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  1. #1
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    LA Times: 'Bicycle Brawl'

    Another newspaper trying to make money off the tired old 'bikes vs. cars' schtik. The anti-bike crowd is led by John Forester's ADC compatriot, Randal O'Toole. I guess the motorists are finally noticing the rise of bicycling in LA, led by groups like the Midnight Ridazz

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Times
    Pedal-powered transportation is good for your health — no disagreement there. But should local governments and motorists accommodate it as a means of commuting equal to cars? L.A. blogger and cyclist Will Campbell and Cato Institute Senior Fellow Randal O'Toole (also a cyclist) debate bicycle infrastructure, planning and activism.
    Bicycle Brawl

    The Bike World Outside LA

    Showing Cyclists the Money

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    Last edited by randya; 01-09-08 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    " But should local governments and motorists accommodate it as a means of commuting equal to cars? "


    Yeah.....lets let motorists decide whats best
    'Merikkaans just will not be happy until we are officially renamed
    West Calcutta.

  3. #3
    Senior Member EnigManiac's Avatar
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    This is an interesting debate.

    I take exception with Randall O'Toole's contention that cities have become bicycle-friendly by being auto-hostile. It's not that I think he's wrong. He's probably right, in fact. But, the important question is 'why shouldn't citie be auto-hostile? Auto-friendly cities are hostile to all other forms of transportation: cycling, pedestrian and even equestrian. Cities should not be about cars, they should be about people and bicycles are more people-friendly than cars. Of the 24 pedestrians killed in Toronto this past year, not one was killed by a cyclist, after all.

    The better the infrastructure for bicycles and the more-auto-hostile the environment, the more cyclists there will be and that means fewer cars, cleaner air, safer streets and better communities. Fewer cars also means that those who must drive---for there are those who have no choice---will have less-congested streets and be able to travel faster, with less stress and polluting less. Being hostile to a system that destroys is not such a bad thing.
    The slow down is accelerating

  4. #4
    ---- buzzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
    This is an interesting debate.

    I take exception with Randall O'Toole's contention that cities have become bicycle-friendly by being auto-hostile. It's not that I think he's wrong. He's probably right, in fact. But, the important question is 'why shouldn't citie be auto-hostile? Auto-friendly cities are hostile to all other forms of transportation: cycling, pedestrian and even equestrian. Cities should not be about cars, they should be about people and bicycles are more people-friendly than cars. Of the 24 pedestrians killed in Toronto this past year, not one was killed by a cyclist, after all.

    The better the infrastructure for bicycles and the more-auto-hostile the environment, the more cyclists there will be and that means fewer cars, cleaner air, safer streets and better communities. Fewer cars also means that those who must drive---for there are those who have no choice---will have less-congested streets and be able to travel faster, with less stress and polluting less. Being hostile to a system that destroys is not such a bad thing.
    the thing most hostile to the automobile is more automobiles. If you keep piling them into cities, onto roads, parking garages, streets etc they become hostile to one another.

    Just drive one to discover this. What makes you most unhappy in a car?- more cars on the road. Bikes are little more than an annoyance to an automobilist other cars are the enemy.

  5. #5
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    the thing most hostile to the automobile is more automobiles. If you keep piling them into cities, onto roads, parking garages, streets etc they become hostile to one another.

    Just drive one to discover this. What makes you most unhappy in a car?- more cars on the road. Bikes are little more than an annoyance to an automobilist other cars are the enemy.
    Yeah, but they haven't quite figured that out yet, have they... sigh.

  6. #6
    Senior Member EnigManiac's Avatar
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    A pendulum that swings one way and then the other eventually settles in the middle.
    The slow down is accelerating

  7. #7
    Senior Member Itsjustb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    the thing most hostile to the automobile is more automobiles. If you keep piling them into cities, onto roads, parking garages, streets etc they become hostile to one another.

    Just drive one to discover this. What makes you most unhappy in a car?- more cars on the road. Bikes are little more than an annoyance to an automobilist other cars are the enemy.
    I agree. What really sucks is that these unhappy drivers--unhappy because there are too many other cars around them--take this anger out on.....cyclists.
    "Everyone is entitled to an opinion" is only half-right.

    Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
    This is an interesting debate.

    I take exception with Randall O'Toole's contention that cities have become bicycle-friendly by being auto-hostile. It's not that I think he's wrong. He's probably right, in fact. But, the important question is 'why shouldn't citie be auto-hostile? Auto-friendly cities are hostile to all other forms of transportation: cycling, pedestrian and even equestrian. Cities should not be about cars, they should be about people and bicycles are more people-friendly than cars. Of the 24 pedestrians killed in Toronto this past year, not one was killed by a cyclist, after all.

    The better the infrastructure for bicycles and the more-auto-hostile the environment, the more cyclists there will be and that means fewer cars, cleaner air, safer streets and better communities. Fewer cars also means that those who must drive---for there are those who have no choice---will have less-congested streets and be able to travel faster, with less stress and polluting less. Being hostile to a system that destroys is not such a bad thing.
    You know? I grew up out in the country - wide open spaces, uncrowded roads, plenty of room to park, business all having big parking lots because EVERYBODY drove a car or pickup truck. Heck, I think most cities are ALREADY auto-hostile!!! Traffic, no place to park, and having to pay when you do find a spot, etc. I don't know if I could think of a better mode of transportation in the average city than a bicycle!
    Steel Club = BF-STL-00064

  9. #9
    I... Don't care. nekohime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpelle View Post
    You know? I grew up out in the country - wide open spaces, uncrowded roads, plenty of room to park, business all having big parking lots because EVERYBODY drove a car or pickup truck. Heck, I think most cities are ALREADY auto-hostile!!! Traffic, no place to park, and having to pay when you do find a spot, etc. I don't know if I could think of a better mode of transportation in the average city than a bicycle!
    True that, but the car-driving populace chooses to ignore it because of the "convenience" of being enclosed in their very own bubble of metal and glass.
    Wanna join my charity folding bike ride? Sign-up here!
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way :p

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