of them steal parts/cars to begin with. Such a tax would only encourage more theft.

    Idea: lets tax anyone for doing anything that we don't like!

  22. #22
    livin' the nightmare syn0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscaregg View Post
    When it comes to cars and driving, Amerikans aren't taxed halfway near enough! Anything that has the potential to allow a motor vehicle to be driven over legal highway speed limits should be taxed beyond affordability. Also, car owners under 21 years old should have a co-title to their vehicle held by their state's DMV and the car subject to immediate confiscation in the case of gross (racing, DUI, extreme speeding) moving violations.
    Watch this:

    My car is a completely stock, 2004 Hyundai Elantra. It has a 2.0 Liter Inline-4 engine with CVVT, which allows it to develop all of 138hp, and 136ft-lbs of torque. It does 0-60mph in about 8 seconds. But wait! It can do more than 120 miles an hour flat out! Let's tax me a million billion dollars because I could theoretically go faster than 75 miles an hour on the freeway!

    I bet you hate that, don't you? And my car is pretty small for North America.

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syn0n View Post
    Watch this:

    My car is a completely stock, 2004 Hyundai Elantra. It has a 2.0 Liter Inline-4 engine with CVVT, which allows it to develop all of 138hp, and 136ft-lbs of torque. It does 0-60mph in about 8 seconds. But wait! It can do more than 120 miles an hour flat out! Let's tax me a million billion dollars because I could theoretically go faster than 75 miles an hour on the freeway!

    I bet you hate that, don't you? And my car is pretty small for North America.
    OK here is an interesting question... why can your car go 120MPH, when there is not a road in the country on which you could do that speed.

    You are being "taxed" already by having bought more auto than you need. Oh sure you may need a bit more power for acceleration to get on a freeway... although anyone that has ever driven a VW van can tell you that you can still enter a freeway without a whole bunch of extra horses under the hood.

    But the bottom line is you pay for that extra power every time you fill up. Thus you are being "taxed" already.

  24. #24
    livin' the nightmare syn0n's Avatar
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    It's not the power, it's the gearing. Usually the top gear of most transmissions is fairly tall to allow economical cruising. It is the same tall gear that allows cars to go very fast. So, you know, if you're not driving like an idiot, then that same gear could be used for high speed driving is actually the economical gear for highway driving!

  25. #25
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syn0n View Post
    It's not the power, it's the gearing. Usually the top gear of most transmissions is fairly tall to allow economical cruising. It is the same tall gear that allows cars to go very fast. So, you know, if you're not driving like an idiot, then that same gear could be used for high speed driving is actually the economical gear for highway driving!
    Well in the case of the aforementioned 2004 Hyundai Elantra, it has 138HP... verses something like the old VWs which had 65HP... so yes, while the gears get you to the highest speeds, the excess power is indeed still there.

    Overdrive would also get you to a nice tall gear and is also very economical... but don't expect fast acceleration then.

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