Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-09-08, 07:25 PM   #1
randya
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LA Times: 'Bicycle Brawl'

Another newspaper trying to make money off the tired old 'bikes vs. cars' schtik. The anti-bike crowd is led by John Forester's ADC compatriot, Randal O'Toole. I guess the motorists are finally noticing the rise of bicycling in LA, led by groups like the Midnight Ridazz

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Times
Pedal-powered transportation is good for your health — no disagreement there. But should local governments and motorists accommodate it as a means of commuting equal to cars? L.A. blogger and cyclist Will Campbell and Cato Institute Senior Fellow Randal O'Toole (also a cyclist) debate bicycle infrastructure, planning and activism.
Bicycle Brawl

The Bike World Outside LA

Showing Cyclists the Money

Huffy Vs. Hummer

Last edited by randya; 01-09-08 at 07:36 PM.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-08, 07:38 PM   #2
-=(8)=-
♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯
 
-=(8)=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
Posts: 7,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
" But should local governments and motorists accommodate it as a means of commuting equal to cars? "


Yeah.....lets let motorists decide whats best
'Merikkaans just will not be happy until we are officially renamed
West Calcutta.
__________________
-ADVOCACY-☜ Radical VC = Car people on bikes. Just say "NO"
-=(8)=- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-08, 08:16 PM   #3
EnigManiac
Senior Member
 
EnigManiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: BikeE AT, Firebike Bling Bling, Norco Trike (customized)
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is an interesting debate.

I take exception with Randall O'Toole's contention that cities have become bicycle-friendly by being auto-hostile. It's not that I think he's wrong. He's probably right, in fact. But, the important question is 'why shouldn't citie be auto-hostile? Auto-friendly cities are hostile to all other forms of transportation: cycling, pedestrian and even equestrian. Cities should not be about cars, they should be about people and bicycles are more people-friendly than cars. Of the 24 pedestrians killed in Toronto this past year, not one was killed by a cyclist, after all.

The better the infrastructure for bicycles and the more-auto-hostile the environment, the more cyclists there will be and that means fewer cars, cleaner air, safer streets and better communities. Fewer cars also means that those who must drive---for there are those who have no choice---will have less-congested streets and be able to travel faster, with less stress and polluting less. Being hostile to a system that destroys is not such a bad thing.
EnigManiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-08, 11:32 PM   #4
buzzman
----
 
buzzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Newton, MA
Bikes:
Posts: 4,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
This is an interesting debate.

I take exception with Randall O'Toole's contention that cities have become bicycle-friendly by being auto-hostile. It's not that I think he's wrong. He's probably right, in fact. But, the important question is 'why shouldn't citie be auto-hostile? Auto-friendly cities are hostile to all other forms of transportation: cycling, pedestrian and even equestrian. Cities should not be about cars, they should be about people and bicycles are more people-friendly than cars. Of the 24 pedestrians killed in Toronto this past year, not one was killed by a cyclist, after all.

The better the infrastructure for bicycles and the more-auto-hostile the environment, the more cyclists there will be and that means fewer cars, cleaner air, safer streets and better communities. Fewer cars also means that those who must drive---for there are those who have no choice---will have less-congested streets and be able to travel faster, with less stress and polluting less. Being hostile to a system that destroys is not such a bad thing.
the thing most hostile to the automobile is more automobiles. If you keep piling them into cities, onto roads, parking garages, streets etc they become hostile to one another.

Just drive one to discover this. What makes you most unhappy in a car?- more cars on the road. Bikes are little more than an annoyance to an automobilist other cars are the enemy.
buzzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-08, 11:39 PM   #5
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,968
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
the thing most hostile to the automobile is more automobiles. If you keep piling them into cities, onto roads, parking garages, streets etc they become hostile to one another.

Just drive one to discover this. What makes you most unhappy in a car?- more cars on the road. Bikes are little more than an annoyance to an automobilist other cars are the enemy.
Yeah, but they haven't quite figured that out yet, have they... sigh.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-08, 09:08 AM   #6
EnigManiac
Senior Member
 
EnigManiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: BikeE AT, Firebike Bling Bling, Norco Trike (customized)
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A pendulum that swings one way and then the other eventually settles in the middle.
EnigManiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-08, 01:20 PM   #7
Itsjustb
Senior Member
 
Itsjustb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse 5c, Scattante XRL
Posts: 991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
the thing most hostile to the automobile is more automobiles. If you keep piling them into cities, onto roads, parking garages, streets etc they become hostile to one another.

Just drive one to discover this. What makes you most unhappy in a car?- more cars on the road. Bikes are little more than an annoyance to an automobilist other cars are the enemy.
I agree. What really sucks is that these unhappy drivers--unhappy because there are too many other cars around them--take this anger out on.....cyclists.
__________________
"Everyone is entitled to an opinion" is only half-right.

Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.
Itsjustb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-08, 02:22 PM   #8
tpelle
Senior Member
 
tpelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kentucky
Bikes:
Posts: 1,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
This is an interesting debate.

I take exception with Randall O'Toole's contention that cities have become bicycle-friendly by being auto-hostile. It's not that I think he's wrong. He's probably right, in fact. But, the important question is 'why shouldn't citie be auto-hostile? Auto-friendly cities are hostile to all other forms of transportation: cycling, pedestrian and even equestrian. Cities should not be about cars, they should be about people and bicycles are more people-friendly than cars. Of the 24 pedestrians killed in Toronto this past year, not one was killed by a cyclist, after all.

The better the infrastructure for bicycles and the more-auto-hostile the environment, the more cyclists there will be and that means fewer cars, cleaner air, safer streets and better communities. Fewer cars also means that those who must drive---for there are those who have no choice---will have less-congested streets and be able to travel faster, with less stress and polluting less. Being hostile to a system that destroys is not such a bad thing.
You know? I grew up out in the country - wide open spaces, uncrowded roads, plenty of room to park, business all having big parking lots because EVERYBODY drove a car or pickup truck. Heck, I think most cities are ALREADY auto-hostile!!! Traffic, no place to park, and having to pay when you do find a spot, etc. I don't know if I could think of a better mode of transportation in the average city than a bicycle!
tpelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-08, 02:44 PM   #9
nekohime
I... Don't care.
 
nekohime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sunny SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpelle View Post
You know? I grew up out in the country - wide open spaces, uncrowded roads, plenty of room to park, business all having big parking lots because EVERYBODY drove a car or pickup truck. Heck, I think most cities are ALREADY auto-hostile!!! Traffic, no place to park, and having to pay when you do find a spot, etc. I don't know if I could think of a better mode of transportation in the average city than a bicycle!
True that, but the car-driving populace chooses to ignore it because of the "convenience" of being enclosed in their very own bubble of metal and glass.
__________________
Wanna join my charity folding bike ride? Sign-up here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way :p
nekohime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:36 PM.